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RE: NYT hack piece - 10/31/2012 8:12:43 AM

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Right. Again, dodging the issue. Let's see if you can actually answer a simple question: are State governments funded by taxation, and if so why do you find them more acceptable than the federal government, given your libertarian allergy to paying taxes?

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(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: NYT hack piece - 10/31/2012 9:08:27 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Right. Again, dodging the issue. Let's see if you can actually answer a simple question: are State governments funded by taxation, and if so why do you find them more acceptable than the federal government, given your libertarian allergy to paying taxes?

There was no dodge. I answered your question.

Yes, state governments are funded by taxation. The federal government is funded by both taxation and deficit spending. Taxation is not the issue when it comes to acceptance of one above the other. The issue is one of power.

As to your stating I have an allergy to paying taxes, I have no libertarian allergy as to taxes. libertarians, generally, do not have such aversion. (I use a small l here as to differentiate from the Libertarian Party.) State sales tax, excise taxes are fine. I do take issue with income tax as it's, on one point, levied at the point of a gun. Property tax is another one but I'll leave that alone.

Most libertarians take issue with just what state versus federal should do. Most libertarians are rather strict Constitutional constructionists. Thus the issue is ultimately one of power.

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RE: NYT hack piece - 10/31/2012 9:09:50 AM

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Many states are funded by taxation and deficit spending.

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(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: NYT hack piece - 10/31/2012 9:20:31 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Many states are funded by taxation and deficit spending.

Deficit spending by states creates obligations payable in the future via funds only derived via taxation (I'm ignoring CAFR). Thus states are ultimately funded solely via taxation. The federal government has other avenues at its disposal.

Get snarky with me and it's to ignore you go. Be civil or be gone.

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 10/31/2012 9:21:29 AM >

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“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: NYT hack piece - 10/31/2012 9:32:46 AM

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I don't give a glimmer of a goddamn fuck what you do, sport. What avenues that aren't ultimately and simply taxation does the Fed possess? Drawing a distinction without a difference inumerately is not credible.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Many states are funded by taxation and deficit spending.

If you see something uncivil in that prima facie tautological statement, you better brush your teeth.

Don't threaten me with keyboard commando crap.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: NYT hack piece - 10/31/2012 9:58:25 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I don't give a glimmer of a goddamn fuck what you do, sport. What avenues that aren't ultimately and simply taxation does the Fed possess? Drawing a distinction without a difference inumerately is not credible.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Many states are funded by taxation and deficit spending.

If you see something uncivil in that prima facie tautological statement, you better brush your teeth.

Don't threaten me with keyboard commando crap.

What avenues that aren't ultimately and simply taxation does the Fed possess?

Differentiated from the states, The Printing Press! Pretty major that one.

Oh, and I find you most uncivil just about everywhere.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: NYT hack piece - 10/31/2012 10:00:01 AM

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Taxation. Pure and simple, not only penultimate but ultimate. You ain't never been civil or tutored wilbur.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 10/31/2012 10:01:42 AM >

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: NYT hack piece - 10/31/2012 10:04:50 AM

kdsub

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I'm not going on you are... I am the one that just clarified the responsible parties in a disaster in response to the OP...State first federal government second... you agree evidently but just could not help yourself in confusing the issue...

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/31/2012 10:08:43 AM >

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RE: NYT hack piece - 10/31/2012 10:06:07 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Many states are funded by taxation and deficit spending.

Deficit spending by states creates obligations payable in the future via funds only derived via taxation (I'm ignoring CAFR). Thus states are ultimately funded solely via taxation. The federal government has other avenues at its disposal.

Get snarky with me and it's to ignore you go. Be civil or be gone.

He fucking told you mnottertail. Now don't get snarky or he is gonna have to ignore you. THIS IS YOUR LAST WARNING

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: NYT hack piece - 10/31/2012 11:58:35 AM

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quote:

I'm not going on you are... I am the one that just clarified the responsible parties in a disaster in response to the OP...State first federal government second... you agree evidently but just could not help yourself in confusing the issue...

Nope, no confusion. I said the Feds were the 'insuror of last resort' You conveniently ignored that.
So, I ask you once again: why shouldn't federal income tax revenue be used for disaster relief in the states and why isn't disaster relief an issue for national security? Or do you wish to dodge the questions?

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: NYT hack piece - 10/31/2012 12:08:53 PM

kdsub

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If you agreed with me then why did you post...remember you were responding to me saying you did not agree then commenced to say the same as me agreeing...very confusing. I think you just like to disagree with me even when you agree.

It is and should be the states responsibility to respond to a disaster... and when and if they cannot respond to the situation properly then it is the Federal governments responsibility to step in...but the state should pay as much as possible.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/31/2012 12:24:24 PM >

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: NYT hack piece - 10/31/2012 12:42:38 PM

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quote:

It is and should be the states responsibility to respond to a disaster... and when and if they cannot respond to the situation properly then it is the Federal governments responsibility to step in...but the state should pay as much as possible.

That's not quite what you said, Butch. You said the Fed should be reimbursed what the state cannot afford . . . implication is that the Fed pays first . . . and then gets paid back.

Reality is that it is a joint operation with resources from local, state, and Feds. There is no time for "when and if" as a natural disaster approaches. If the team and resources are not in place before the storm . . . people are screwed much worse than they would have been.

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: NYT hack piece - 10/31/2012 1:07:06 PM

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quote:

The funny thing is if any staffer had bothered contacting the Red Cross, or any other major disaster group, they would have been told that a can drive is not desirable, pallets of canned goods are but individual cans are not. Raising cash or doing a blood drive would have been of much more direct aid to those impacted.

Mainly the reason the RC does not want caned foods, is because they have meals similar to MRE's the military uses. They contain the calorie count recommended for each meal, and they can be stored without anything but a dry place, and they heat up simply by opening the package... They hand these out in their relief centers and to any person in need, they can hand out a weeks worth of food to a family of four in one basic shipping box. They are preferred in the first stages of any event such as Sandy

They also do not accept prepared food from individuals for donations or to feed their volunteers, cause you never know what people do to the food they cook or the condition it was cooked under. The last thing you want is the people going in to help getting sick from unsafe food

(in reply to DomKen)

RE: NYT hack piece - 10/31/2012 4:57:45 PM

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Saw this on Facebook and can't resist sharing.

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No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to subspaceseven)

RE: NYT hack piece - 11/1/2012 9:36:16 AM

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Stewart: Chris Christie "Kicked Crazy Ass" Working With Obama On Hurricane Relief

After two days on hiatus due to Hurricane Sandy, Jon Stewart was back on the air tonight to recap just how hard New York was hit by the hurricane in the past few days. Stewart said that Manhattan is still so dark, he’s nicknaming it “Little North Korea.” He credited the state and local officials who were quick to respond to the damage, singling out New Jersey governor Chris Christie for his praise of President Obama while working with him on the devastation.

Stewart checked in with three Daily Show correspondents to survey the damage. While Al Madrigal was holding a machete to protect himself in the new free-for-all madness and Jessica Williams was selling rats on the lower east side, John Oliver surveyed the mostly unharmed “total hellscape” in Times Square and ran off a quintessential list of first world problems.

Stewart continued by honoring the state and local officials who responded to the hurricane, in what he dubbed a “tribute to institutional competence.” He credited both Michael Bloomberg and Andrew Cuomo for their responses, and used Bloomberg’s statement about the necessity of government services to sarcastically ask, “Did you know that people need government services and they cost money?”

But the majority of Stewart’s praise went to Christie, who Stewart said “kicked crazy ass” in how he responded to the hurricane. He’s been one of Romney’s biggest allies and one of Obama’s biggest critics, and yet the New Jersey governor not only toured the damage with Obama, but he went out of his way to actually praise Obama’s leadership in responding to the storm. And even when Fox News’ Steve Doocy tried to prod Christie by asking him about meeting with Romney to tour the damage in New Jersey, Christie smacked him down by saying politics are the furthest thing from his mind during a natural disaster.

At that point in the conversation, Stewart said, someone should have just flipped over a table and screamed “Prostitution whore!” a la the Real Housewives

Watch the video below, courtesy of Comedy Central: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/jon-stewart-chris-christie-kicked-crazy-ass-working-with-obama-on-hurricane-relief/

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RE: NYT hack piece - 11/1/2012 10:09:48 AM

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It is an amazing aspect of the times we live in.
Comedy Central has the best,hardest hitting,and to the point look at the topics of the day.
Stewart and Colbert are the Hunt and Brinkley of a new generation.
Who woulda thunk it

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RE: NYT hack piece - 11/1/2012 10:19:06 AM

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quote:

Get snarky with me and it's to ignore you go. Be civil or be gone.

Is that code speak for you not being able to respond on an intellectual level ? Your attempts at civil discourse can be documented by the simple use of the search function.

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: NYT hack piece - 11/1/2012 10:51:11 AM

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I agree, parody news ends up being more on target then "real news "stations..

Walter Kronkite must be rolling over in his grave....unless he is buried in the path of Sandy, then I'm sure he is floating in his grave

(in reply to slvemike4u)

RE: NYT hack piece - 11/1/2012 11:10:47 AM

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But this nation is now in competition with malignant forces of evil who are using every instrument at their command to empty the minds of their subjects and fill those minds with slogans, determination and faith in the future.
...
Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost.
...
This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires and lights in a box. There is a great and perhaps decisive battle to be fought against ignorance, intolerance and indifference. This weapon of television could be useful.

Excerpts from an Edward R Murrow speech to broadcasters 1958.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to subspaceseven)

RE: NYT hack piece - 11/1/2012 11:24:00 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subspaceseven
I agree, parody news ends up being more on target then "real news "stations..
Walter Kronkite must be rolling over in his grave....unless he is buried in the path of Sandy, then I'm sure he is floating in his grave

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What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to subspaceseven)

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