quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

Its interesting to see how you attack anyone who disagrees with you personally yet you are trolling me over criticising a prolific Israeli-basher on here trying to school an overt anti-Semite! Thats surprising even by your standards. You are lying over what Tweak said, its interesting how you support such an individual knowing full well what she has done.

quote:

There are innumerable valid reasons to justify criticism of Israeli policy and behaviour in Occupied Palestine. Your post mentioned some of these reasons. Why not stick to those valid reasons? Bringing up the Holocaust, particularly in the loose, sloppy language your first post displayed, just plays into the hands of the Zionist lobby, who like nothing better than to (falsely) frame the discussion of Occupied Palestine in terms of anti-Semitism.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4254825

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Trying to associate such rubbish with the Palestinian cause does a lot of harm to that cause and plays straight into the hands of the Zionists. I hope that you reconsider your position before you do any more damage.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4254859

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In the end it's up to you of course. You need to decide which message you want to convey and then convey it clearly and precisely. The terms you currently use are misleading and counter-productive, if you don't mind my saying so.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4254873

Yet again I point out that we are not talking about a blogger. This is a Muslim man openly talking about the hatred embedded within the British Islamic community. It is a similar phenomenon elsewhere http://www.thecommentator.com/article/1724/jewish_communities_under_threat_in_malmo_sweden_ in Europe as another Muslim writer points out. Its simply an analogue of the Islamic world http://blogs.jpost.com/content/reactions-toulouse-murderer-algeria as Muslim Algerian journalist of repute Omar Dakhane has pointed out.

BTW I don't object to the thread - you're the one trying to turn the heat up with personal comments - your modus operandi. T'Ozzy hasn't said anything she hasn't said a thousand times already, and no doubt will say a thousand times again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
Its interesting to see how you attack anyone who disagrees with you personally yet you are trolling me over criticising a prolific Israeli-basher on here trying to school an overt anti-Semite! Thats surprising even by your standards. You are lying over what Tweak said, its interesting how you support such an individual knowing full well what she has done.

quote:

There are innumerable valid reasons to justify criticism of Israeli policy and behaviour in Occupied Palestine. Your post mentioned some of these reasons. Why not stick to those valid reasons? Bringing up the Holocaust, particularly in the loose, sloppy language your first post displayed, just plays into the hands of the Zionist lobby, who like nothing better than to (falsely) frame the discussion of Occupied Palestine in terms of anti-Semitism.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4254825

quote:

Trying to associate such rubbish with the Palestinian cause does a lot of harm to that cause and plays straight into the hands of the Zionists. I hope that you reconsider your position before you do any more damage.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4254859

quote:

In the end it's up to you of course. You need to decide which message you want to convey and then convey it clearly and precisely. The terms you currently use are misleading and counter-productive, if you don't mind my saying so.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4254873

Yet again I point out that we are not talking about a blogger. This is a Muslim man openly talking about the hatred embedded within the British Islamic community. It is a similar phenomenon elsewhere http://www.thecommentator.com/article/1724/jewish_communities_under_threat_in_malmo_sweden_ in Europe as another Muslim writer points out. Its simply an analogue of the Islamic world http://blogs.jpost.com/content/reactions-toulouse-murderer-algeria as Muslim Algerian journalist of repute Omar Dakhane has pointed out.

BTW I don't object to the thread - you're the one trying to turn the heat up with personal comments - your modus operandi. T'Ozzy hasn't said anything she hasn't said a thousand times already, and no doubt will say a thousand times again.

Anax, you still havent shown anything to prove your first post, let alone discussed the topic at hand. You made the remark in your first post about "comedy" and then accuse me of personal attacks.

Incidentally Tweaks is 100% correct, denying the holocaust is abhorent, Ive said that many times to people who have done so. She is also right that using it in debate doesnt help the Palestinian cause.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
The question might better be put as : On what basis can Israel live in peace and harmony with its neighbours? The Palestinians have recognised the existence of Israel since at least 1993 (the Oslo Accords). Even Hamas has been hinting strongly that it can live with a Palestinian State based on the 1967 borders.

As usual you are lying. The Palestinian National Covenant, the charter under which the PLO operates, remains unamended and still calls for the destruction of Israel and the killing of Jews world wide. The Hamas charter remains the profoundly anti semitic document it has always been, calling for genocide of the Jewish people worldwide and subscribing to a wide range of of anti Jewish conspiracy theories.

As usual you are dead wrong.
"The Hamas movement is ready to recognize agreements signed with Israel, and in fact recognize Israel, but only within the '67 borders, senior Hamas member Khaled Suleiman said Wednesday.

According to Suleiman, the movement will be ready to accept a Palestinian state inside the '67 borders and will not operate to thwart diplomatic negotiations held by Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas."
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3249568,00.html

That's just one report - there are many more reports confirming this position. And it comes from an Israeli source too.

I look forward to your apology for wrongly calling me a liar - more in hope than anticipation. But go on, do the right thing for once in your life and surprise me - apologise.

Hamas is still killing Jews and is still spreading the worst anti semitic hate imaginable, including but not limited to the Blood Libel and the Protocols. To claim otherwise is a lie.

quote:

Anaxagoras
After he waded in on Page 3 the quotes demonstrate she was far more concerned about remarks that would be embarassing to the Palestinian cause than the actual anti-Semitism he so clearly exuded.

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quote:


Well if you want to know, i still deny the Holocaust.

tweakabelle
I'm sad and sorry to hear that. That is where you and I part company.

I don't want anything to do with any one who engages in such crass anti-Semitism. I find it deplorable.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
The question might better be put as : On what basis can Israel live in peace and harmony with its neighbours? The Palestinians have recognised the existence of Israel since at least 1993 (the Oslo Accords). Even Hamas has been hinting strongly that it can live with a Palestinian State based on the 1967 borders.

As usual you are lying. The Palestinian National Covenant, the charter under which the PLO operates, remains unamended and still calls for the destruction of Israel and the killing of Jews world wide. The Hamas charter remains the profoundly anti semitic document it has always been, calling for genocide of the Jewish people worldwide and subscribing to a wide range of of anti Jewish conspiracy theories.

As usual you are dead wrong.
"The Hamas movement is ready to recognize agreements signed with Israel, and in fact recognize Israel, but only within the '67 borders, senior Hamas member Khaled Suleiman said Wednesday.

According to Suleiman, the movement will be ready to accept a Palestinian state inside the '67 borders and will not operate to thwart diplomatic negotiations held by Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas."
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3249568,00.html

That's just one report - there are many more reports confirming this position. And it comes from an Israeli source too.

I look forward to your apology for wrongly calling me a liar - more in hope than anticipation. But go on, do the right thing for once in your life and surprise me - apologise.

Hamas is still killing Jews and is still spreading the worst anti semitic hate imaginable, including but not limited to the Blood Libel and the Protocols. To claim otherwise is a lie.

My assertion was that:
"Even Hamas has been hinting strongly that it can live with a Palestinian State based on the 1967 borders"
You claimed that I was "lying".
I produced evidence to prove my assertion was correct, and asked you to apologise for falsely and maliciously calling me a liar.
You haven't produce any evidence to support your claims. You haven't apologised.
Stop trying to weasel your way out of your self-created hole and apologise if you have any decency.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Tweaks, he doesnt understand any of it. Not your points re the holocaust, not mine about the blogger, none of it. He will be hard pressed to find anything about Kasim Hafeez in the UK media, although he does get a mention on Stormfronts web site. I am afraid he will just continue his passive agressive attacks and hope no one notices his head is still firmly jammed where I said it was.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Tweaks, he doesnt understand any of it. Not your points re the holocaust, not mine about the blogger, none of it. He will be hard pressed to find anything about Kasim Hafeez in the UK media, although he does get a mention on Stormfronts web site. I am afraid he will just continue his passive agressive attacks and hope no one notices his head is still firmly jammed where I said it was.

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As the attitude they display is a true reflection of Israeli policy in Occupied Palestine, it's easy to understand why the ME conflict is so intractable isn't it? As it's pointless try to reason with such people, I'm going to leave them to stew in their own personalised hells, which is the only way I can describe the place where their heads are jammed.

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I do indeed understand it. Tweaks, who BTW I don't respond to anymore because she derails threads on Israel with tons of crap, did not condemn his initial statement

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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I do indeed understand it. Tweaks, who BTW I don't respond to anymore because she derails threads on Israel with tons of crap, did not condemn his initial statement

Your ad hominem attacks are what derail this thread. The thread is about Israel, not about you.

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ROFL I have hardly mentioned myself. She was the one who started teaching a very overt anti-Semite how better to conduct himself. You clearly agree with her and praise her frequently. That's fine, your's is a choice based on your own personal views on Israel but don't expect others to be silent if they disagree.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

As the attitude they display is a true reflection of Israeli policy in Occupied Palestine, it's easy to understand why the ME conflict is so intractable isn't it? As it's pointless try to reason with such people, I'm going to leave them to stew in their own personalised hells, which is the only way I can describe the place where their heads are jammed.

Let me segue to this interesting article which points out the disarray among the Israeli pols due to the changes occurring amongst their neighbors. The crisis is within Israel itself because she cannot identify the changes and new threats that have arisen and because its military deterrant may not offer the security it did in the past. As a consequence Netanyahu is forced to focus upon the one "problem" that lends itself to military action ~ nuclear Iran. In the meanwhile the PA is reluctant to continue talks as it observes the spread of Arab insurgency in the area. A good read I think.
Published with permission of Stratfor

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If the thesis is valid (and I stress the 'If'), it's odd that the possibility of peace with the Palestinians is dismissed by the authors. While they explain their reasons for doing so, they omitted to consider the game-breaking possibilities offered by a just and lasting peace treaty. It would certainly be one way for Israel to regain the initiative and escape from the strategic torpor the author describes.

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There was no doubt , and has been proven, that the Arab coalition, vastly outnumbering Israel, was massing to attack. Only a preemptive strike saved Israel from annihilation.

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Bottom line Israel can not and will not agree to go back to those borders. So if there is to be peace that demand will need to be altered in some way.

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The emergence of insurrectionist warfare as developed in Afghanistan, Somolia, and Iraq make borders meaningless as lines of defense. Again, imo.

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

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The emergence of insurrectionist warfare as developed in Afghanistan, Somolia, and Iraq make borders meaningless as lines of defense. Again, imo.

Vince I don’t believe an insurgency can operate inside Israel…that would be like saying an Arab insurgency could work in Missouri. Israel has seen this possibility for years and has isolated Arabs living in country.

If Israel is to be totally defeated it will come from conventional warfare…at least in my opinion.

Butch

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ROFL I have hardly mentioned myself. She was the one who started teaching a very overt anti-Semite how better to conduct himself. You clearly agree with her and praise her frequently. That's fine, your's is a choice based on your own personal views on Israel but don't expect others to be silent if they disagree.

I don't have such expectations. Feel free to disagree on point anytime. If you say Hamas wishes to destroy Israel and I say the Islamists see Israel as a usurper of their land so wtf do you expect, then we have the basis for a disagreement and disagreements are fine. But why all this he said/she said bullshit? Then this person and that person feel the need for self-justification and around it goes. It just gets in the way of the flow of ideas that pertain to the thread and is a waste of bandwidth, imo.

What do you think of the article I posted above? Looks like Israel is in a terrible pickle.