quote:

ORIGINAL: chainedandgagged

Greece, france, england most of europe, japan...........all have economies that are far worse than ours.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chainedandgagged

Greece, france, england most of europe, japan...........all have economies that are far worse than ours.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

quote:

ORIGINAL: chainedandgagged

Greece, france, england most of europe, japan...........all have economies that are far worse than ours.

Well, the question wasn't directed at you. But I'm curious. When you say most of Europe, who are you excluding? And by this list, you are excluding I presume, China, North Korea and the like?

quote:

ORIGINAL: chainedandgagged

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

quote:

ORIGINAL: chainedandgagged

Greece, france, england most of europe, japan...........all have economies that are far worse than ours.

Well, the question wasn't directed at you. But I'm curious. When you say most of Europe, who are you excluding? And by this list, you are excluding I presume, China, North Korea and the like?

you must of failed geography....cause china, North korea are part of asia........China has half our gdp.......HALF. North korea? go live under that socialist state? protest your life? You wont spit the word out of your mouth before you and your family are arrested tortured, and slowly murdered, if they have mercy on you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

quote:

ORIGINAL: chainedandgagged

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

quote:

ORIGINAL: chainedandgagged

Greece, france, england most of europe, japan...........all have economies that are far worse than ours.

Well, the question wasn't directed at you. But I'm curious. When you say most of Europe, who are you excluding? And by this list, you are excluding I presume, China, North Korea and the like?

you must of failed geography....cause china, North korea are part of asia........China has half our gdp.......HALF. North korea? go live under that socialist state? protest your life? You wont spit the word out of your mouth before you and your family are arrested tortured, and slowly murdered, if they have mercy on you.

Show me exactly where you say asia in your post? You say Japan. Japan is not the entirety of Asia. Was it in invisible type? If you can't even read or remember what you yourself wrote, discussion of any sort really becomes a little difficult. I'm doing the best I can with what you're giving me. [&:]

quote:

ORIGINAL: chainedandgagged

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

quote:

ORIGINAL: chainedandgagged

Greece, france, england most of europe, japan...........all have economies that are far worse than ours.

Well, the question wasn't directed at you. But I'm curious. When you say most of Europe, who are you excluding? And by this list, you are excluding I presume, China, North Korea and the like?

you must of failed geography....cause china, North korea are part of asia........China has half our gdp.......HALF. North korea? go live under that socialist state? protest your life? You wont spit the word out of your mouth before you and your family are arrested tortured, and slowly murdered, if they have mercy on you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX

why dont you learn how to spell? I dont even know how you would think anyone here takes anything you say seriously.... your tinfoil cap must be shooting sparks by now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

Ok. A little primer for some on this thread.

The term socialism has an actual meaning in political science/theory. And while people bandy it about it many ways, it is instructive to look at its actual meaning.

A standard definition of socialist would be the following:

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

2
a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

By the above definition (the kind of standard definition that any theorist who writes about socialism would use), very few countries in the world today are, in fact, socialist. And very few were even historically.

To bandy about the term "socialist" to refer to any and all programs supported by government is quite simply an incorrect use of the term.

Now, importantly. Social democracy is not itself a socialist system. Social democrats advocate political reforms by operating within the existing political system of capitalism. The social democratic movement does not have the goal of moving toward a socialist economy and instead advocates for social reforms to improve capitalism, such as a welfare state and unemployment benefits. It is best demonstrated by the economic format which has been used in Sweden, Denmark, Norway, and Finland in the past few decades. This approach has been called the Nordic model.

Anyone who thinks the term "social democrat" and "socialist" are interchangeable knows nothing about political theory.

Anyone who thinks the term "social" is interchangeable with "socialist" doesn't know English very well.

Anyone who thinks China and North Korea are the same as Japan, Norway and Germany, well, I don't know if I can even come up with a description for how misplaced such a belief is.

And just for the record the per capita GDP of Norway is approx 62,000, and well ahead of the U.S. at approx 48,000. Even Hong Kong is at 49,000.

So all of you against social democracy, explain to me again why it is bad for the economy? And please, when you respond, realize if you are going to discuss most of Europe, we are not talking about "socialism". Let's get the terms and the concepts correct, folks. Otherwise it's just a lot of hot air.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
Could you do us all on this thread a favor and list a few countries that you consider socialist, and also list some politicians historically or presently, American, or otherwise (other than Obama) who you consider socialist? I would like to understand your understanding of the term "socialist" before responding to the above. Because it most certainly deserves response.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

Good one, PoliteSub =p

If anything, the response to the election (and re-election campaigns) of President Obama showed me just how racist people really STILL are.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
This is usually what racists say.....not that I`m calling you one..... 

I am almost positive you just did!

as to...

slvemike4u's post

I know exactly what I said.... but too bad... you and your ilk no longer get to guilt the United States of America for Slavery, Reconstruction or Jim Crow. That happened but it's over and we have evolved as a nation...

The electorate of America has spoken now and forever... the candidate matters not the color of the candidate's skin

quote:

"We have to protect ourselves, or they will kill us!" Steven Howard, a Klan group leader in Mississippi, said...

"Black people and white people are nowhere related," Howard said. "In my opinion, black people evolved from animals. That's what I think they evolved from: apes."

"[You] can't trust [blacks] -- it's just facts. It's just facts, you can't trust them. You can't trust them," Howard said...

"I'm not saying that I don't like black people," he said, "I'm saying that I believe in racial segregation. I believe that we need to be separated. ... Let them set up their own state, where they belong, and give them their own homeland."

"You can't trust a black person as far as you can throw them," he said. "I believe that 100 percent."..

Did Howard consider himself a racist?

"I consider myself a white separatist. A bigot? No. A racist? That's fair; you could call me a racist. Because a racist is just somebody who is racially aware, that thinks about race."...

[Howard] and others freely talked about a looming race war if Obama was re-elected. The KKK and other groups call it "the storm."

"Oh, it's going to happen. And I fear it...And it ain't just me...If he gets four more years, Barack Obama will ruin this country. And white people will be in concentration camps, and if you don't think that white people [can] be in concentration camps, [you] are sadly mistaken."...

His solution to avoid this is an all-white south. All blacks, Hispanics and Jews would be banned and given someplace else in America to live.

When pressed, Howard admitted his idea threatened his stated commitment to nonviolence.

"If they will not peacefully then the only way is through violence," he said.

"A race war," McFadden said.

"Very much so," Howard said...

Howard carries a pistol, concealed, at all times, he said.

Howard admitted he was angry at the government.

"I'm very mad at the government. ... It hurts my heart to see all the people that I lost and I won't ever get them back. ... So yeah, do I got a lot of hate in me? You better -- yeah, I got a lot of hate in me. A lot of hate for nothing. I got a lot of built up in me, a lot of hurt. A lot of hurt because I don't understand it."

quote:

ORIGINAL: chainedandgagged

never....but we are heading their...under your man......you libs stand by your man.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
France, Spain, Italy, Greece & Portugal (and I barely left the Mediterranian rim).

As far as American socialists?

I'm sure if I could be asked to study the 53 D senators, I could come up with ten of them (at least) that fit into the four categories that I listed above. Nancy Pelosi certainly comes to mind.

President Clinton had socialist leanings but, one would have to be a complete fool to say that SOCiety doesn't demand some elements of SOCialism.

FDR was an absolute socialist. Noam Chomsky is (I think he's still alive) a socialist.

Now, that I've answered your question, please enlighten me how my claim of Ofailure being a socialist paints me as a racist? Am I an anti-socialist? You bet your bippy I am! I say that loudly and proudly.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
France, Spain, Italy, Greece & Portugal (and I barely left the Mediterranian rim).

As far as American socialists?

I'm sure if I could be asked to study the 53 D senators, I could come up with ten of them (at least) that fit into the four categories that I listed above. Nancy Pelosi certainly comes to mind.

President Clinton had socialist leanings but, one would have to be a complete fool to say that SOCiety doesn't demand some elements of SOCialism.

FDR was an absolute socialist. Noam Chomsky is (I think he's still alive) a socialist.

Now, that I've answered your question, please enlighten me how my claim of Ofailure being a socialist paints me as a racist? Am I an anti-socialist? You bet your bippy I am! I say that loudly and proudly.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

Ok. A little primer for some on this thread.

The term socialism has an actual meaning in political science/theory. And while people bandy it about it many ways, it is instructive to look at its actual meaning.

A standard definition of socialist would be the following:

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

2
a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

By the above definition (the kind of standard definition that any theorist who writes about socialism would use), very few countries in the world today are, in fact, socialist. And very few were even historically.

quote:

To bandy about the term "socialist" to refer to any and all programs supported by government is quite simply an incorrect use of the term.

Now, importantly. Social democracy is not itself a socialist system. Social democrats advocate political reforms by operating within the existing political system of capitalism.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
France, Spain, Italy, Greece & Portugal (and I barely left the Mediterranian rim).

As far as American socialists?

I'm sure if I could be asked to study the 53 D senators, I could come up with ten of them (at least) that fit into the four categories that I listed above. Nancy Pelosi certainly comes to mind.

President Clinton had socialist leanings but, one would have to be a complete fool to say that SOCiety doesn't demand some elements of SOCialism.

FDR was an absolute socialist. Noam Chomsky is (I think he's still alive) a socialist.

Now, that I've answered your question, please enlighten me how my claim of Ofailure being a socialist paints me as a racist? Am I an anti-socialist? You bet your bippy I am! I say that loudly and proudly.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

Please read my comments earlier on this thread - post 96 - about the term "socialist". You are inaccurate in your use of the term. I understand what you are trying to say, but the term you want is not "socialist". You have generally struck me as someone who likes to pay attention to details. Then please, engage in the debate using the correct terms. Your use of the term "socialist" is actually detracting from the points you are trying to make. You will get more mileage if you can engage with the right terminology.