RE: "Protected "submissive

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juliaoceania -> RE: "Protected "submissive (6/17/2006 8:02:01 AM)
The dom I am seeing has had problems that had to be dealt with at a public club with a "Lord of Everything" type that ordered his submissive around. He dealt with it without going to the dungeon master (yes it was a public club and the guy probably had seen too many BDSM movies). I definitely am strong enough to tell a dungeon master I have a problem, or leave the situation, but the question remains... why should I have to do that if I could put on a collar from PetSmart and avoid it? Im not going to do that, but the question remains, why is there anything inherently wrong with it? I do not understand thinking like a submissive lacks reasoning ability because she is in a new situation and feels more comfortable with a collar on her neck and not talking to anyone but the people she came to an event with. I wonder if anyone considered the freedom this would give a submissive to just investigate whether or not they wanted to be "part of the scene". I do not judge it. Others disagree I am sure, but I do not think it weak either. I havent done any public play (that will change at the end of next week...smiles). I trust the person I am going with. If someone gave me trouble he would take care of it in a reasonable way. It would be easy for me to judge other submissives for wearing such a collar, but I will not do it. Here is a question for you.... If a new submissive asked you to watch out for them and requested a collar to blend in with the crowd, would you honor that request? Would you ridicule it?

PlayfulOne -> RE: "Protected "submissive (6/17/2006 8:32:00 AM)
I would do neither. I would not ridicule her ( and please if you think that was what I meant in my response to you I am sorry because it was not) nor would I give her one. I put a collar on soomeone and it measn one of two things to me, either I own you or we are about to play. Looking after her, keeping an eye on her, introducing her around, or just making sure she is comfortable would all be doable things. My question would be as a single submissive why would you want to lock yourself into a position where you were not speaking to anyone? You never know when a simple hello might start a friendship, find a fishing buddy, or by some stoke of cosmic luck be the next great love of your life. Why would you ever want to shut yourself of from meeting people. I have always found people expect more problems than ever exsist at such gatherings. I didn't mean there is anything wrong with as you said "thinking like a submissive". I do think the whole "protection collar" thing does feed into the myth that submissives can't think or be trusted to take care of themselves. Pesonally I have never been attracted to a woman who can't take care of herself. but then again I must be somewhat of a masochist since I like strong intelligent women "grins". K

Sweetheart1159 -> RE: "Protected "submissive (6/17/2006 8:44:57 AM)
If it makes her/him feel "safe", it's a good idea. Trust takes time and maybe for a first time, safe is the way to go. A master should honor his/her sub's need to feel safe. If they want a sub to "expand their horizons" they can "allow" them the space to do it a little at a time.

sublizzie -> RE: "Protected "submissive (6/17/2006 8:48:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: feastie It seems to me that the girl in question was scared by the teasing. She'd yet to meet any of you, and yet, you were all telling her how she was going to be spanked, flogged, etc. She sounds like a newbie and she did what she felt she must to protect herself from the big, bad meanies. Simple case of misunderstanding, I think...and certainly not worth branding her the idiot. It took my friend over 2 years to get me to go to a public or private gathering. If I had been on a list and been teased like that girl, I would have left and never returned. As it is, I have my friend's permission to use him to hide behind any time I want. I haven't needed to use it yet, but I appreciate the protection he has offered me time and time again. Tonight I'm off to my first play party where I'll be a full participant. I'm very nervous, but at least the mind fucks people have been playing on me all week are from those I know and trust. Still nerve-wracking, but not to the point of me running off screaming into the night!

juliaoceania -> RE: "Protected "submissive (6/17/2006 8:55:57 AM)
It wasnt your post, but others on other threads even. There just seems to be a lot of ridiculing of the protection collar. I will find out soon enough for myself whether others in real time think the same way about it as people online do. I think cyber collars of protection are silly also, but to be honest I can understand new submissives feeling like they want one in the real world. I mainly wanted you to know I did not think your posts ridiculed anyone.

artglfr -> RE: "Protected "submissive (6/17/2006 9:05:58 AM)
Any sub wearing a collar just so they could watch and then decided she wanted to take the collar off and join the fun would be questioned...a collar is to most of us very sacred and special...to me it means I have been with this person enough to trust them and grant her this collar so all the world will know she is mine, she is special and precious. as for a new sub asking me to watch out for them, certainly most of us do it anyway at any Play environment just keep an eye out to see who is safe and who to watch more carefully. As for giving her a collar...NO not just no but hell No!!! Collars mean something to Me and to the people I associate with. They aren't just handed out to anyone who asks. As for protecting a new sub that ask I would and no collar would be necessary. I would keep her close and monitor her actions, question her on her views and introduce her to people I feel she may enjoy.

Stassy -> RE: "Protected "submissive (6/17/2006 9:19:47 AM)
hi, what does 'vanillas' mean?

juliaoceania -> RE: "Protected "submissive (6/17/2006 11:32:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: artglfr Any sub wearing a collar just so they could watch and then decided she wanted to take the collar off and join the fun would be questioned...a collar is to most of us very sacred and special...to me it means I have been with this person enough to trust them and grant her this collar so all the world will know she is mine, she is special and precious. as for a new sub asking me to watch out for them, certainly most of us do it anyway at any Play environment just keep an eye out to see who is safe and who to watch more carefully. As for giving her a collar...NO not just no but hell No!!! Collars mean something to Me and to the people I associate with. They aren't just handed out to anyone who asks. As for protecting a new sub that ask I would and no collar would be necessary. I would keep her close and monitor her actions, question her on her views and introduce her to people I feel she may enjoy. I respectfully disagree, not everyone views collars this way. Maybe the people you know do, but there are some people that view them as a fetish object and they are not morally inferior for it. If someone wants to scene with a collar on so they can be controlled through collar bondage it is not the same as someone that wears a "full collar". I could make the distinction that not every ring is a wedding ring for example, it depends on the context of the ring as to what it means. Most people hate that analogy, but there it is. If my vanilla boyfriend bought me a pinkie ring or a toe ring, it would not be the same as an engagement or wedding ring. If my son buys me a mother's ring, it is not the same as a cocktail ring. I could buy myself a class ring, and it has no relationship connotation whatsoever. These symbols just are what they are. The collar to you is a symbol of commitment. Symbols are used to communicate meaning. Symbols mean different things to different people. Personally if I decided to wear such a collar I wouldn't take it off, but why do you think it is yours to question anyone? The said submissive doesnt belong to you, so why does it matter to you what she wears on her neck? I am really trying to understand and asking these questions sincerely. I understand that some people think that what others do in their life cheapens what they do in theirs. In other words some people think that it cheapens the collar as a symbol that others use it in a different way, but I do not view it that way. If you live in a small area and there are maybe 100 people that go to play parties or munches then I understand your opinions. But if you are going to go and play at a large club where anyone can go, such as the club I am going to next weekend, it is a whole different world. It is like comparing apples and oranges. The city I am going to is a megapolis with millions of people. Although there is a community of sorts, it is not the same as a smaller city. Not everyone knows each other, there are new people every weekend, and not everyone views collars the way you do. There are dominants there that think they can and should boss anyone that is a submissive, there are others that view it as a meat market and troll for subs. This behavior is discouraged, and the dungeon master will kick someone out for being disrespectful, but the disrespectful behavior still happens.

PlayfulOne -> RE: "Protected "submissive (6/17/2006 2:47:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania If you live in a small area and there are maybe 100 people that go to play parties or munches then I understand your opinions. But if you are going to go and play at a large club where anyone can go, such as the club I am going to next weekend, it is a whole different world. It is like comparing apples and oranges. The city I am going to is a megapolis with millions of people. Although there is a community of sorts, it is not the same as a smaller city. Not everyone knows each other, there are new people every weekend, and not everyone views collars the way you do. There are dominants there that think they can and should boss anyone that is a submissive, there are others that view it as a meat market and troll for subs. This behavior is discouraged, and the dungeon master will kick someone out for being disrespectful, but the disrespectful behavior still happens. What you are describing sounds more like a fetish club than a dungeon. There are fetish clubs which serve more as singles bars for the kinky rather than a dungeon of BDSM people. I have never been to a BDSM oriented dungeon which functioned that way and I have been to many. I have also been to fetish clubs that were one big meat market and that collar you wanted to buy at PetSmart and place around your neck would not have meant one thing from anyone there. The dungeons we go to and the people we know go to are by no means in a small area. Attend 2 or 3 times and you will see a pattern of a certain set of people who frequent that particular dungeon, there are never huge influxes of new people. They are not like some hot club where hordes of people wander in. Now some large fetish clubs on the other hand have much more in common with a hot night spot than a BDSM dungeon. Once you start dressing Art down on his view of Collars, please pick a view of your own and stick with it. You are lecturing him about the fact that collars can have no meaning, of course it can be used just for play or decoration, but he is answering your thoughts from earlier. You were the one giving the collar a meaning for protection, so he answered your question with his thoughts. I would agree with him, if you were wearing a collar to "be left alone" as you said earlier and then popped it off in the middle of things you should probably be prepared to receive a few harsh looks and probably be thought of as a player of sorts. K

juliaoceania -> RE: "Protected "submissive (6/17/2006 3:19:21 PM)
I was not dressing him down.... and to be honest i have no view of collars other than when I am fully collared I view it as a serious commitment. I stated that a collar is a symbol, like a ring, different collars are used as different symbols Im a rebel sort outside the context of my dynamic, and I do what I feel like with my own person as long as I do not infringe on anyone else's life and respect their space. If I want to wear a collar and take it off I would, its my body until a dom owns it or I give my consent over for a specific scene. I do not think I would care if people judged me so narrowly as to think ill of me for my use of a collar. But like I said before, I wouldnt do that if I decided I did not want to be bugged, I wouldnt want to be bugged for the whole night. This reminds me of the gay marriage debate "If gays can get married it threatens all marriages". "If you use a collar casually it denigrates all collars". Everyone has a right to view others any way they want. I have some small minded ideas stuck in my head that I am constantly trying to revise, such as judging someone for their attire. Maybe thinking they are dressed inappropriately for a situation. I do not believe the Lair in LA is a fetish swinging club as they have very stringent rules there, you can look it up. From what I have been told there are different people in there all the time, and not everyone is polite to novices and there are some doms that are waiting for fresh uncollared faces to arrive on the scene. I think that sometimes dominants do not understand what it is to be a submissive in a strange place or why we would feel overwhelmed by the strangeness of it all. The dominant I am seeing has given a collar of protection to two different submissives that were new to the scene so they would feel comfortable and talk to whom they wanted to talk to if they wanted to talk to anyone. It was in the context of going out where public play, and he did not try to keep them from playing with anyone they wanted to play with. It was a way for them not to have to deal with unwanted attention and it worked for them. I see nothing wrong in this if sub gains some comfort in joining in the lifestyle slowly. Personally I am a very strong willed sort, but not all are like me. Some subs even have social anxiety to start with, and then throw in D/s., it could be overwhelming.

CrappyDom -> RE: "Protected "submissive (6/17/2006 6:42:57 PM)
Julia, At a fetish event collars are worn or not worn as fashion statements. I will bet you and yours dinner (if you two ever get to Sac) that wearing a collar doesn't "protect" you from anything. In fact, it might make it worse for you. The people to whom a collar means nothing will not care and will hit on you if they want to. Lair DeSade from my understanding is a pretty broad mix and being LA, etiquette is going to be fast and loose. So, anyone whom might respect your collar are probably the few with whom you would most enjoy having a conversation but are the ones who will give you the widest berth. Food for thought.

PlayfulOne -> RE: "Protected "submissive (6/17/2006 6:49:46 PM)
well since every other thing on the web site says, fetish life style, how to do fetish, if it walks like a duck, quack quack. It has meat market written all over it. There is a similar type club down this direction which is not one we ever seriously considered going to. The one I am refering to here just runs in a different manner and draws a vastly different crowd from the more serious (for lack of a better term) dungeons. Please stop insulting the dominants you know by refering to the trolls hanging out there looking for "fresh meat: ,as dominants. They are anything but. The club here I would compare to that one has things go on and behavior which wouldn't last 5 minutes in the other dungeons. K

Sinergy -> RE: "Protected "submissive (6/17/2006 7:06:54 PM)
Hello A/all, I have given protection collars to various submissive friend in my life that were going with my partners at the time, to the Lair DeSade or play parties. These were offered and accepted with no hidden agenda on my part. I even informed them that if any playing with them happened, it would not be by me. I have also offered to various submissives that "If somebody gives you a hard time, tell them to take it up with me." I have no problem politely informing some jackass to leave the person alone, and I am more than willing to do so for my friends. I have mentored two submissives into this lifestyle. I was asked by one of them 4 months into it to take me as her own. I declined her offer. I view the power relationship between a mentor and a student as being one where the student is not at the same level as I am in the power structure, so I tend to view consensuality to be suspect. I informed her to wait 6 months (out of my mentorship) and look me up if she was still interested. She married some other Dom a few years ago. I am happy for them. Just me, could be wrong, etc. Sinergy

CrappyDom -> RE: "Protected "submissive (6/17/2006 7:31:13 PM)
Sinergy, If you actually do what you say you do (sorry for the cynicism) then you are a rare man among men! Your post is one I agree with strongly both as how to act and as a critique of why I dislike the games that go on around "mentoring" and "protecting" submissives.

Sinergy -> RE: "Protected "submissive (6/17/2006 7:43:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CrappyDom Sinergy, If you actually do what you say you do (sorry for the cynicism) then you are a rare man among men! Your post is one I agree with strongly both as how to act and as a critique of why I dislike the games that go on around "mentoring" and "protecting" submissives. The best quote on this subject, which I heartily agree with, comes from Liam Neeson in Rob Roy. "Honor is a gift a man gives himself." I am the one who has to live with me. And I am the one who sets the bar for my behavior. Just me, could be wrong, etc. Sinergy

ImpGrrl -> RE: "Protected "submissive (6/17/2006 8:50:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania The collar to you is a symbol of commitment. But see - Anyone wearing a collar for the express purpose of not being "hit on" is banking on the fact that anyone who would avoid her because of the collar is seeing the symbol in the same way. And that, to me, is the difference. The person wearing a collar to avoid having to deal with folks (because that's really what it is) is lying by wearing that collar - they are trying to project "taken", so that they won't be bothered. The person wearing a collar for fashion or a scene is not lying - just interpreting the symbol differently.

juliaoceania -> RE: "Protected "submissive (6/17/2006 9:00:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ImpGrrl quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania The collar to you is a symbol of commitment. But see - Anyone wearing a collar for the express purpose of not being "hit on" is banking on the fact that anyone who would avoid her because of the collar is seeing the symbol in the same way. And that, to me, is the difference. The person wearing a collar to avoid having to deal with folks (because that's really what it is) is lying by wearing that collar - they are trying to project "taken", so that they won't be bothered. The person wearing a collar for fashion or a scene is not lying - just interpreting the symbol differently. How is she lying if a dominant gave it to her as a symbol of protection? I fail to see a lie in that.

ImpGrrl -> RE: "Protected "submissive (6/17/2006 9:08:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania How is she lying if a dominant gave it to her as a symbol of protection? I fail to see a lie in that. Earlier in the thread, you were talking about the PetSmart-purchased collar, bought for herself, put on by herself. It was this which I was referring to. I also believe that taking a collar of protection is disingenuous - I feel as LA does on that - but it's not outright lying.

juliaoceania -> RE: "Protected "submissive (6/17/2006 9:16:27 PM)
Well I was tongue in cheek about that. I wasnt actually talking about that situation for most of my posts. I was actually drawing an analogy from someone that wears a ring on a cruise to keep men away. I respect your opinion, but I would respectfully add that one should walk a mile in another's shoes before judging them. Personally I am rather good at speaking up for myself and I am not shy about telling someone to go F*** himself. But there are women in this world that are extremely shy or have social anxiety in groups, but want to overcome this by feeling as though they have someone to watch out for them. If the collar gives them that feeling of security, well you can think they are "weak" or whatever, but I think that I applaud their courage to step out of their comfort zone, even if they feel they need a symbol to be "kept safe". I am not going to ridicule this. Personally I wouldnt go to a club without an escort I was seeing on a steady basis, someone that i thought was worth pursuing a dynamic with. But that is me and others are different.

irishbynature -> RE: "Protected "submissive (6/18/2006 4:32:07 PM)
... Protective collars.........Four years ago, I attended a lecture about D/s (workshops, speakers...lunch) because I wanted to simply learn more. On the 2nd day, I was invited by one of the hostesses to a "play party" after the seminar. I was told there would be various "scenes, viewing rooms, etc"....blah , blah...The Hostess felt that since I was not collared and (my former dom) was out of town...it would be PROPER protocol for me to wear a protective collar to this event. I was told it was to keep others from "attempting" to play with me. Hence, this party had over 100 guests...and others there would also be wearing protective collars. I did not attend this function. However, depending on protocol or varying beliefs from one relationship to another, a protective collar was considered completely appropriate and often times, necesssary. All I've seen is an attack on Juliaoceania when she is doing nothing more than what is done in many scenes. I hope some of you who have all the correct answers ENLIGHTEN the rest of us with "BDSM 101...MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY" ....please, I'd gladly buy your book. [:o]

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