RE: A "forward" sub......

Join Our Community

Collarchat.com

Home Login Search

RE: A "forward" sub......

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive >> RE: A "forward" sub......

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: A "forward" sub...... - 11/17/2012 9:11:02 AM

Posts: 185
Joined: 7/4/2012
Status: offline

Hi all,

thanks, you've given me alot to think about. He emailed me this morning asking me where we stood, and quite frankly, I don't know how to answer that. I agree with what alot of you have said that he gave me the go ahead to be open, we had only met once for coffee so were in no way in a dynamic yet, and he shot me down without giving me much information about what I had really done wrong and how I could rectify it. I'm debating whether to just cut my losses and move on, or try to explain to him what's going on in my head and see where it goes from there......

Alot of you have asked what was originally said in order to give me better advice, so here goes...... We were bantering and joking over text - we weren't having a serious discussion, it had alot of smiley faces and LOLs. I had made a request (not a demand) and at some time in our texting he asked how I would react if he said no to my requests. I had interpreted that as an in general thing, not just referring to the request I had just made. I'm totally paraphrasing here, but I answered that I guess it depended on what my request was and why I was making it. Then I said (and I think this is what he didn't like, tho I'm still not entirely sure) that he got as much benefit as I did if it was a request for something that would make me feel more submissive. In my head it was said playfully and flirtatiously, but I can see how over text that nuance was totally lost.......

(in reply to Missokyst)

RE: A "forward" sub...... - 11/17/2012 9:17:00 AM

Kana

Posts: 6674
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

thanks, you've given me alot to think about. He emailed me this morning asking me where we stood, and quite frankly, I don't know how to answer that.

Say, "We need to talk," then commence communicating, preferably FTF, not via email, chat or phone

< Message edited by Kana -- 11/17/2012 9:18:13 AM >

_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to littleone14)

RE: A "forward" sub...... - 11/17/2012 9:26:21 AM

MAINEiacMISTRESS

Posts: 1180
Joined: 9/12/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: MAINEiacMISTRESS
I wish you had actually stated WHAT it was you had said. Really we can't make a TRUE judgement about him without knowing.

I agree with this sentiment and feel duly chastised.

That being said, even as I think now with new eyes I'm wondering if it really matters? The bottom line is that the follower is left in confusion about what the leader wants... enough so that she comes to random strangers to seek insight. "It's not a good idea to tell a dominant what to do" is not a clarifying statement. Rather, it makes some vague assertion about possible negative consequences to an unspecified act.

Me: I want you to get dolled up. We're going to a burlesque show tonight.
Her: You can go if you want. I'm tired after working.

At that point I could say something like what this girl's dom said. Or, I could be more specific and say something like, "I appreciate you letting me know that you are tired. But you rather assertively declared what you were and were not going to do. Who do you think you belong to? Yourself or me?"

At which point she could've said something like, "Ahhhhh... how would you like me to phrase such information in the future?"

And from there goodness happens.

Yes, I agree with this.

In your example, the "assertiveness" of the sub: "You can go if you want" (in essence she is giving YOU permission), and, "I'm tired after working," (she is brushing off your instructions without asking if it could be done another day), when from the beginning of the relationship she has been classifying herself as a submissive, YOUR submissive because by now the relationship has been formed, is definitely a case of a sub telling her Dom what to do.

There are better ways to word discomfort, or even refusal, and it does take practice and AWARENESS of which words to choose, etc. For instance, in the above example, the sub would have been better wording it, "Can we PLEASE do it another night? I'm so tired from work and everything hurts." That puts the ball into the Dominant's court, and gives information the Dom needs to assess the situation and therefore be the one who decides whether the show will be attended or not.

For those who enjoy Protocol D/s interactions, it might be worded, "I'm very tired and my feet hurt badly from working all day, Sir. May I have permission to stay home tonight?"

EXPLAINING the problem, and turning it over to the Dominant to decide how things proceed actually might end up GAINING the sub something nice. If subby is lucky, perhaps the Dominant might simpathize and decide they should spend the evening soaking in the jacuzzi and ordering dinner delivered. :)

During the early stages of a D/s relationship it can be especially clumsy if one or both are NEW at it. This is where communication skills are honed between sub and Dominant. There are differences within each new relationship as well. When you meet someone, you have to learn how they communicate, customs they may have been raised under, etc.

(in reply to JeffBC)

RE: A "forward" sub...... - 11/17/2012 10:26:48 AM

Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline

Agree with the idea that while you are getting used to the way the two of you communicate, each participant needs to cut the other a little slack.

OP, maybe he saw what you said about him getting benefits from agreeing to your requests as being somewhat manipulative. And most people don't like to think they are being manipulated.

This convo. needs to be continued face-to-face.

If relationships can be cut off so fast, i wouldn't be in my current relationship. I misread my initial email from my sweetie and turned up at the wrong restaurant for our initial meet. He was gracious enough to give me a second chance. That was two years ago - two years of fun and games that i would have missed out on because he didn't cut me some slack.

(in reply to MAINEiacMISTRESS)

RE: A "forward" sub...... - 11/17/2012 10:57:16 AM

Posts: 185
Joined: 7/4/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

OP, maybe he saw what you said about him getting benefits from agreeing to your requests as being somewhat manipulative. And most people don't like to think they are being manipulated.

Yes, I can totally see how what I said could have been misinterpreted, and how the tone of how I was thinking it wouldn't come across by text. I take full ownership of that. He's just not giving me much to go on as to what exactly I did to cross his line, where his line is, and how I could correct it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Say, "We need to talk," then commence communicating, preferably FTF, not via email, chat or phone

Good advice. I'm going to do this and see where it goes. I really did like him as a person. In a vanilla sense he is totally someone I would enjoy hanging out with. What happened could either be a huge red flag, or just a place to start communication. I won't know til we try to talk about it.

(in reply to kiwisub12)

RE: A "forward" sub...... - 11/17/2012 11:04:47 AM

Posts: 14415
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleone14

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Say, "We need to talk," then commence communicating, preferably FTF, not via email, chat or phone

Good advice. I'm going to do this and see where it goes. I really did like him as a person. In a vanilla sense he is totally someone I would enjoy hanging out with. What happened could either be a huge red flag, or just a place to start communication. I won't know til we try to talk about it.

I'm going to say since you've only met once over coffee.....there should be no dynamic at this point.

That said, Kana has it right. I'm also going to add that a good Dominant sets his submissive up to succeed. That means that he gives her the toosl and information that she needs to fulfill her role. If he is unwilling to tell you what he thinks crossed the line, then think about how that will continue through out a relationship. Do you really want to be with someone that won't help you succeed? Not to mention that people are usually on their best behavior at the beginning of the relationship, which means that you can expect little things to become bigger things.

< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 11/17/2012 11:07:35 AM >

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to littleone14)

RE: A "forward" sub...... - 11/17/2012 11:12:43 AM

Posts: 185
Joined: 7/4/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

I'm also going to add that a good Dominant sets his submissive up to succeed. That means that he gives her the toosl and information that she needs to fulfill her role. If he is unwilling to tell you what he thinks crossed the line, then think about how that will continue through out a relationship. Do you really want to be with someone that won't help you succeed? Not to mention that people are usually on their best behavior at the beginning of the relationship, which means that you can expect little things to become bigger things.

Yes, that's been bugging me. Probably what has been keeping me from responding to him, even after I said I would in response to Kana. Wondering if its my instinct telling me not to get involved in this.......

(in reply to OsideGirl)

RE: A "forward" sub...... - 11/17/2012 11:32:55 AM

Posts: 6174
Status: offline

quote:

Wondering if its my instinct telling me not to get involved in this.......

Never ignore the voices in your head, or the knot in your gut.

_____________________________

yep

(in reply to littleone14)

RE: A "forward" sub...... - 11/17/2012 11:34:14 AM

Posts: 79
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: SIR LIX OF ATLANTA
Status: offline

quote:

Wondering if its my instinct telling me not to get involved in this......

You have gotten great advice from people on this.

So, what has happened so far that you think maybe it is your instinct telling you not to get involved in this?

In my opinion, you should communicate with him how you have gotten confused by his earlier comment that he would like a woman to be a certain way and now his reaction to what you sent to him via text. So, ask him what you said via text that may had suggested you were telling him what to do. If he can explain it to you, it might help to make sure you know which line not to cross in the future.

How he now responds to that, will tell you which way forward.

SL

(in reply to littleone14)

RE: A "forward" sub...... - 11/17/2012 11:38:56 AM

Posts: 6174
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MASTERLIX

quote:

Wondering if its my instinct telling me not to get involved in this......

You have gotten great advice from people on this.

So, what has happened so far that you think maybe it is your instinct telling you not to get involved in this?

In my opinion, you should communicate with him how you have gotten confused by his earlier comment that he would like a woman to be a certain way and now his reaction to what you sent to him via text. So, ask him what you said via text that may had suggested you were telling him what to do. If he can explain it to you, it might help to make sure you know which line not to cross in the future.

How he now responds to that, will tell you which way forward.

SL

For me, his missing the chance to communicate his expectations immediately would have sent up red flags.

Someone that needs to be told how to make their expectations clear is not someone I could ever consider submitting to. Maybe I have been lucky, but if it doesn't flow naturally and smoothly, especially in the beginning, I am runnin for them thar hills.

_____________________________

yep

(in reply to MASTERLIX)

RE: A "forward" sub...... - 11/17/2012 11:44:29 AM

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

I don't like being around anal people. By that I mean, I don't like being around overly sensitive, passive aggressive, crazy makers in confusion by saying one thing and meaning another and people easily upset. When I see signs of someone becoming overly anything early on and not handling the situation in the moment or expecting things that really are out of place for where we are, I think of six months down the road or a year or even five if I were stupid enough to go there and I tend to have my answer. I see this and I am gone after the first conversation to clear it up if it doesn't go well.

Life is challenging enough, but to think of a life challenge coming up and dealing with an anal person at the same time... sets my going red head, gunna eat somebody meter off and I know from times when it went off, it is just best not to go there.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)

RE: A "forward" sub...... - 11/17/2012 11:44:59 AM

Posts: 1834
Joined: 5/29/2012
From: The 'burbs of Portland, OR
Status: offline

FR

I think it really just comes down to asking yourself if you are wanting to find a resolution or if you are just cutting your losses. Is this something you feel can be salvaged? If it is, I am inclined to agree with what Kana had to say about meeting face to face to talk about the situation. I also thought that kiwisub had a good point too. Maybe it was just one huge misunderstanding all the way around? Or maybe it really is an indication of this being the way it will always be? Ultimately it comes down to what your gut tells you is the right path to take. Sometimes its good to give someone the benefit of the doubt if you feel you can reach them. Sometimes its better to cut bait and leave the fishing hole if you feel like you cant. In either case, good luck to you in whatever it is you decide is right for you.

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)

RE: A "forward" sub...... - 11/18/2012 12:51:25 AM

Posts: 599
Joined: 8/11/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleone14

Hi all,

What is everyone's take on being both forward and submissive?

I'm in the getting to know each other stage with a dom. He has told me various times that he likes a woman who knows what she wants, isn't afraid to ask for it, and has used the term "forward". We talked a bit about it, and I thought I understood his definition. Yesterday we were texting and I evidently went over the line and he wasn't pleased and said "not a good idea to tell a dom what to do". I didn't feel like I had (I thought I was answering a direct question), but we are talking about it, and figuring out where we stand on it.

Anyways, my question isn't so much about this specific incident, as it is how would this dynamic work in general. Does anyone have any experience or insight into it?

Thanks! littleone ~

I am a sub, but I am very outgoing and not shy. So I just act like myself. And that would be my suggestion - don't worry about the "dynamic." Be yourself. You'll connect with some people and not others.

No offense, but the dom you're describing sounds like a prick to me and I would call him on his bs. Frankly, there is nothing special about someone who designates themselves a dom/me. I have met lots of dommes who bore me or who I thought were dumb.

(in reply to littleone14)

RE: A "forward" sub...... - 11/18/2012 2:00:02 AM

Posts: 3648
Status: offline

Hmm, to have really great communication takes
time, I wouldn't be to critical at first when you
have a few false starts in the beginning, but I do
think the key is for him to be clear and
consistent about exactly what he wants from you
in this department.

-Aries

_____________________________

530 DAYS

(in reply to seekingreality)

RE: A "forward" sub...... - 11/18/2012 2:16:38 AM

MAINEiacMISTRESS

Posts: 1180
Joined: 9/12/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleone14

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

I'm also going to add that a good Dominant sets his submissive up to succeed. That means that he gives her the toosl and information that she needs to fulfill her role. If he is unwilling to tell you what he thinks crossed the line, then think about how that will continue through out a relationship. Do you really want to be with someone that won't help you succeed? Not to mention that people are usually on their best behavior at the beginning of the relationship, which means that you can expect little things to become bigger things.

Yes, that's been bugging me. Probably what has been keeping me from responding to him, even after I said I would in response to Kana. Wondering if its my instinct telling me not to get involved in this.......

Look, if you are having this much difficulty, then just tell him, "Sorry, I'm not feeling it." and cease communication. Next time tell a prospective dominant that you want to spend a month just being friends to get to know him WITH NO D/s at all so you can get a feel for whether he's the one.

(in reply to littleone14)

RE: A "forward" sub...... - 11/18/2012 4:32:54 AM

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline

I have to ask littleone, how much chemistry is there between you two? B/c from your posts I don't feel much in the way of chemistry with this guy (doesn't mean it's not there, maybe my 'feelings radar' is broke this morning).

Here are some posts from others on the board that resonated with me:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

The man asked you to be open and shot you down when you were. . . . If someone gives the OK about that and suddenly changes the rules they are either playing a game (bad sub you will be punished), or they are inconsistant. Either way I would move along because their style would not mesh with mine.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

Agree with the idea that while you are getting used to the way the two of you communicate, each participant needs to cut the other a little slack.

OP, maybe he saw what you said about him getting benefits from agreeing to your requests as being somewhat manipulative. And most people don't like to think they are being manipulated.

This convo. needs to be continued face-to-face.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

. . . a good Dominant sets his submissive up to succeed. That means that he gives her the tools and information that she needs to fulfill her role. If he is unwilling to tell you what he thinks crossed the line, then think about how that will continue through out a relationship. Do you really want to be with someone that won't help you succeed? Not to mention that people are usually on their best behavior at the beginning of the relationship, which means that you can expect little things to become bigger things.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Say, "We need to talk," then commence communicating, preferably FTF, not via email, chat or phone

I really would not continue the discussion about this over email. You need FTF, b/c then you can read body language. If this is not possible, use the phone. Tone of voice and tension in the voice can communicate a great deal.

_____________________________

(in reply to littleone14)

RE: A "forward" sub...... - 11/18/2012 7:02:09 AM

Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

I have to ask littleone, how much chemistry is there between you two? B/c from your posts I don't feel much in the way of chemistry with this guy (doesn't mean it's not there, maybe my 'feelings radar' is broke this morning).

I was wondering this same thing as I was reading new posts.

_____________________________

I am like a box of chocolates, you never know what variety you are going to get on any given day.

My crazy smells like jasmine, cloves and cat nip.

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)

RE: A "forward" sub...... - 11/18/2012 11:06:05 AM

Posts: 185
Joined: 7/4/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

I have to ask littleone, how much chemistry is there between you two? B/c from your posts I don't feel much in the way of chemistry with this guy (doesn't mean it's not there, maybe my 'feelings radar' is broke this morning).

When we went out for coffee there was quite a bit of chemistry. We have alot in common and I really enjoyed talking with him on a vanilla level. Plus, both of us were attracted to each other.

I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, especially because I get how my text came off so differently than I intended. But his response to it feels a bit passive agressive, which turns me off. That's probably where the seeming lack of chemistry is coming from.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

I really would not continue the discussion about this over email. You need FTF, b/c then you can read body language. If this is not possible, use the phone. Tone of voice and tension in the voice can communicate a great deal.

I've emailed him about talking face to face as people, not dom/sub but haven't heard back. If I don't hear back, well, I'll just have to write this off as lesson learned.......

< Message edited by littleone14 -- 11/18/2012 11:16:52 AM >

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)

RE: A "forward" sub...... - 11/18/2012 2:12:10 PM

NiceButMeanGirl

Posts: 2756
Joined: 11/4/2011
From: Bellingham, WA U.S.A.
Status: offline

Unless there's already an agreed-upon dynamic in place, my opinion is this Dom has no business telling the OP what she can or can't do. Myself, I prefer a submissive who is "forward," tells me what he thinks and speaks his own mind. Only when we have an agreed-upon dynamic do I "tell him the way it's going to be."

NBMG

_____________________________

I'm now SweetlySadistic1 on CollarSpace. NBMG is an old profile, please see my new one.

(in reply to littleone14)

RE: A "forward" sub...... - 11/18/2012 2:27:28 PM

Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NiceButMeanGirl

Unless there's already an agreed-upon dynamic in place, my opinion is this Dom has no business telling the OP what she can or can't do. Myself, I prefer a submissive who is "forward," tells me what he thinks and speaks his own mind. Only when we have an agreed-upon dynamic do I "tell him the way it's going to be."

NBMG

I agree. I think if you are allowing someone to tell you what to do before you have had some meetings, it seems desperate. Even if you feel like you have drop dead chemistry, its in everyones best interest to keep that under your hat until you have a much better idea if the person is compatible with you. If you arent doing that it appears you arent taking things seriously and are just agreeing to agree.

_____________________________

I am like a box of chocolates, you never know what variety you are going to get on any given day.

My crazy smells like jasmine, cloves and cat nip.

(in reply to NiceButMeanGirl)

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive >> RE: A "forward" sub......

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2024

Terms of Service

1.000