quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

ok i get your point to an extent. i say extent because i don't see what the hell it has to do with trusting the other person. i know myself best so if i say no it's for a reason and the other person should just respect that, as they expect me to respect their's. i'm not sure how someone can agree to 'no limits' when they have limits, but that's just me.

but there are those that insist on the other taking part in same gender sex when the other is very adament that they are straight. i don't see how anyone can claim to be straight, have sex with the same gender and still claim to be straight when they insist that others are bi just because they allowed themselves to be 'forced'.

another thing it makes me wonder is this; if it's all down to enjoying the experience what would it mean if you had been blindfold, had no idea who the other person playing with you is, and enjoyed what happened. if you cum from this does that make you bi? when the blindfold comes off you can't claim that you didn't enjoy it just because you now know that they were the same gender. therefore it is only your own mind block that tells you you are straight.

needles

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

You said this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24


I was referring to acts that violate the very fiber of a persons core, moral fibers, deep beliefs, and I think "forced Bi" is in that category.

You seem to have missed that I said this:

quote:

He knows me well enough to know that although it is pathetically easy for him to get me to a point I would do anything for him, he can't push those limits, b/c to do so would be damaging to me.

It's nothing I have to worry about in the least, b/c he's not interested in damaging me, I know that.

That lw and mos have established relationships where they share their d-types limits does not mean they feel "so deep a need to be with someone I would do anything they asked." It's not an issue of being needy, it's an issue of TRUST.

And that Kana said this:

quote:

And with caution. Don't go running willy-nilly into shit. Think about the ramifications, the long term effects down the road. Ask yourself, "Is the risk worth the payoff?"
Am I willing to gamble everything in our relationship for this one thing. And if so, what's the price I'M gonna pay, because sure as hell, I'm gonna pay one too.
It might not be anything readily visible, but the internal dynamics of the relationship are gonna change, and that means I'm gonna change too

So who's talking about things that violate a person's core?

From what I've read, most replies have made it clear the dominant would never do such a thing, even if the s-type "has no limits."

You know chatter, I've been trying to deal with you, b/c I know you're trying to learn, but then you make wild statements with little basis in reality. Sure, you're entitled to your opinion same as everyone else, but dang, some of yours don't exactly help your credibility.

quote:

Me, I always find these sorts of issues a lot easier to deal with if I don't try to resolve them. It's neither forced, nor consensual - it's both. It's contradictory. That's why it's fun. Any takers? No? There hardly ever are

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
I hate to break this to you, but I was referring to the flip side, where a dom is not taking the best interest of sub in mind. Where do you get I was taking what you said and using it at all? I didnt even read your post until you mistakenly thought I Had and was referring to it. The only reason I commented further is because I saw where you said my lack of understanding was appalling. I understand that alot of people do things because they BELEIVE they have lost their power to a creep who takes advantage of that person. Call it sub frenzy, call it poor self esteem, call it whatever you want. THey believe they have no control, and no power, but they do, they just have became beat down and lost.
Are there good doms out there, Im sure there are but Im speaking about the ones who ARE NOT doing the right thing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
I hate to break this to you, but I was referring to the flip side, where a dom is not taking the best interest of sub in mind. Where do you get I was taking what you said and using it at all? I didnt even read your post until you mistakenly thought I Had and was referring to it. The only reason I commented further is because I saw where you said my lack of understanding was appalling. I understand that alot of people do things because they BELEIVE they have lost their power to a creep who takes advantage of that person. Call it sub frenzy, call it poor self esteem, call it whatever you want. THey believe they have no control, and no power, but they do, they just have became beat down and lost.
Are there good doms out there, Im sure there are but Im speaking about the ones who ARE NOT doing the right thing.

What I would like to hope that you would realize is that things such as this are not always on the extreme ends of the bell curve. Not everybody who engages in this kind of play is some creep who is looking to traumatize the individual that they are dealing with. Give a little credit where it's due. Maybe, just maybe, same gender sexual activities AREN'T going to be the end of the world for some people, even if they are straight.

In My opinion, I would have to agree with the lack of understanding. I say that because I have to look at what you are basing your education on to draw the conclusions that you have on the thread. When you look at where your knowledge comes from in order to come to those conclusions may not provide you with a worthy source.

The comments here remind Me of an old saying. Feelings are not facts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingreality

quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

ok i get your point to an extent. i say extent because i don't see what the hell it has to do with trusting the other person. i know myself best so if i say no it's for a reason and the other person should just respect that, as they expect me to respect their's. i'm not sure how someone can agree to 'no limits' when they have limits, but that's just me.

but there are those that insist on the other taking part in same gender sex when the other is very adament that they are straight. i don't see how anyone can claim to be straight, have sex with the same gender and still claim to be straight when they insist that others are bi just because they allowed themselves to be 'forced'.

another thing it makes me wonder is this; if it's all down to enjoying the experience what would it mean if you had been blindfold, had no idea who the other person playing with you is, and enjoyed what happened. if you cum from this does that make you bi? when the blindfold comes off you can't claim that you didn't enjoy it just because you now know that they were the same gender. therefore it is only your own mind block that tells you you are straight.

needles

Personally, i think you are getting too hung up on labels, and I am not a big label person.

A person might enjoy "forced bi" for reasons that aren't really about the sexual experience of being with someone of the same sex -- the person who enjoys forced bi might simply get off on being directed to do something they abhore, or they might get off on doing someone to please their master/mistress even if they dislike it themselves. In that case, the sex is really just a path to humiliation.

Or a person might like forced bi because they like being with someone of the same sex and don't want admit.

A million diffferent ways to skin this one.

I don't see the big deal in how someone chooses to label themselves. even if you are involved with them, the label they give themselves doesn't matter; it's how they define the label for you.

quote:

my question about forced bi is that as it is actually done with consent of the one being told to do it, how can they keep bashing people with that stick? if you are either straight, bi or gay depending on who you fuck then you have to be bi if you have sex with both genders, forced or otherwise.

another point i have made before on lables is that not one single person on this site is an actual slave. not one single person is owned, and yet they insist they are. if everyone else has to accept, and respect that then they should be the last one telling others they are not what they claim to be.

Lady, as a Black woman, whose family members were real slaves about 150 years ago, I am not going to even get started.
LMAO

for me i believe that there is no set rule, no black and white. there is a whole fricking rainbow and people can sit wherever they want.
AMEN!

on the rest of my op, i wanted to know what others got out of it because i would not do something that i claimed i was so adverse to just for someone else's pleasure, and at the expence of my own feelings. nore could i have sex with someone i knew didn't want me to be touching them.

i actually think the thread has been a good one regardless of what some others may think.

so my thanks to all that have posted.

needles
___________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
What is the lack of understanding? That I believe forcing someone do what they dont want to do is wrong? Or doing something to someone they dont want is wrong?

quote:

You also believe I have lack of understanding because I am talking about the flip side, where a person IS DOING WRONG TO GET THEIR OWN ROCKS OFF, or have some kind of sadistic nature someone else isnt ready for but is exposed too?

quote:

Give credit to what? I was talking about the total flip side not bell curves, SICK DOMS, not good ones. Give credit to criminals? Because if somoene is not gving consent to those acts many are considered criminal. Hmmm. I just shake my head to some of this bizaree thinking and rationale.

quote:

Hey if someone is in a healthy state of mind and enjoy being forced, raped, their morals manipulated, feel good about that, then more power to them, but I am speaking for those, who might not be in that situation. Who feel trapped.

quote:

YOu think my only education is what has been said on this forum past or present? Just like most people on here and everywhere, you see and know one tiny portion written or what someone shared on a forum. If you base everything on that, well, you cant make accurate calls.
Time for a collar chat break. :) bye.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Consider Me the straight M who enjoys the above.

I seriously don't care if he gets nothing out of it. The entire venture is about pleasing Me. What I want to see him do and what I want to have the POWER to make him do is the point of it all. It's not about him opening his mouth so he can get his sexual kicks. It's about him taking cock down his throat to satisfy MY sexual kinks. It's about owning someone so completely that My will overrides his own.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Me, I always find these sorts of issues a lot easier to deal with if I don't try to resolve them. It's neither forced, nor consensual - it's both. It's contradictory. That's why it's fun. Any takers? No? There hardly ever are.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24

IM not going to insult you when I think some of your views are confused and outside the box, so when you think mine are, we dont have to insult each other.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24

IM not going to insult you when I think some of your views are confused and outside the box, so when you think mine are, we dont have to insult each other.

Do you not see how some of your assessments might be insulting?

Like "sick doms, not good ones" or "doing wrong to get their own rocks off".

By the criterion you've provided earlier, I could probably be classified as a rapist, which might be apt to upset me a little if I cared what others' views are in that regard. No partner of mine has ever classified me thus, or felt bad about the time spent together, which is good enough for me. I get the impression it's not good enough for you.

IWYW,
— Aswad.

quote:


To describe this person as a closet knicker wetter who just can't admit her fetish to herself would be a silly, silly thing to do.

Her fetish was the submission, the humiliation, the moment of consenting to do it despite her disgust, and her knowledge that doing so would make her v v hawny.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24

Yes Sir, I could see how that could be taken as insulting but to me , [...], really is not meant as an insult.

quote:

I think there is some further confusion as to what I said earlier. Sick doms, when I had that reference, I am speaking of people who intentional hurt people against their will, when psychological damage is being done to a someone who is not quite in their facilities, and suffer greatly in the future from this.

quote:

Do you do this? Do you hurt people in this way?

quote:

I would also like to add, I called you sir, and I didnt mean it in a sub/dom type way. I just felt like saying sir, in a strictly vanilla way, cause believe it or not. I can be very polite when I feel like it. lol. Even to rapists and the such...Ha!.............AND IM JOKING ABOUT THE RAPIST THING, so easy people. I have a SICK humor at times.