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RE: A "Retard" Answers Ann Coulter - 10/26/2012 7:18:36 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

So can I be pro-choice about slavery?


Yes, you can. You can't engage in actual (non-consensual) slavery but you can advocate for it all you want. Hell, there are times when I think it would be a good idea to reduce all women to slavery. Us guys could get our homes cleaned, our meals cooked and our poles waxed without having to put up with the usual whinny female bullshit about rights and fairness and blah, blah, blah.

Then I have my orgasm and return to the more social enlightened version of me... for a little while.



quote:

They are both human lives.


I actually agree with you on this. Although I remain pro-choice, I don't accept all the rhetoric about "just a fetus" or "non-viable." It is all just a bunch of blather to cover up the unpleasant fact about what abortion really is.

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RE: A "Retard" Answers Ann Coulter - 10/26/2012 8:01:34 AM   
Aswad


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ORIGINAL: Marc2b

It is all just a bunch of blather to cover up the unpleasant fact about what abortion really is.


... terminating life-support?

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RE: A "Retard" Answers Ann Coulter - 10/26/2012 8:23:17 AM   
Marc2b


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... terminating life-support?


No, that would be killing the mother.

Abortion is the killing of a human being. Trying to pretend otherwise is disingenuous. We should be honest and admit that.

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RE: A "Retard" Answers Ann Coulter - 10/26/2012 8:24:41 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

... terminating life-support?


No, that would be killing the mother.

Abortion is the killing of a human being. Trying to pretend otherwise is disingenuous. We should be honest and admit that.

When is it a human?
Are we going by the definition of medical science or are we going to go by the words of a 5th century monk?

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RE: A "Retard" Answers Ann Coulter - 10/26/2012 8:38:30 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

When is it a human?
Are we going by the definition of medical science or are we going to go by the words of a 5th century monk?


When the sperm unites with the egg. At that point everything that is needed to be a human is there.

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RE: A "Retard" Answers Ann Coulter - 10/26/2012 8:44:31 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

When is it a human?
Are we going by the definition of medical science or are we going to go by the words of a 5th century monk?


When the sperm unites with the egg. At that point everything that is needed to be a human is there.

Everything needed to be a human is in every cell in our body.

An interesting quandary would be a wart or a cancer. Everything needed to be a human is in the nucleus of every single cell of that tissue. Is it immoral to remove and destroy it?

Even the early Christians claimed that it wasn't a human until "Quickening".
Jews held that it wasn't human until birth.
To complete the Abrahamic Troika, Islamics hold that a fetus isn't human until about 60-90 days.
This definition of a "human at conception" came from a 5th century monk who was basically talking out his ass with absolutely no scripture to back him up.

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RE: A "Retard" Answers Ann Coulter - 10/26/2012 9:44:21 AM   
igor2003


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

When is it a human?
Are we going by the definition of medical science or are we going to go by the words of a 5th century monk?


When the sperm unites with the egg. At that point everything that is needed to be a human is there.


The humans that I know have circulatory systems, lungs, brains (though they are often not used), and many other various and assorted organs and characteristics. A fertilized egg has none of those things. The only thing that a fertilized egg has is the "potential" to become a human.

Is a person in law school a lawyer? No, but that person has the "potential" to become a lawyer.

Whether you are talking about fertilized eggs, or law students, or any of millions of other possibilities, the "potential to be" is not the same as "being".



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RE: A "Retard" Answers Ann Coulter - 10/26/2012 9:49:43 AM   
DomYngBlk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

When is it a human?
Are we going by the definition of medical science or are we going to go by the words of a 5th century monk?


When the sperm unites with the egg. At that point everything that is needed to be a human is there.


Slippery slope. Then a miscarriage is murder as well....As would be losing a fertilized egg for any number of reasons.....Say you have a fender bender with a newly inpregnated woman. The Driver gets charged with first degree murder and the mother gets charged with manslaughter?

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RE: A "Retard" Answers Ann Coulter - 10/26/2012 11:26:00 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

Everything needed to be a human is in every cell in our body.

An interesting quandary would be a wart or a cancer. Everything needed to be a human is in the nucleus of every single cell of that tissue. Is it immoral to remove and destroy it?

Even the early Christians claimed that it wasn't a human until "Quickening".
Jews held that it wasn't human until birth.
To complete the Abrahamic Troika, Islamics hold that a fetus isn't human until about 60-90 days.
This definition of a "human at conception" came from a 5th century monk who was basically talking out his ass with absolutely no scripture to back him up.


A single stomach cell or a wart is not a human on its own because they can never be more than what they already are. A fertilized egg can. The only difference between a fertilized egg and you and me is what stage of our lives we are at.

I really don't care what anyone's scripture says on the matter. Scripture has never been very good at conveying reality. Scripture tells us that an invisible magic man lives in the sky... but I ain't buying it.

Nor do I care what some 5th century monk has to say on the matter. Did they even know about sperm cells and eggs in the fifth century?

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RE: A "Retard" Answers Ann Coulter - 10/26/2012 11:32:49 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

Everything needed to be a human is in every cell in our body.

An interesting quandary would be a wart or a cancer. Everything needed to be a human is in the nucleus of every single cell of that tissue. Is it immoral to remove and destroy it?

Even the early Christians claimed that it wasn't a human until "Quickening".
Jews held that it wasn't human until birth.
To complete the Abrahamic Troika, Islamics hold that a fetus isn't human until about 60-90 days.
This definition of a "human at conception" came from a 5th century monk who was basically talking out his ass with absolutely no scripture to back him up.


A single stomach cell or a wart is not a human on its own because they can never be more than what they already are. A fertilized egg can. The only difference between a fertilized egg and you and me is what stage of our lives we are at.

I really don't care what anyone's scripture says on the matter. Scripture has never been very good at conveying reality. Scripture tells us that an invisible magic man lives in the sky... but I ain't buying it.

Nor do I care what some 5th century monk has to say on the matter. Did they even know about sperm cells and eggs in the fifth century?

They knew the term conception and they had discovered that sex and the release of a man's sperm into the womb was the key to pregnancy. Early cultures had various barrier methods and/or used coitus interruptus as birth control for millenia.
You're missing the point. With modern technology, EVERY HUMAN CELL with the exception of a red blood cell can become a human but guess what? It can't do it on its own. it requires shelter, nutrients and the right conditions.
A fertilized egg can't become a human on its own either. It requires, you guessed it, shelter, nutrients and the right conditions.

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RE: A "Retard" Answers Ann Coulter - 10/26/2012 11:33:54 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

A single stomach cell or a wart is not a human on its own

Neither is a embryo/fetus, its inside a woman for a reason.
it cannot survive without the mother until full development.
I would rather lay an egg...than go thru another pregnancy


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RE: A "Retard" Answers Ann Coulter - 10/26/2012 11:39:44 AM   
Marc2b


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The humans that I know have circulatory systems, lungs, brains (though they are often not used), and many other various and assorted organs and characteristics. A fertilized egg has none of those things. The only thing that a fertilized egg has is the "potential" to become a human.

Is a person in law school a lawyer? No, but that person has the "potential" to become a lawyer.

Whether you are talking about fertilized eggs, or law students, or any of millions of other possibilities, the "potential to be" is not the same as "being".


How many humans inside the womb do you know?

Just because the humans that you know have things like lungs and circulatory systems doesn't mean that those things are necessary to be human. If you had grown up knowing only Caucasian people, would that mean that only Caucasian people were human? Would that mean that all non-Caucasian people were not human? People are using arbitrary definitions in order to exclude the unborn from a definition of being human that doesn't fit those definitions (for the purposes of justifying abortion). What differentiates one organism from another is, ultimately, its DNA. From the moment that the sperm cell enters the egg, all the DNA says "human." To pick any other point in that organisms lifetime makes no sense.

< Message edited by Marc2b -- 10/26/2012 11:46:26 AM >

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RE: A "Retard" Answers Ann Coulter - 10/26/2012 11:41:34 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

They knew the term conception and they had discovered that sex and the release of a man's sperm into the womb was the key to pregnancy. Early cultures had various barrier methods and/or used coitus interruptus as birth control for millenia.
You're missing the point. With modern technology, EVERY HUMAN CELL with the exception of a red blood cell can become a human but guess what? It can't do it on its own. it requires shelter, nutrients and the right conditions.
A fertilized egg can't become a human on its own either. It requires, you guessed it, shelter, nutrients and the right conditions.


You and I require shelter, nutrients and the right conditions... does that mean we are not human?

< Message edited by Marc2b -- 10/26/2012 11:46:41 AM >

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RE: A "Retard" Answers Ann Coulter - 10/26/2012 11:44:48 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

Neither is a embryo/fetus, its inside a woman for a reason.
it cannot survive without the mother until full development.
I would rather lay an egg...than go thru another pregnancy


Lots of people can't survive outside the womb without assistance. A man who has been hit by a car, and is lying on the side of the road bleeding to death, cannot survive outside the womb without assistance. Do we then say, "Well, he's no longer human, let's just leave him there."?

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RE: A "Retard" Answers Ann Coulter - 10/26/2012 11:47:53 AM   
Lucylastic


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RE: A "Retard" Answers Ann Coulter - 10/26/2012 11:48:51 AM   
mnottertail


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Pull em out and if they aint viable, they aint viable. 

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RE: A "Retard" Answers Ann Coulter - 10/26/2012 11:54:20 AM   
Marc2b


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Slippery slope. Then a miscarriage is murder as well....As would be losing a fertilized egg for any number of reasons.....Say you have a fender bender with a newly inpregnated woman. The Driver gets charged with first degree murder and the mother gets charged with manslaughter?


Miscarriages happen, just like heart attacks happen. We don't say that a man keeling over from a heart attack has been murdered. We can die from all sorts of things, that doesn't mean we are no longer human.

As for your fender bender scenario, I don't see on what basis you could charge the mother with manslaughter. As for the driver who caused the accident, I suppose you could make a case for negligent homicide or manslaughter (it would only be murder if he intended to cause the miscarriage... which, I believe, can happen in some jurisdictions), but I doubt it would ever happen.

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RE: A "Retard" Answers Ann Coulter - 10/26/2012 11:56:41 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

idiotic remark


How so?

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RE: A "Retard" Answers Ann Coulter - 10/26/2012 12:00:19 PM   
Marc2b


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Well pack his ass right back up in that old gash and see if he get better.  Then you got a point................somehow.

Pull em out and if they aint viable, they aint viable. 


As others have pointed out, miscarriages happen so being inside a womb doesn't necessarily make you viable either.



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RE: A "Retard" Answers Ann Coulter - 10/26/2012 12:01:48 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

Well pack his ass right back up in that old gash and see if he get better.  Then you got a point................somehow.

Pull em out and if they aint viable, they aint viable. 


As others have pointed out, miscarriages happen so being inside a womb doesn't necessarily make you viable either.




And that is wholly agreed. 

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