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Mental Health, Self Esteem and the Dom's Responsibility


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Mental Health, Self Esteem and the Dom's Responsibility - 11/7/2004 11:21:47 AM   
MistressFire70


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Disclaimers: I hope the Master whom I quoting answers, because I'm posting this as an introduction to a topic, not as a flame about what he does and doesn't believe. I also use Master as a gender neutral term. Sorry for the length, but it’s a topic that hits home for me.

When reading the Finances thread, I ran across an answer that contained the following statement:
"Master takes on the responsibility and should be prepared for the responsibility for the mental health and self esteem of his slave."

What I think he's trying to say is this: We, as Masters, have the responsibility to create a positive atmosphere for the slave. One in which the slave can prosper and grow. Positive re-enforcement balanced by corrective punishment creates this atmosphere.

What I hope he's NOT saying is this: We, as Masters, are THE deciding factor that makes our slaves depressed or have low-self esteem. If the slave is unhappy, it is our fault. If the slave feels unworthy, this too is our fault.

It's the second item (which is probably NOT what he meant at all) I feel I must speak about. As someone who is bipolar (on successful medication) and as someone who was molested throughout her childhood (dealt with by deep self evaluation and good therapy), I'm here to tell you that sometimes, being unhappy and having low self esteem is just not ANYone's fault. Sometimes these situations are created by a chemical imbalance or areas that need therapy to address. Expecting someone else to make it all better is just not a sane concept.

Turning over responsibility for your mental health is unhealthy, at best and dangerous for all, at worst. For example, what if the Master of a bipolar slave has decided that he or she no longer needs medication because the Master believes they can control the slave enough to replace it. It’s not at all uncommon for bipolar people to have both suicidal and homicidal ideation. Because this idea of control is a replacement for medication is just NOT reality, the extreme end result could be one or more people dead. And, this is just one of the myriad of mental health situations one could encounter.

We are each responsible for our own mental health no matter if we are Master or slave; we must each take care of ourselves in order to be worthy to serve or be served. We can encourage the other, we can create a positive household for each other and we can support each other in times of crisis, but in the end, it’s up to each of us to seek out the professional help we need. If you are going into a household where someone has a mental health disorder, do your research. Ask about how these things manifest themselves in your partner. And for heaven’s sake, make sure you’re partner stays on their medication!

Fire

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RE: Mental Health, Self Esteem and the Dom's Responsibi... - 11/7/2004 11:47:04 AM   
LadySonelle


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I agree with you! For issues that have taken place in a person's past, BDSM, properly used and utilised, can be VERY beneficial (or horrendously detrimental!!) to both parties. When chemical imbalances pertain, however, things shift at once!

By all means, ANYONE who is on psychoactive or ameliorative medication should stay on it! Always review, periodically, the effectiveness of such medicaments and follow a doctor's advice. Sudden or ill-advised withdrawal can be catastrophic in its consquences.

If a Dom/me advises withdrawal from a regularly taken medication, for *whatever* reason, without the advice of a physician... run like the wind!

You have, indeed, reminded us that situations alone are not the sole cause of psychic disturbances and for that, I thank you! ity should not have slipped My mind, and it did.

Lady Sonelle

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RE: Mental Health, Self Esteem and the Dom's Responsibi... - 11/7/2004 12:16:47 PM   
MrThorns


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I feel that a Master is responsible for creating an environment in which their slaves may flourish. This includes providing an environment which provides for any mental health or self esteem issues. I believe that each individual is responsible for their own health and well being, the Master only provides the environment.

~Thorns

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~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

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RE: Mental Health, Self Esteem and the Dom's Responsibi... - 11/7/2004 12:36:56 PM   
NoCalOwner


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To the above good advice, I'd add that, in my opinion, every dominant has the responsibility to avoid doing anything which will encourage an unhealthy psyche in their sub(s), or which they are being asked to do because of existing unhealthy traits. I've had a mentally ill person beg me to do horrible things to them. It's important to realize that sometimes even being begged is not valid consent.

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-- Bertrand Russell

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RE: Mental Health, Self Esteem and the Dom's Responsibi... - 11/7/2004 4:59:45 PM   
angelthighhighs


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both Dominants and submissives have basically the same responsibilities i believe....part of that is taking care of our own well being whether mental or phsyical. yes the opposite side is also responsible to a point as far as to make sure environment is safe and positive...but much of it we must do for ourselves. its not someone elses sole responsibility to take care of us....or to make us happy.

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RE: Mental Health, Self Esteem and the Dom's Responsibi... - 11/7/2004 5:37:10 PM   
newflowers


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I can agree the the dominant partner is a D/s relationship does bare a significant part in creating the environment, however both partners are responsible for maintaining that environment.

newflowers

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RE: Mental Health, Self Esteem and the Dom's Responsibi... - 11/8/2004 10:22:14 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

When reading the Finances thread, I ran across an answer that contained the following statement:
"Master takes on the responsibility and should be prepared for the responsibility for the mental health and self esteem of his slave."


I believe I am the one quoted here.

The quote stands on it's own. Whether you realize it or not, anytime you enter into a relationship you take on this responsibility for your partner. Someone has already noted that this responsibility is reciprocal. It assuredly is!

It isn't implied that the slave now is free of all self responsibility. The statement was in the context of entering into a 24/7 live in Master / slave relationship. It was addressing the seriousness of that responsibility for each person. It covers discussion of expectation, of rules, and of behavior in the relationship; specific to a Master. He is responsible. He's responsible for being all that he said he would be when such a relationship was contemplated. The same is expected from the slave.

Emotional issues, and problems more often stem from people abandoning and shirking responsibility. A Master is definitely responsible for creating a positive atmosphere and responsible for allowing future personal and even spiritual growth. My personal belief is that includes financial as well, but I've already address that aspect. And it's a PERSONAL belief. A Master can be responsible for the slaves depression and low self esteem if he is inconsistent in his training, vacillates in his follow-up, ignores his slave, or becomes lazy. If these reasons become the cause of the slaves depression he was responsible.

For example, if in my contract with beth, it was important to her, that every Friday at 10:00 PM she knelt at my feet and read off from a written list, all her failures and rule breaking transgressions from the prior week, and I didn't do so - I would be responsible if that failure caused her to feel ignored. If I told her to write in a journal, and didn't periodically read it and comment in it - I would be responsible for her feeling of insecurity and abandonment. Conversely if these were my rules and she didn't comply, she would be responsible for her lack of commitment, and I would be responsible for inflicting corrective actions. As we agreed - as we expected. We both have responsibility to the relationship.

I have no experience with anyone who has a chemical imbalance, or other physical infirmary. But I think it ridiculous for a slave or a Master to consider a Master / slave relationship a substitute for medication. Would you stop taking insulin if your Master said you didn't need it anymore as his slave?

I find that the abandonment of responsibility is a major problem in American society. We have become a society of 'enablers'. We want a magic pill to cure all our ills. We don't want to work out or cut back on some foods to lose weight we want a pill. We don't want to go to school develop a career path to become financially independent - we want a government program. Everyone wants something, or someone else to replace self responsibility and self determination. Just look at the next generation we are raising, geared to blame everyone but themselves for their situation....

...A child isn't disruptive or a behavior problem in class - he's ADD and needs medication, it's not his, the schools, or his parents fault - ergo, NO ONE is 'responsible'.

...A child can't read, but is too old to be in this class, "no child is left behind", pass him, it's not his responsibility to read.

...The job applicant can't read the application, he was passed on in school, it's not his responsibility to learn.

....The employee can't make change because he can't add, it's not his responsibility, lets put pictures of the hamburgers we sell on the cash register keys and have the register automatically make change, it's not his responsibility to know if someone give you $2.06 for a $1.81 cent charge that you have to give back a quarter.

....A person wants to drink, take drugs, and as a result lives on the streets. He's not responsible for his actions, lets feed him, cloth him, and house him at taxpayer expense so he can use any money he begs for drugs and drink.

....A student drops out of high school because it's too boring, too easy, too hard, too crowded, too 'whatever'. The parent(s) allow it - "It's not your fault honey!" There are a LOT of jobs and careers out there for 16-17 year old high school drop outs. And you'll get a raise every time the minimum wage goes up. (see burger flipping - noted above)

In the past 25 years we've developed new 'diseases' as behavior excuses. Terms such as OCD, ADD, Bipolar, weren't even in existence. Now we have them, AND the medication to treat them. It's not a coincidence. Is CF-IDS (Chronic Fatigue Immune Dysfunction Syndrome) a real disease or another name for being lazy and wanting to stay in bed all day? Even the experts can't agree on this one.

What's the matter with being responsible? What's the matter with commitment? And what's the matter when pointing out how lack of responsibility, and failure to project the consequences of your actions, determined your own fate?

It's often asked how can a person gain trust, or how can I determine if someone is trustworthy? Easy - see how they take on their responsibilities, even the mundane and daily, like cleaning up after themselves, or picking up their towel after a shower, or putting the coffee cups in the sink or dishwasher when they are done. Trust me (lol) responsible behavior isn't selective. Usually a person is - or isn't consistently.


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RE: Mental Health, Self Esteem and the Dom's Responsibi... - 11/8/2004 11:47:22 AM   
MistressFire70


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Merc,

Thank you so much for replying. I didn't want to name names and sound accusatory when I felt you probably meant it in a good way. I've been reading your posts, along with others, and it didn't sound like something you'd believe or practice. But I totally felt it needed to be discussed, in case others misinterpreted what was said.

Now, the abandonment of responsibility is also a good topic for discussion! In areas of mental health, it can be too easy to rely on the medication to do all the work (I'm talking specifically where medication is truly needed). Many can fall into this trap, especially in the got-a-pill-for-everything society that you described. WE are ultimately responsible for our own mental health. WE are responsible for taking our meds, it's up to us to do self-care items and it's up to us to remove ourselves from harmful relationships or situations. Each individual is worth this effort and should give themselves nothing less.

Actions are also another area. “I did (insert bad behavior) because my (insert influential person) did (insert some bad thing) to me as a child.” Of course it’s terrible to be abused as a child (or adult), and I know first hand, BUT, how we allow it to affect us is something that we DO have control over. Letting what others do or say drag us down and make us into people we don’t want to be is giving away our POWER. Does taking back the power come easy? Hell no! Can it be done? Absolutely. Being a victim, in most cases, isn’t a conscious choice. Remaining a victim IS.

Man, I’m totally grooving on the soap box this week. I think I need a bigger box.

Fire


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you have come to a great chasm. Jump. It's not as wide as you think.

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RE: Mental Health, Self Esteem and the Dom's Responsibi... - 11/8/2004 4:02:15 PM   
Nvernilla


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Everyone is different and needs their own special program to attian their level. No two are alike.....Mykal

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RE: Mental Health, Self Esteem and the Dom's Responsibi... - 11/8/2004 4:44:35 PM   
Nvernilla


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Everyone is unique and deserves their own training program. No two are exactly alike...Mykal

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RE: Mental Health, Self Esteem and the Dom's Responsibi... - 11/9/2004 11:31:29 AM   
slavewithnoname


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quote:

It's often asked how can a person gain trust, or how can I determine if someone is trustworthy? Easy - see how they take on their responsibilities, even the mundane and daily, like cleaning up after themselves, or picking up their towel after a shower, or putting the coffee cups in the sink or dishwasher when they are done. Trust me (lol) responsible behavior isn't selective. Usually a person is - or isn't consistently.


Touche` Sir..... I couldn't agree with you more on that statement!



quote:

Now, the abandonment of responsibility is also a good topic for discussion! In areas of mental health, it can be too easy to rely on the medication to do all the work (I'm talking specifically where medication is truly needed). Many can fall into this trap, especially in the got-a-pill-for-everything society that you described. WE are ultimately responsible for our own mental health. WE are responsible for taking our meds, it's up to us to do self-care items and it's up to us to remove ourselves from harmful relationships or situations. Each individual is worth this effort and should give themselves nothing less.


quote:

Actions are also another area. “I did (insert bad behavior) because my (insert influential person) did (insert some bad thing) to me as a child.” Of course it’s terrible to be abused as a child (or adult), and I know first hand, BUT, how we allow it to affect us is something that we DO have control over. Letting what others do or say drag us down and make us into people we don’t want to be is giving away our POWER. Does taking back the power come easy? Hell no! Can it be done? Absolutely. Being a victim, in most cases, isn’t a conscious choice. Remaining a victim IS.


This is a message that I have repeated thousands of times.. to people of all walks of life, with all diffrent past experiences. It is also my own explination when I am asked "How did I not let <insert past experience here> effect me"... Well said Mistress Fire!


< Message edited by slavewithnoname -- 11/9/2004 11:38:07 AM >


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RE: Mental Health, Self Esteem and the Dom's Responsibi... - 11/9/2004 11:41:54 AM   
Voltare


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Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.--Aristotle

To be fair, I don't like doing dishes after I eat, I prefer to do dishes before I cook again. I always put them in the sink, and always rinse them (rinsing means they will soak overnight.)

One of the biggest grey areas I think, are the spots where mental health and kink cross. An early lesson I learned, was that I cannot be priest, psychologist, Master, and boyfriend at the same time. I leave God and Freud out of my relationships now, and leave those parts to the professionals.

Stephan

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"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

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RE: Mental Health, Self Esteem and the Dom's Responsibi... - 11/9/2004 4:45:54 PM   
serenity2u


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Lets see where do i start..Responsibilty is both. in health,and emotionally..I recently found a sweet Dom who I thought felt the same about me but come to find out He didn't feel the same and walked away saying distance was the reason. Why do people just walk away without a word or considering the others feelings.? Is that a responsibility in helping to provide a way to them or to get closer any way they can? Instead they choose to walk away scarring a heart..A Doms responsibility is meeting His needs and helping His selected one to meet them with Him..TOGETHER!! I have yet to see that much of any responsibiltity from any Dominant that seeks a soulmate.I like this article and I believe we can learn alot from MercnBeth. I love Their articles and knowledge.Thank you for sharing your experiences it has helped many of us Im sure. be ssc always serenity

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serenity

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RE: Mental Health, Self Esteem and the Dom's Responsibi... - 11/10/2004 10:23:40 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

I have yet to see that much of any responsibiltity from any Dominant that seeks a soulmate.I like this article and I believe we can learn alot from MercnBeth. I love Their articles and knowledge.Thank you for sharing your experiences it has helped many of us Im sure.


serenity,

WOW - I referred to beth when seeing this comment. I had to ask her how to respond. she said with "pride and humility". So, with pride but with much more humility - THANK you for those comments

It always surprises me when we get that reaction, because to us it's just a way of life. There is no work or effort from either of us. The only frustration comes when life issues force us to be apart. Whether it's a week, day, or a few hours; each reunion hug renews our passion.

I don't think 'soul-mate' is too strong a definition. In fact, holding beth this morning I had her promise that next time we wouldn't wait so long in life to find each other. We agreed to come back as next door neighbors and as kids play all the fun doctor's games and cowboys/Indians, pirates, and captured spy and interrogator.




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RE: Mental Health, Self Esteem and the Dom's Responsibi... - 11/10/2004 10:40:16 AM   
Voltare


Posts: 841
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From: Santiago, Chile
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quote:

ORIGINAL: serenity2u

Lets see where do i start..Responsibilty is both. in health,and emotionally..I recently found a sweet Dom who I thought felt the same about me but come to find out He didn't feel the same and walked away saying distance was the reason. Why do people just walk away without a word or considering the others feelings.?


Having been on both sides of this coin, I feel terribly for you.

Having said that, unfortunately, when you have to tell someone "sorry, you aren't the one for me" it's about as pleasent as shoving broken shards of glass up your own arse and then bathing in lemon juice fun.

The last girl I broke up with showed very little real interest in me... until I chose to move on. Then she went from an ice queen to calling my cell phone (literally) 212 times in two days.

I'm quite certain that she believes I walked away with no real explaination, because I know for a fact she didn't like the obvious explaination I gave: "Sorry, but I'm just not happy with you."

Maybe look on the bright side - he didn't string you along for six months with empty promises and hollow displays of affection. You're one more mistake closer to finding the right man for you.

Stephan

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http://www.vv3b.com/

"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

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RE: Mental Health, Self Esteem and the Dom's Responsibi... - 11/14/2004 8:58:01 AM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

When reading the Finances thread, I ran across an answer that contained the following statement:
"Master takes on the responsibility and should be prepared for the responsibility for the mental health and self esteem of his slave."


Everyone is responsible for their own mental health and self-esteem no matter whether they are Master, slave, sub, vanilla, etc. It is up to every individual to engage in dynamics that is good for themselves and get away from dynamics that harm them.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Mental Health, Self Esteem and the Dom's Responsibi... - 11/14/2004 9:40:30 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

quote:

When reading the Finances thread, I ran across an answer that contained the following statement:
"Master takes on the responsibility and should be prepared for the responsibility for the mental health and self esteem of his slave."

Everyone is responsible for their own mental health and self-esteem no matter whether they are Master, slave, sub, vanilla, etc. It is up to every individual to engage in dynamics that is good for themselves and get away from dynamics that harm them.


As the source of this quote, just wanted to put it in the context that it was originally written.

A Master is responsible for his slave's mental health and self-esteem in respect that once the relationship is 'formalized' his actions are consistent and as anticipated by the slave. It meant that a Master can't advertise himself as a; "Strict detail oriented Dom" and then not enforce the rules he established. When that occurs a Mater has effected the emotional heath of his slave, her self esteem potentially perceived as, "unworthy of her Master's discipline". The Master is responsibly for those feelings.

As originally expressed. A Master's responsibility is to be a Master - as understood and defined by the relationship. A slave's "last" decision is to enter into that relationship. At that point, a Master can negatively effect his slave's emotions and self esteem if he isn't the Master he claimed he was.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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RE: Mental Health, Self Esteem and the Dom's Responsibi... - 11/14/2004 1:20:04 PM   
LadyAngelika


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I understand what it is that you are expressing Merc. I see it as the relationship you have negotiated with beth. I realise that many people have relationships like yours, with a few variations.

When I say that we all have the responsibility to surround ourselves with people that are good for us, our mental health and our self-esteem, it is indeed as you suggest a big part of who we choose to partner up with.

However, where I disagree with you when you say that a slave's "last" decision is to enter into that relationship. Every moment that beth stays with you, she is making the decision to stay with you.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Mental Health, Self Esteem and the Dom's Responsibi... - 11/14/2004 1:44:58 PM   
Yankeestick


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

However, where I disagree with you when you say that a slave's "last" decision is to enter into that relationship. Every moment that beth stays with you, she is making the decision to stay with you.

- LA


As someone who's now moving from a Dominant/submissive perspective to a Master/slave perspective, here's my take: the slave's last decision is to give over her decision making power to her Master - until she makes a different one.

Kind of similar to Lady Angelika - but the emphasis is on a suspension of decision making power as an unequivocal commitment to the ongoing covenant of full surrender. - rather than a moment-by-moment re-covenanting.

< Message edited by Yankeestick -- 11/14/2004 3:36:15 PM >

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RE: Mental Health, Self Esteem and the Dom's Responsibi... - 11/14/2004 3:29:17 PM   
LadyAngelika


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Yeah... what Yankeestick said!

Actually I agree with your perpective much more then my original one.

- LA



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