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RE: Israel - 10/2/2012 2:39:45 AM

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quote:

Well if you want to know, i still deny the Holocaust.

I'm sad and sorry to hear that. That is where you and I part company.

I don't want anything to do with any one who engages in such crass anti-Semitism. I find it deplorable.

Trying to associate such rubbish with the Palestinian cause does a lot of harm to that cause and plays straight into the hands of the Zionists. I hope that you reconsider your position before you do any more damage.

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(in reply to ermood)

RE: Israel - 10/2/2012 2:48:30 AM

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quote:

I'm sad and sorry to hear that. That is where you and I part company.

I don't want anything to do with any one who engages in such crass anti-Semitism. I find it deplorable.

Trying to associate such rubbish with the Palestinian cause does a lot of harm to that cause and plays straight into the hands of the Zionists. I hope that you reconsider your position before you do any more damage.

I only deny it for the fact that its pure racism, i do not deny the fact that millions of Jews where systematicly executed by the Nazi's.

But everyone has a different opinion and the right to tell it;)

(in reply to tweakabelle)

RE: Israel - 10/2/2012 3:42:58 AM

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quote:

I only deny it for the fact that its pure racism, i do not deny the fact that millions of Jews where systematicly executed by the Nazi's.

But everyone has a different opinion and the right to tell it;)

It's not accurate to describe this position as "denying the Holocaust". This will mislead most people. Most people will interpret "denying the Holocaust" as denying the entire event - all the systematic murders of millions of Jews, gypsies, gays, dissenters and others. You will be misunderstood and people will call you a racist and an anti-Semite.

A more accurate rendition of your position is that you deny that any single group was the only or exclusive target of the Nazis. It is important to make this clear - otherwise your message will get lost in a negative reaction.

In the end it's up to you of course. You need to decide which message you want to convey and then convey it clearly and precisely. The terms you currently use are misleading and counter-productive, if you don't mind my saying so.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 10/2/2012 3:51:22 AM >

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(in reply to ermood)

RE: Israel - 10/2/2012 3:53:00 AM

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quote:

It's not accurate to describe this position as "denying the Holocaust". This will mislead most people. Most people will interpret "denying the Holocaust" as denying the entire event - all the systematic murders of millions of Jews, gypsies, gays, dissenters and others. You will be misunderstood and people will call you a racist and an anti-Semite.

A more accurate rendition of your position is that you deny that any single group was the only or exclusive target of the Nazis. It is important to make this clear - otherwise your message lost in a negative reaction.

In the end it's up to you of course. You need to decide which message you want to convey and then convey it clearly and precisely. The terms you currently use are counter-productive, if you don't mind my saying so.

I have to say, you've got a point here.... i will think about it;)

(in reply to tweakabelle)

RE: Israel - 10/2/2012 4:39:28 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
Begs a question. If Israel is that Israel of Biblical prophecy, of what need has Israel of earthly big brother security?

This in turn begs a question. If the Bible is reliable where are all the unicorns?

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: Israel - 10/2/2012 6:47:41 AM

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From: Albany, NY
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Noah INTENTIONALLY told them The Ark was leaving 2 hours later than he pulled out, just to fuck the unicorns over.

Bastard.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to GotSteel)

RE: Israel - 10/2/2012 7:15:02 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ermood

Well my friend, i'm not from Holland... if you look at it that way i'm from Limburg;)

Holland is a province.... and you call me stupid? the countrie is named The Netherlands.

My bad.......It`s all double Dutch to me ;)

quote:

And i'm just telling the right thing, recognizing the Holocaust is just racism, and tell me.... what is Isreal creating in Palastine? the same thing as what they use as excuse to attack the Palestinians...

Anyone who knows history knows it was just people of a Jewish background muredered in the camps, but there is no denying the majority were Jewish.

If you are just moaning about the word holocaust, you may have a tiny fraction of a valid point. The whole episode was wider than that, but only just.

(in reply to ermood)

RE: Israel - 10/2/2012 8:33:40 AM

fucktoyprincess

Posts: 2337
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ermood

quote:

It's not accurate to describe this position as "denying the Holocaust". This will mislead most people. Most people will interpret "denying the Holocaust" as denying the entire event - all the systematic murders of millions of Jews, gypsies, gays, dissenters and others. You will be misunderstood and people will call you a racist and an anti-Semite.

A more accurate rendition of your position is that you deny that any single group was the only or exclusive target of the Nazis. It is important to make this clear - otherwise your message lost in a negative reaction.

In the end it's up to you of course. You need to decide which message you want to convey and then convey it clearly and precisely. The terms you currently use are counter-productive, if you don't mind my saying so.

I have to say, you've got a point here.... i will think about it;)

Yes, ermood, if your views are as you present them above, I would take greater care in how you express these sentiments in English because the word "deny" as explained accurately by tweakabelle implies you do not think it happened at all. Just be careful, because I think your argument is a nuanced one that many on these boards would actually agree with.

Genocide of peoples has been occurring since the beginning of time whether under the guise of "tribe", "religion", "ethnicity", you name it. And all genocide is inherently evil and wrong. And yes, I would disagree with anyone who somehow feels that any particular genocide is of greater evil than any other. And let us be reminded that some genocides in history were actually successful. There are some peoples who are no longer on the face of the planet, at all.

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~ ftp

(in reply to ermood)

RE: Israel - 10/2/2012 9:27:05 AM

kdsub

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quote:

but there is no denying the majority were Jewish

I was taught that the Jews were the single largest group by far murdered in the death camps. Poles about half as many as Jews and various other groups 250,000 down to a few thousand of Gypsies...mentally ill...homosexuals...etc.

BUT

Russia and more specifically the Ukraine suffered nearly as many deaths as Jews if not more but not in death camps... mostly slave labor and starvation.

To say we are not taught that others besides Jews were murdered is just not true. Most of the time however when speaking of the holocaust we do use the Jews simply because they were the most persecuted.

And in this age and discussion we are usually talking of Jews and their Holocaust but not denying others.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/2/2012 9:29:35 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Politesub53)

RE: Israel - 10/2/2012 9:43:22 AM

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From: Eire
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KD, is it just me or have others witnessed the comedy of the last few pages, where the in-house demoniser of all things Israeli has been trying to disuade an outright anti-Semite, who more than coincidentally is an Israeli-basher, from expressions of said hatred? What was the reason exactly? Um... because it apparently deflects from the MAJOR issue of the Palestinian cause: "just plays into the hands of the Zionist lobby, who like nothing better than to (falsely) frame the discussion of Occupied Palestine in terms of anti-Semitism." Oh deary, what an inconvenience. Lets all whitewash an underlying cause (albeit indeed not an exclusive one) of the movement because it might be a wee bit embarrassing...

< Message edited by Anaxagoras -- 10/2/2012 9:45:52 AM >

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"That woman, as nature has created her, and man at present is educating her, is man's enemy. She can only be his slave or his despot, but never his companion." (Venus in Furs)

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Israel - 10/2/2012 9:59:02 AM

kdsub

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Joined: 8/16/2007
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Heaven forbid…not more socks…lol

I do hear ya but maybe too the sting of being called racists has made said poster reevaluate and make attempts to show us we were wrong.

I do hope this is the case and we will see.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Anaxagoras)

RE: Israel - 10/2/2012 10:00:54 AM

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Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

KD, is it just me or have others witnessed the comedy of the last few pages, where the in-house demoniser of all things Israeli has been trying to disuade an outright anti-Semite, who more than coincidentally is an Israeli-basher, from expressions of said hatred? What was the reason exactly? Um... because it apparently deflects from the MAJOR issue of the Palestinian cause: "just plays into the hands of the Zionist lobby, who like nothing better than to (falsely) frame the discussion of Occupied Palestine in terms of anti-Semitism." Oh deary, what an inconvenience. Lets all whitewash an underlying cause (albeit indeed not an exclusive one) of the movement because it might be a wee bit embarrassing...

Yes . . . it is just you

(in reply to Anaxagoras)

RE: Israel - 10/2/2012 10:11:27 AM

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Joined: 5/9/2009
From: Eire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
KD, is it just me or have others witnessed the comedy of the last few pages, where the in-house demoniser of all things Israeli has been trying to disuade an outright anti-Semite, who more than coincidentally is an Israeli-basher, from expressions of said hatred? What was the reason exactly? Um... because it apparently deflects from the MAJOR issue of the Palestinian cause: "just plays into the hands of the Zionist lobby, who like nothing better than to (falsely) frame the discussion of Occupied Palestine in terms of anti-Semitism." Oh deary, what an inconvenience. Lets all whitewash an underlying cause (albeit indeed not an exclusive one) of the movement because it might be a wee bit embarrassing...

Yes . . . it is just you

Ah Vincenzo, care to educate and entertain us some more with your expert knowledge of the Middle East?

_____________________________

"That woman, as nature has created her, and man at present is educating her, is man's enemy. She can only be his slave or his despot, but never his companion." (Venus in Furs)

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: Israel - 10/2/2012 10:17:18 AM

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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

Ah Vincenzo, care to educate and entertain us some more with your expert knowledge of the Middle East?

Sarcasm is often the sound of a stick beating against an empty steel drum. If I expressed errors in what I have written I would be pleased to have them corrected.

(in reply to Anaxagoras)

RE: Israel - 10/2/2012 10:31:31 AM

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Joined: 5/9/2009
From: Eire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Ah Vincenzo, care to educate and entertain us some more with your expert knowledge of the Middle East?

Sarcasm is often the sound of a stick beating against an empty steel drum. If I expressed errors in what I have written I would be pleased to have them corrected.

Well Vincenzo you have your deeply held beliefs which I sincerely doubt reason could influence but thats OK, you're entitled to them and to express them. I'm not here to set the world to rights, much as you guys need it!

BTW I have long enjoyed the sound of the steel drum...

< Message edited by Anaxagoras -- 10/2/2012 10:45:46 AM >

_____________________________

"That woman, as nature has created her, and man at present is educating her, is man's enemy. She can only be his slave or his despot, but never his companion." (Venus in Furs)

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: Israel - 10/2/2012 10:52:01 AM

Posts: 3086
Joined: 5/9/2009
From: Eire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Heaven forbid…not more socks…lol

I do hear ya but maybe too the sting of being called racists has made said poster reevaluate and make attempts to show us we were wrong.

I do hope this is the case and we will see.

Butch

To be honest I doubt it but we can all live in hope! Indeed said poster brought up the far-right notion of the Zio-lobby, as if these ebil folks truly control the US, and would be using the ammo gained from the utterances of an anonymous dope-smoking dead-beat on a D/s forum to discredit the Palestinian movement! Now thats a special kind of paranoia...

_____________________________

"That woman, as nature has created her, and man at present is educating her, is man's enemy. She can only be his slave or his despot, but never his companion." (Venus in Furs)

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Israel - 10/2/2012 12:20:30 PM

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Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

KD, is it just me or have others witnessed the comedy of the last few pages, where the in-house demoniser of all things Israeli has been trying to disuade an outright anti-Semite, who more than coincidentally is an Israeli-basher, from expressions of said hatred? What was the reason exactly? Um... because it apparently deflects from the MAJOR issue of the Palestinian cause: "just plays into the hands of the Zionist lobby, who like nothing better than to (falsely) frame the discussion of Occupied Palestine in terms of anti-Semitism." Oh deary, what an inconvenience. Lets all whitewash an underlying cause (albeit indeed not an exclusive one) of the movement because it might be a wee bit embarrassing...

No Anax.....It really is just you. Tweaks has made herself clear on the Palestinian issue, as have I, on many occassions.

You choose, in your infinite wisdom, or in this case lack there of, not to see what people are actually saying, since it doesnt fit into your argument.

(in reply to Anaxagoras)

RE: Israel - 10/2/2012 1:02:28 PM

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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Ah Vincenzo, care to educate and entertain us some more with your expert knowledge of the Middle East?

Sarcasm is often the sound of a stick beating against an empty steel drum. If I expressed errors in what I have written I would be pleased to have them corrected.

Well Vincenzo you have your deeply held beliefs which I sincerely doubt reason could influence but thats OK, you're entitled to them and to express them. I'm not here to set the world to rights, much as you guys need it! BTW I have long enjoyed the sound of the steel drum...

I thought you fashioned yourself after a great teacher of inquiry, Anax. Sad that you shun an invitation from this humble student. Must one conclude the hollow drum is content to listen only to the cacaphony of its own internal frequencies?

< Message edited by vincentML -- 10/2/2012 1:22:32 PM >

(in reply to Anaxagoras)

RE: Israel - 10/2/2012 2:18:44 PM

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Joined: 5/9/2009
From: Eire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
No Anax.....It really is just you. Tweaks has made herself clear on the Palestinian issue, as have I, on many occassions.

You choose, in your infinite wisdom, or in this case lack there of, not to see what people are actually saying, since it doesnt fit into your argument.

I see what she was saying alright: an outright anti-Semite (e.g. "the "Jews" in Israel aren't Jews but just filty Zionists") was repeatedly advised on how best to conduct himself for the Palestinian cause, and BTW another appears to agree with what I was saying http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4255095 so it would seem your blindness is more than merely metaphorical.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
I thought you fashioned yourself after a great teacher of inquiry, Anax. Sad that you shun an invitation from this humble student. Must one conclude the hollow drum is content to listen only to the cacaphony of its own internal frequencies?

Would a single drum create a cacaphony?

BTW some dispute Anaxagoras was the teacher of Pericles but "humble" is certainly the right word so it seems you are on the right track!

_____________________________

"That woman, as nature has created her, and man at present is educating her, is man's enemy. She can only be his slave or his despot, but never his companion." (Venus in Furs)

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: Israel - 10/2/2012 2:21:42 PM

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Joined: 9/20/2012
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quote:

My bad.......It`s all double Dutch to me ;)

Well if i where you i would not say that in The Netherlands;) only the people of North and South Holland (and some foolish people that aren't from Holland) accepting the word Holland as its refering to The Netherlands;) people from other provinces would get angry on you for saying Holland:) especially the people from my province and the people from the province called Friesland.

(in reply to Politesub53)

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