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RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 1:45:50 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Hmmm... then we only have his word that he even got the note. Though, I wouldnt be surprised he got something. Nor do I see something necessarily wrong about a "cease and desist" letter.

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 1:51:21 AM   
metamorfosis


Posts: 1132
Status: offline 		I'm not absolutely sure there's anything wrong with it either. But as far as I can tell, it doesn't violate TOS. And if he can be told not to post certain things even though they don't violate TOS, it raises questions about what other people might me told not to post. And the value of having a TOS.

Pam

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RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 3:25:29 AM   
Just0Plain0Mike


Posts: 127
Joined: 6/16/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Rules are guidelines. Some can be hard and fast, some need to be more flexible.


Which "guideline" were they interpreting when they told a certain poster not to post comments on circumcision or Jewish culture?

Pam



I looked but couldn't find it so, does the TOS say that you can't make statements that are derogatory based on race, religion, gender, etc? If it does, then the mods were within their rights to tell the OP to stop. If it doesn't, then they weren't.

Although I do see a bit of a work around in section 11 that basically states that if anyone complains about content they find offensive it will be reviewed and modified or erased at their discretion. Kind of a catch all.


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Profile   Post #: 543
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 3:30:51 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Is he obsessed with circumcision? Yes. But I find it ridiculous that he's told not to speak about it; just ignore him.

If every person that posted annoying shit got muzzled, this would be a quiet place.

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RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 3:48:49 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Yup. That's why I have him on ignore. Unfortunately everyone quotes him!

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Profile   Post #: 545
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 3:54:43 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis

What I mean is: I'm beginning to think all we really have is the pretense of rules.

Pam


Then you would be correct.

As I see it.


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RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 5:03:43 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Do we know what was said? Or was this his interpretation of what was said? I find it hard to believe that if the topic is circumcisions, he would not be able to post at all. I cannot say he was lying. I do know that particular poster sometimes interprets things a bit differently than I do, for example.

I once got a gold letter for saying "Was he circumcised?" that's the whole damn post, in the presence of a certain poster on these boards because it apparently might set said poster off.

Again.....making up TOS as you go along.

Here is the email with the name removed.

Please do not provoke ******* with the circumcision comments. Also, please report any of his posts that mentions it in connection with genetic predispositions.

I recieved it 9-15-12 from Gamma.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 1/7/2013 5:11:51 AM >

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RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 5:47:09 AM   
metamorfosis


Posts: 1132
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
I once got a gold letter for saying "Was he circumcised?" that's the whole damn post, in the presence of a certain poster on these boards because it apparently might set said poster off.


In which case, it may not be an example of favoritism. You were asked to stop provoking him. He was asked to stop making the comments. That does sound fair, except that it raises questions about the appropriateness of moderating for things outside of TOS.

Pam

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RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 5:59:23 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis


"except that it raises questions about the appropriateness of moderating for things outside of TOS."

Pam

DINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDING

We have a WINNERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

You just hit what I've been saying for 6 months.

Enforce TOS, ONLY TOS and nothing but TOS.
Don't make up things and call it a TOS violation.
Just because a mod doesn't PERSONALLY like a post or is afraid it might upset someone, doesn't mean it violates TOS.
If it doesnt violate TOS, it stays.

ETA. The belief that minor surgery has a link to genetic fitness or lack of same is also NOT a TOS violation.

It's silly as hell but it's not a violation.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 1/7/2013 6:01:22 AM >

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Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Profile   Post #: 549
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 6:20:29 AM   
metamorfosis


Posts: 1132
Status: offline 		I can see two sides of this. Moderating just by TOS might be impractical. Moderating outside of it might encourage favoritism.

Pam

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RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 6:28:17 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis

I can see two sides of this. Moderating outside of it might encourage favoritism.

Pam


"Moderating just by TOS might be impractical." How? It's worked really well for years hasn't it?

You can either use the rule book or not.

Either stick to it or throw it out the window.

What would you say if you were tooling down the highway on a nice sunny at 65 in a 65 MPH zone and a trooper pulls you over and tickets you with the reason of "I know the sign says 65 but I don't believe anyone should be allowed to travel over 50 on this stretch. Your court date is Tuesday at 9AM. Have a nice day"?

That's what has been happening on this site.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Profile   Post #: 551
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 6:49:46 AM   
TheLilSquaw


Posts: 2340
Joined: 10/24/2012
From: Middle River, MD
Status: offline 		I look at this much like I do playing a board game.
When I pull out Chutes and Ladders.
The rules are right there.
My UM can't make up or change the rules along the way because he is loosing.

The TOS is a set of rules, that as posters we not only AGREE to when we join but are expected to follow while posting and having profile on the other side.
If the MODS or owner decide to change those rules and not inform anyone.
How can we as members be held accountable, punished or moderated?
To our knowledge we are not violating the TOS or rules that we AGREED to.

So of course when we get moderated or simply receive a gold letter and we did not violate the TOS, we go "WTF?"
Of course we start to wonder if there is favoritism or a personal agenda being played out.
THAT is human nature IMO.
It also makes people very hesitant to post.
How can you follow the rules or even attempt to if you don't know what those rules are?

ETA: This does happen.
Hell it happened to me recently. Where a MOD removed a post and the gold email stated I didn't follow the TOS. Which they later admitted I did and reposted my post.
Reposting it isn't the point.
The point is I followed the guidelines.
You punished me anyways.








< Message edited by TheLilSquaw -- 1/7/2013 6:51:56 AM >

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RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 8:04:35 AM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Only certain groups have the privelege of complaining about derogatory terms.


This is true, and cultural, not something particular to CollarMe.

The N word is magic, and context doesn't matter; this was clarified at the highest level on CM, and mirrors how the media can't use that word when reporting a news story wherein the word is relayed. Historians will see this time period, if we leave any evidence, as having been more reverent about this "divine name" than any previous culture, and there may well be neonegroism as a religion in the future, similarly to neopaganism (grab bits and pieces from old stuff, rewrap it out of context, etc.).

Yet the word "kike" has already been used in this thread.

These are both just examples, of course. "White trash", like "kike", is treated differently, which is in line with US culture, as noted. Let's not even get into the number of different derogatory terms used for other groups, or the ones that aren't just a single word (and thus not a problem, because it's "amen" that matters, not "may it be so"; magic).

IWYW,
— Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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Profile   Post #: 553
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 8:06:46 AM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis

I agree that the rules need to be enforced as written.


I disagree. Rules need to be enforced with some comprehension.

quote:

People are complaining about unwritten rules.


Some of us are complaining about written rules.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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Profile   Post #: 554
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 8:17:57 AM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I find it hard to believe that if the topic is circumcisions, he would not be able to post at all.


I seem to recall debating the matter with you in a thread that died for unknown reasons.

That said, we don't know who said what to Rule, beyond his interpretation, and I don't expect the moderators to open up the process; this isn't a democracy (and thank goodness for that). Hillwilliam seems to have substantiated it well enough, though, and let's face it, this isn't something that would strike anyone as being out of character. Even I found the malecirc thing excessive, amusing as it might be in its own thread. Note, though, that Rule has stuck to what he was told, so hardly bad behavior in that sense.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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Profile   Post #: 555
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 11:35:09 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Hmmm... then we only have his word that he even got the note. Though, I wouldnt be surprised he got something. Nor do I see something necessarily wrong about a "cease and desist" letter.

A cease and desist letter would certainly beat a ban for two months.
Or is that why you think his story might not be on the level?

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RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 11:38:49 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
These are both just examples, of course. "White trash", like "kike", is treated differently, which is in line with US culture, as noted. Let's not even get into the number of different derogatory terms used for other groups, or the ones that aren't just a single word (and thus not a problem, because it's "amen" that matters, not "may it be so"; magic).

It's worth remembering the context thing: I've had mods asking me what this that or the other word means when I'm on approval. I suppose that's an upshot of having moderators sourced entirely from the 'States, but it does still make you wonder if they're going to be fully competent to deal with the fact that non American anglophones are often going to have idioms that differ from their own.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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Profile   Post #: 557
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 11:41:03 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

non American anglophones

Them's fightin words. We can't help if if y'all cant speak English the way it was intended.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Profile   Post #: 558
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 11:43:39 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

You can either use the rule book or not.


They are using the rule book.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 559
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 11:49:35 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

You can either use the rule book or not.


They are using the rule book.

Want proof they arent? I can come up with more emails.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 560
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