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RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? - 11/3/2012 7:59:45 AM

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There are two separate definitions that come to play when you are talking forced bi. One is the one LadyP talked about, her boy is straight, but if she forces him to suck cock for HER enjoyment, that is forced bi.

Then there is the definition I see all the time on the profile of male subs -- they are *requesting* forced bi. Requesting is not forced (obviously) in the way most of us think of it. This is, as E2Sweet pointed out, "getting to experience all the feel-good stuff about homosexuality, without the guilt and personal responsibility, even if the internal mind game is being played out only on the subconscious level..."

There are some things people very much like, but need, for whatever reason, to be forced to do. An old BDSM check list I recall (I think it's from Screw the Roses, but don't quote me on that) used to have various categories for checking off, like "love it," "hate it," "maybe," and then one that was "make me."

That was a great option for those who have soft limits they would *like* someone to push.

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RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? - 11/3/2012 9:14:27 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FilmWithMistrix

My definition?

If you call to book a session, and request forced bi.. and then pay extra for it... no matter how much we role play 'force'... you're bi... get over it.

If I am playing with you on a personal level, and I surprise you with a cock & you acquiesce & suck it, but havent requested/indicated an interest in doing so prior... then its forced regardless of the amount of force (mental/physical/whatever) required to get you to do it.

This ^ and if you put in your likes and wants on your profile 'forced bi' you are bi.

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RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? - 11/3/2012 9:18:24 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

The guy paying for "forced bi" is definitly not straight. Its not sucking cock that makes him bi, its the desire to do so. Yoy can suck a hundred cocks and be straight and be a virgin and gay.

The real submissive who has no interest in the opposite sex but does it for his/her owners pleasure is straight.

I dont get off that much watching bi women go at it but watching a straight woman going down on another only to please me? Hot!

Where do you find a woman who will agree to have sex with your sub, knowing your sub is going to hate it?
I would hate to have a sexual encounter with someone who hated it but was only doing it for their Master

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? - 11/3/2012 9:46:11 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

There are two separate definitions that come to play when you are talking forced bi. One is the one LadyP talked about, her boy is straight, but if she forces him to suck cock for HER enjoyment, that is forced bi.

This 100 times this!!!

Then there is the definition I see all the time on the profile of male subs -- they are *requesting* forced bi. Requesting is not forced (obviously) in the way most of us think of it. This is, as E2Sweet pointed out, "getting to experience all the feel-good stuff about homosexuality, without the guilt and personal responsibility, even if the internal mind game is being played out only on the subconscious level..."

THIS is the sort of "forced-bi" activity that I SEE requested/ mentioned 90% of the time.

There are some things people very much like, but need, for whatever reason, to be forced to do. An old BDSM check list I recall (I think it's from Screw the Roses, but don't quote me on that) used to have various categories for checking off, like "love it," "hate it," "maybe," and then one that was "make me."

That was a great option for those who have soft limits they would *like* someone to push.

We get thread after thread about this "desire", thank you for making the point so clearly and thoroughly.

I think the point is so obvious, that those that don't understand the difference, just don't want to understand the difference.

Denial is so not only located in Egypt.

< Message edited by Marini -- 11/3/2012 9:56:29 AM >

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RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? - 11/3/2012 10:04:02 AM

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FR

I agree with what a few on here have said. It's not the act of having sex with someone of the same gender that makes you bi, it's the attraction and desire to have sex with someone of the same gender that does. If someone is genuinely doing it solely for the pleasure and enjoyment of another and would never have any inclination to do it on their own, then it is forced. As far as what the point of it is? For many it's a humiliation thing. For instance, I label myself as bi because I really don't have any other word for what I am. I am mostly lesbian with the exception of my husband. For me, sex with another man is something that really grosses me out at the thought of and is something that would be humiliating and degrading for me. Now, for some dominants, that would be a huge turn on for them which would then be the whole point of forcing me to do it. Thankfully, it's not something I have to worry about, lol.

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RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? - 11/3/2012 10:15:14 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

The guy paying for "forced bi" is definitly not straight. Its not sucking cock that makes him bi, its the desire to do so. Yoy can suck a hundred cocks and be straight and be a virgin and gay.

The real submissive who has no interest in the opposite sex but does it for his/her owners pleasure is straight.

I dont get off that much watching bi women go at it but watching a straight woman going down on another only to please me? Hot!

Where do you find a woman who will agree to have sex with your sub, knowing your sub is going to hate it?
I would hate to have a sexual encounter with someone who hated it but was only doing it for their Master

I was in this situation once as the bi woman and wished she had been up front with me ahead of time. It was a real downer for me. We ended up becoming friends until I got tired of her complaining about him long after either of us were seeing him.

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RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? - 11/3/2012 10:22:54 AM

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Hah!
Before I scrolled down I knew LP would be
in there.

-Aries

< Message edited by ARIES83 -- 11/3/2012 10:24:06 AM >

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RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? - 11/3/2012 10:32:28 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

The guy paying for "forced bi" is definitly not straight. Its not sucking cock that makes him bi, its the desire to do so. Yoy can suck a hundred cocks and be straight and be a virgin and gay.

The real submissive who has no interest in the opposite sex but does it for his/her owners pleasure is straight.

I dont get off that much watching bi women go at it but watching a straight woman going down on another only to please me? Hot!

Where do you find a woman who will agree to have sex with your sub, knowing your sub is going to hate it?
I would hate to have a sexual encounter with someone who hated it but was only doing it for their Master

[/quote
So would I...hate isnt the only possibile reaction and I am not exactly known for poor results.

(in reply to MariaB)

RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? - 11/3/2012 10:42:12 AM

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How the hell can you be straight and gay...

And for that matter after 100cocks in any hole
how can you even consider someone a virgin...

< Message edited by ARIES83 -- 11/3/2012 10:47:59 AM >

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RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? - 11/3/2012 10:48:06 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Consider Me the straight M who enjoys the above.

I seriously don't care if he gets nothing out of it. The entire venture is about pleasing Me. What I want to see him do and what I want to have the POWER to make him do is the point of it all. It's not about him opening his mouth so he can get his sexual kicks. It's about him taking cock down his throat to satisfy MY sexual kinks. It's about owning someone so completely that My will overrides his own.

If I ever went down that route, this would be why. Her will over-riding mine and me doing whatever it took to please her.

I can see some guys wanting it as a fantasy and it is just that, a fantasy. maybe they would do it in R/t or maybe not. It could also be a fantasy of Bi or Bi Curious guys.

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RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? - 11/3/2012 10:55:42 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

so are you saying that your no has greater repercussions that your yes? you think that him being disappointed in not getting his own way is far worse than forcing you to do something that you are so against?

my different thinking brain screams at me that that is just so wrong. my hard limits are there for a reason and if he tried to force those limits i think i'd lose my respect for him.

needles

I get the limits thing.......But

What if you had agreed, my limits are your limits. IE <I have no limits>, many people agree to having no limits, without thinking of the implications. If you have been foolish enough, or brave enough, to agree to no limits, you best be prepared for the ramifications of doing so.

A question I often ask myself, is how far will I go to please her.... The answer is, I really dont know.

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RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? - 11/3/2012 11:17:02 AM

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I am seriously straight. No ff what-so-ever on pain of.. well, pain for the person inflicting themselves upon me. I don't see the point to forced bi unless someone was willing to compromise their personal ethics in order to please someone else. Yuck. I play with people who accept I have that limit and should one try to cross that, they would see my back as I exit. I don't mess with my ethics in order to have someone in my life. No part of me is that needy.

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RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? - 11/3/2012 11:19:37 AM

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I am not bi and feel that forced bi does not make you bi. To me, it seems it comes down to how far are you willing to go to please your master or to save a relationship. That would make me question the master as to how willing they are to lose a good sub. If it is just play time, that is different, the sub can definitely say no and that's it.

I know i would be extremely hurt knowing the master would be willing to lose me over something like this. That would tell me alot about what he thinks of the relationship. Goodbyes would be swift.

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RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? - 11/3/2012 11:29:29 AM

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~ Fast Reply ~

I consider myself straight. I've had one, very mild and brief sexual encounter with a woman about 20 years ago and I hated it.

But the Mister is wanting this, so I will give it to him. Why? Because I want to please him. Because he'll get off on watching me with another woman, and that's important to me. I know I won't be tragically scarred from it. I may or may not enjoy it, but this is a case where it's not about what I want, but what he wants.

For me to do this is really all about my mindset. While I wouldn't go do this on my own, if HE wants it, surely I can wrap my head around it enough to get pleasure from HIS pleasure from it. It doesn't have to be a miserable experience. It doesn't have to be miserable for the other woman, either - it all depends on my mindset going into it, and I have a choice in that mindset.

I've done other things in my life for men that I didn't want to do, for the purpose of submitting and pleasing him. I can do this, too.

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RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? - 11/3/2012 11:31:32 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

Hah!
Before I scrolled down I knew LP would be
in there.

-Aries

Big shocker, huh? LOL.

OK. Various comments to things that came up during the thread. I don't want folks to start thinking these are situations where people are having their limits broken or there is a lack of consent here. These are consent/non consent areas. The point where someone has agreed to be Mine and they get those famous two choices. Obey or leave. It's past the "but I don't want to" phase. Not liking something or not wanting to do it is not a reason not to submit.

I think this is why I have come to like the term heteroflexible over the years. The difference, to Me, between that term and bisexual is all about desire. You want that cock (or pussy, as the case may be fore females)? You're bi. You are engaging in an act that is determined by outside influence, such as power or control that one has over you in a M/s dynamic? Heteroflexible. You KNOW you can be commanded to do so, even if you don't like it.

Unlike Michael, I have no experience with finding women to engage with a woman that they know are not enjoying it. I've never had a problem with finding males who will get in on the act because they enjoy the concept of the power thing, too. People doing things that they don't want to do because they are doing it for YOU is HOT. Inner turmoil about it is like the sprinkles on the ice cream.

That's also where the trust comes in. Some of this is about waiting on My part for someone to get to that place and Me not rushing them into it until their submission has reached that point. I actually do believe in grooming someone to prepare for the experience.

Now, here's the screwed up part. Would I do it? Nope. I don't have it in Me to submit that way. That's what these situations are about. Not sexuality, but submission.

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RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? - 11/3/2012 11:33:57 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
That's what these situations are about. Not sexuality, but submission.

Bingo. That is the case for me.

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RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? - 11/3/2012 12:17:31 PM

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I am surprised how people are reacting to this!

Sure, i get off on pushing limits, forced bi, etc. BUTS ITS ALL IN A CONTEXT OF A SOLID RELATIONSHIP. If forcing,someone is going to screw their heads up, only a moron would force the issue.

Its like, I really dislike county music, country bars, etc. Going to one on a date wont kill me, so sure, why not. Its not like she asked me to do something I couldnever get over, like voting,for romney or something sick like that!

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RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? - 11/3/2012 12:47:41 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I am surprised how people are reacting to this!

Sure, i get off on pushing limits, forced bi, etc. BUTS ITS ALL IN A CONTEXT OF A SOLID RELATIONSHIP. If forcing,someone is going to screw their heads up, only a moron would force the issue.

Its like, I really dislike county music, country bars, etc. Going to one on a date wont kill me, so sure, why not. Its not like she asked me to do something I couldnever get over, like voting,for romney or something sick like that!

It's all kind of the point of D/s, isn't it? Forced bi if the dominant wants it; pain if the dominant wants to even though I'm not a masochist. If I were still in my first relationship, I'd be voting Republican next week because he would want it. Doing what he wanted was more satisfying, in that brief time, than doing what I wanted or avoiding what I didn't.

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RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? - 11/3/2012 12:52:08 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Its like, I really dislike county music, country bars, etc. Going to one on a date wont kill me, so sure, why not. Its not like she asked me to do something I couldnever get over, like voting,for romney or something sick like that!

While I've already said I'd do it, I have to say this (above) is kind of an apples to oranges comparison. Sure, I've sat through music I don't like, and God Forbid if I have to watch National Treasure with him one more time....lol.

But for me, anyway, the forced-bi thing is not just physically enduring something for him. It conjures up all sorts of emotions for me, some of which are pretty scary. It's very unfamiliar territory. So for me, there is a lot more involved with it. But then I did tell him when we met that I don't come without complications.

Edited to add: The whole point of it for me, and to answer the OP why this is not a hard limit for me, is that in my submission to him, I am willing to work through my own issues to give him what he wants. That said, he's the type of man who has the patience to wait for me and to help me work through what I need to. For some things, he has waited and helped me for years, and continues to.

< Message edited by NuevaVida -- 11/3/2012 12:54:57 PM >

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RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? - 11/3/2012 1:07:04 PM

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People are reacting to this, I believe (from Maria):

quote:

Where do you find a woman who will agree to have sex with your sub, knowing your sub is going to hate it?
I would hate to have a sexual encounter with someone who hated it but was only doing it for their Master

I think it would take a rather sadistic female with a dom side to get off on the control issues involved. Two fem subs? My take is it would be hard to get a female to go along with the program, knowing one was willing just to please you.

Men, well that's a different matter. Many males just like sex and aren't that picky.

Yes, that *was* a highly sexist statement. Okay, they both are.

YMMV and all that crap.

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