RE: Wife As Sex Slave Contract

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RE: Wife As Sex Slave Contract - 8/10/2006 9:15:07 AM

somethndif

Posts: 136
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

I did not say that no one can ever be charged if there is any claim of consent, I said that the courts are treating BDSM differently from contact sports, where it is a generally recognized principle that freely given and competent consent is held to provide protection from prosecution for battery.

You claim that I am wrong about that specific point, and then you refer to cases where the courts say that BDSM is different from contact sports, where people are allowed to consent to being beaten bloody and unconscious.

And it is circular logic used by some courts that BDSM is 'different' from other consensual contact activities because it is BDSM.

Which is of course, part of what I had already said.

Actually, what you said is this: "So the statement that 'BDSM is illegal' is at best a stretch, at worst, just plain wrong."

And your statement is just plain wrong. Read the Van case, decided less than 2 years ago, which I quoted in my earlier post and the cases which the Van opinion discusses. BDSM is illegal in many, if not all states, if it results in bodily injury, regardless of consent.

But if you want to delude yourself that BDSM activity is not illegal, be my guest. *smiling*

Dan

(in reply to Alumbrado)

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RE: Wife As Sex Slave Contract - 8/11/2006 12:02:51 PM

enigmabrat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrongButKind

To what would you like a link?

A link to the artical that started this whole thread

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Wooden paddle $50.00 on Master card
ratten cane $48.00 on Master card

a Master that can use them all Priceless

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RE: Wife As Sex Slave Contract - 8/11/2006 1:26:42 PM

Lordandmaster

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Joined: 6/22/2004
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I'm glad to see you're standing your ground with this. Ordinarily I'd say you're throwing pearls before swine, but I think it's very important for other people to watch this exchange and learn. I still can't get over the image of some guy about to be sentenced and hauled off for whipping his girlfriend, and exclaiming, "But your Honor, Alumbrado on Collarme.com said consent was a legitimate defense!"

quote:

ORIGINAL: somethndif

Actually, what you said is this: "So the statement that 'BDSM is illegal' is at best a stretch, at worst, just plain wrong."

And your statement is just plain wrong. [snip]

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RE: Wife As Sex Slave Contract - 8/12/2006 7:11:37 PM

earthbound

Posts: 6
Joined: 8/9/2006
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Im late writing this but reading through about goths wearing collars and so forth, im pretty sure that all comes from your medieval goth idea, spikes, um medieval armor kinda thing, collar around the throat with spikes to stop attack there, sorta covers weak points (but more importantly looks cool lol) but I've found quite a few goths to be.... kinky to say the least, hell im almost 100% positive in the black metal band gorgoroth, i have a pic of them live, man that guy has fucken whip marks up his arms like you wouldnt believe, well unless he fell on some sort of grating... (he's submissive lol either that or was drunk)
I find that there is a link between goth and BDSM, not all of em, but there is this..... ARRR can't explain it, someone help me lol

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RE: Wife As Sex Slave Contract - 8/12/2006 7:17:59 PM

earthbound

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Joined: 8/9/2006
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Somethnhdf
I'd like to ask a question, what about Self bondage etc? Would that count as bodily harm then? would they put you in a hospital while they figured out what was "wrong" with you because you like tight, restrictive bondage but have no one else around to help? Might sound like im having a laugh about it, but if they're gonna say bdsm is illegal and morally wrong and bla bla (whatever excuse various governments come up with to wreck our fun) then wouldn't self bondage related practices be counted as self harm?
I wonder..

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RE: Wife As Sex Slave Contract - 9/1/2006 1:06:34 PM

Amaros

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Suicide is illegal in most states Earthbound, the basic criteria for the legal system getting involved in any sort of human activity is if one demonstrates that one is "a danger to themselves or others", and may result in a psych evaluation - consensual acts of Sadism/Masochism are in a grey area that would be very difficult to cover with specific laws. As it stands, caselaw is currently tilted a little more towards consent, but in cases of extreme trauma, it wouldn't protect you - there are some things that consent wouldn't cover - see assisted suicide.

The underlying assumption here. I believe, is that a certain point the consentee's mental stability in terms of being both psychologically sound enough to consent, and free from coercion is called into question, and it's a reasonable factor to consider, it curtails outright abuse, and any rational Dom should be master of him/herself to know when to say enough is enough.

I do agree with Alumbro that the consenual defense is a sound one under ordinary circumstances, I know one person who suffered severe trauma from picking the wrong BDSM partner, but I know about a dozen guys who've been permenently crippled playing High School football - the difference there is largely one of perception.

In practical terms, of course, depending on where you are, and what kind of judge you got, effectively employing such a defense might be a matter of time and money.

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Post #: 46

RE: Wife As Sex Slave Contract - 9/1/2006 2:13:47 PM

Amaros

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Self bondage is high on the list of the most dangerous BDSM practices, anything involving asphyxia is at the top of the list, alone or with somebody.

quote:

Self-bondage carries a higher risk, particularly because it violates the first principle of bondage safety: to never leave a bound person alone. Without someone to release them in the event of an emergency or medical crisis, self-bondage can be lethal to its practitioners. It has been estimated in the medical literature there are around 500-1000 deaths every year in the United States due to autoerotic asphyxia (self-strangulation) alone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bondage_(BDSM)

quote:

Breath Control -- A form of play where the dominant controls the breathing of the submissive. This may be through air-tight masks, strangulation, drowning or other techniques. The safety of this is the subject of major debate within the BDSM community with many holding that it is impossible to do with reliable safety. The majority of BDSM related deaths (solo or partner play) have come from breath control play.

http://www.butch-femme.net/butchfemmenetwork_011.htm

< Message edited by Amaros -- 9/1/2006 2:16:03 PM >

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RE: Wife As Sex Slave Contract - 9/1/2006 3:07:22 PM

Matt1958

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Joined: 7/2/2006
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As to contact sports and consent: There is a great book call "Martial Arts and American Law". The book delves into violence in sports.
Yes, you can be prosecuted for doing intentional violence that, in doing so, breaks the rules of the game. Take soccer, a personal favorite of mine. I am a keeper. I expect to get kicked every now and then and I consent to that. I do not consent to getting savagely kicked in the face after a play was finished. That type of action, in addition to getting a red card, can get the person prosecuted for assault as that went beyond the boundries of the rules of the game, and there was intent to cause injury. It would not be an accident. Nor would it be part of the normal physical activity of the game.
Boxing, a closer example to BDSM. I can beat the crap out of my oppoent and leave him brain damaged. If I grab his head and slam it into my knee, causing the brain damage, I'm going to jail, as well as probably getting sued out of existance by the other guy's relatives.
In many states, the law defines the level of acceptable violence that may be inflicted upon another. Many states also have the precedent that consent to a crime does not override the crime itself. This is an outgrowth of domestic violence. How many of you live in states where the policy is, no matter what both partners say, if the police are called, somebody goes to jail? This is not uncommon in the US. In most of those, prosecution does not hinge on consent, but whether there is a good chance that the prosecution can get a conviction .
And all of this does not even touch on the social impact that a trial would have on the accused. Just the trial involving BDSM, even with a slamdunk acquittal, could ruin most people.
BDSM is about consent. But we do tread a legal line in regards to criminal activity vs constitutional right to privacy.

Matt

(in reply to Amaros)

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Post #: 48

RE: Wife As Sex Slave Contract - 9/1/2006 9:46:06 PM

SirDiscipliner69

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Joined: 2/1/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: iliv2servher

St. Paul Pioneer Press
May 1, 2006
Courtesy of News of the Weird

Less than three months after one wife-as-sex-slave contract surfaced (in Iowa, for which husband Travis Frey in June was sentenced to 10 years in prison), Hudson, Wis., husband Kevin Anderson was accused of making his own sex-slave contract with his estranged wife, Kimberly O'Brien, which O'Brien filed as evidence in March in her pending divorce. The contract required O'Brien to call Anderson "Master Jon," to achieve orgasm "ONLY" (emphasis in the original) by permission, and to allow her orgasms to be "controlled for proper training (and) teaching ... good habits (and) providing motivation (and) physical or sexual energy."

Someone sent the story to Me and with it were the photocopies of the actual documents. I kept them filed away as I found them somewhat amusing...but surely not the outcome.

If any anyone wants copies contact Me and I will email them to you

There are about 10 documents in gif file format

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RE: Wife As Sex Slave Contract - 9/2/2006 6:00:04 AM

ScooterTrash

Posts: 1407
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Again, the consent thing is badly misunderstood...the laws in Australia, England, Canada, the US, and other places DO allow people to consent to being hit...(can anyone provide a successful prosecution of an actor, or boxer who was arrested, and told that the consent of his partner didn't matter?).

Apples and oranges...laws are specific in all of these areas regarding sadomasochistic activities. Canada appears to have most passive laws of all you cited, England the most strict. I'd post links to numerous cases, but you're a big boy, you can search on your own.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

So everyone, repeat after me: "Consent is a defense to battery"

Yes..it could be used as a defense..most likely unsuccessfully. It's not actually the Judges that are twisting the laws that are the problem, it is those who are enforcing the current laws as they are written, with no leniency due to the circumstances involved. Changing the laws would be the obvious proactive move, as reacting to laws already on the books with a "she/he said it was OK" defense would likely prove fruitless. In these cases it appears that the "state" takes the stance that although consent was given, it is the "state's" obligation to protect its citizens, even if it is from themselves.

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