RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (Full Version)

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kdsub -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (9/19/2012 6:13:58 PM)

I'd like to know what asshole is leaking this information...If a fair and impartial jury is expected it will be hard to find.

I would love to see a law that forbids names and evidence released except to the defense lawyers before a trial. Too many times innocent lives have been destroyed because the accused name is released before trial and when they are found innocent they are still looked upon with suspicion. And all the evidence released, sometimes out of context or incomplete, makes it impossible to get a fair unbiased jury.

Butch




Raiikun -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (9/19/2012 6:34:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I'd like to know what asshole is leaking this information...If a fair and impartial jury is expected it will be hard to find.



The State of Florida is releasing this information to the media heh. It's the law there that all evidence given in discovery be made public with a few exceptions.

Upside for George is, is that unless there's still a bombshell that the State hasn't given the defense yet, it's highly unlike a fair and impartial jury will be needed. Florida has some pretty extreme case law as far as burden of proof goes; and the existing publicly known evidence isn't sufficient to get the case to reach a jury. (Thanks to precedents in State v. Stieh and State v. Fowler etc.)




kdsub -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (9/19/2012 6:45:25 PM)

quote:

The State of Florida is releasing this information to the media heh. It's the law there that all evidence given in discovery be made public with a few exceptions.


I don't know...there is always THIS

Butch




farglebargle -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (9/20/2012 3:14:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

What *is* new in today's release though, is the crime scene drawing by W-6 (the witness who saw Trayvon on top of George right before the shooting). He notes that the guy in black is on top of the guy wearing red at each point, and in the interview describes Trayvon as having his arms outstretched after the shooting (not underneath his body).

Bah since Flikr apparently doesn't like being linked to:

http://www.talkleft.com/zimm/johndrawing.pdf


Witness 6 is one of those who has changed their testimony, right?




Raiikun -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (9/20/2012 6:22:58 AM)

Nope. Not really.




thishereboi -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (9/20/2012 6:35:10 AM)

I don't remember zimmy ever claiming that Trayvon touched the gun. Just that he thought he might be going for it (and no I have still not figured out how the kid was even supposed to know he had a gun in the first place) and that is why he felt the need to pull it. So I am not sure how dna is going to back his story or discredit it.


"Anyone else glad this is dragging out a bit? "

Not even a little bit. His family needs closure so they can go on with their lives.




farglebargle -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (9/20/2012 6:41:20 AM)

We're back to Zimmerman's cloudy perception. Can he meet the 'reasonable' requirement, given his history of psychoactive medication and poor judgement? Should O'Mara be going for an Insanity defense instead? Will Zimmerman have grounds for appeal on improper representation should O'Mara neglect to bring up his clients poor mental condition?

Tune in for answers to these and many more questions, next time, on "As The Stomach Turns..."




Raiikun -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (9/20/2012 7:03:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

We're back to Zimmerman's cloudy perception. Can he meet the 'reasonable' requirement, given his history of psychoactive medication and poor judgement? Should O'Mara be going for an Insanity defense instead? Will Zimmerman have grounds for appeal on improper representation should O'Mara neglect to bring up his clients poor mental condition?

Tune in for answers to these and many more questions, next time, on "As The Stomach Turns..."


That won't be a problem, as there are witnesses the Defense can call to tell the finder of fact that should someone be pinned to the ground, that fists become deadly weapons justifying the use of lethal force in self defense. That will make the standard of reasonableness objective and easy to see.

So it still boils down to this. The Defense seems to claim that George was pinned to the ground, struggling to get away but unable to, while taking injury and screaming for help for nearly a minute before using his firearm as a last resort. If the State cannot disprove this theory beyond and to the exclusion of all reasonable doubt, George has to be acquitted as a matter of Florida law.




tazzygirl -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (9/20/2012 8:01:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I don't remember zimmy ever claiming that Trayvon touched the gun. Just that he thought he might be going for it (and no I have still not figured out how the kid was even supposed to know he had a gun in the first place) and that is why he felt the need to pull it. So I am not sure how dna is going to back his story or discredit it.


"Anyone else glad this is dragging out a bit? "

Not even a little bit. His family needs closure so they can go on with their lives.


I agree the family does. But better to have all the facts first, all the questions answered before doing so, no?




vincentML -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (9/20/2012 8:19:40 AM)

quote:

I don't remember zimmy ever claiming that Trayvon touched the gun. Just that he thought he might be going for it (and no I have still not figured out how the kid was even supposed to know he had a gun in the first place) and that is why he felt the need to pull it. So I am not sure how dna is going to back his story or discredit it.


In his walk through at the scene with the police which was televised the Zimmer said his jacket fell open and the gun holster was exposed.




Politesub53 -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (9/20/2012 11:35:28 AM)

I see the defence has already dropped the "Stand your ground notion"




BamaD -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (9/20/2012 1:09:01 PM)

Yes, as soon as Zimmerman was arrested.




Raiikun -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (9/20/2012 3:35:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

I see the defence has already dropped the "Stand your ground notion"


Anyone who has been following the case closely probably knows that George's attorney has said back in April that he feels the SYG statute is an absurd statute and that the traditional self defense statute is sufficient. More recently he's pointed out that calling it SYG in this case is misleading, because George had no opportunity to "stand his ground" or retreat, when pinned down to the ground on his back after having his nose broken and unable to get away.




farglebargle -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (9/20/2012 4:13:01 PM)

All of which is irrelevant. Since Zimmerman provoked the confrontation, he doesn't get any immunity. If Zimmerman didn't want to cause trouble that night, he had plenty of opportunity to avoid causing the death of an innocent kid.




Politesub53 -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (9/20/2012 4:22:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Yes, as soon as Zimmerman was arrested.



Really....I recall many of you stating just that.... Zimmerman was standing his ground whah whah whah.




Raiikun -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (9/20/2012 6:41:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

All of which is irrelevant. Since Zimmerman provoked the confrontation, he doesn't get any immunity. If Zimmerman didn't want to cause trouble that night, he had plenty of opportunity to avoid causing the death of an innocent kid.


There is no proof that George provoked the confrontation. Unless George's claim that he was headed back to his vehicle when Martin approached and hit him can be proven wrong beyond a reasonable doubt, George cannot be the aggressor as a matter of Florida law. Also Florida law says the aggressor is the one who provokes the use of force against him contemporaneously with the use of force against him, therefore the following on the NEN call has no legal relevance to making George the aggressor. And even if Deedee's claim is correct and admissible, "What are you doing around here?" is not an indication of intent to assault, and does not make George the aggressor.

And since it's not in dispute that the encounter started right where George says it did, about 30 seconds away from his vehicle at a normal pace, in a spot that proved Martin had to come back for the encounter again, there's next to zero chance of George being the aggressor.

There's still nothing to indicate that George had any intention beyond trying to assist Police with someone he thought was suspicious. Getting out of the vehicle in direct response to being asked where Trayvon ran might have been misguided, but it wasn't illegal. And there's zero evidence at all of anything other than Trayvon throwing the first punch.




BamaD -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (9/20/2012 6:44:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Yes, as soon as Zimmerman was arrested.



Really....I recall many of you stating just that.... Zimmerman was standing his ground whah whah whah.

Then you remember that I said all along that both thought they were defending themselves.




DaddySatyr -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (9/20/2012 6:45:24 PM)

Doesn't this belong in "All Things Zimmerman"?




BamaD -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (9/20/2012 6:50:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Doesn't this belong in "All Things Zimmerman"?

Yes but that thread was shut down due to excessive hostility.




Raiikun -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (9/20/2012 6:51:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Doesn't this belong in "All Things Zimmerman"?


That thread was deleted ages ago, when it got to the point that I was having to report personal attacks on what seemed like a daily basis.




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