RE: Guns

RE: Guns (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Guns

There is too much regulation already.

10% (28)

There should be far more stringent background checks.

15% (39)

Reinstate the ban on assault guns.

11% (29)

Make conceal and carry the law in all 50 states.

10% (28)

Make gun classes mandatory.

16% (42)

The only guns availible to the public should be hunting rifles.

4% (12)

The 2nd amendment includes individuals owning firearms.

21% (54)

The 2nd amendment does not include individuals, it's been distorted.

3% (8)

I wish my country had gun laws similar to the US

0% (1)

I don't want my country to have gun laws like the US

6% (16)

Total Votes : 257

(last vote on : 2/2/2013 9:53:19 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

Message

tazzygirl -> RE: Guns (1/23/2013 9:28:39 PM)
quote: He still could have been unknowingly transporting a firearm in a motor vehicle that was loaded. Yes, he could have. However, he took his gun to the gun show, so he knew he had the gun in any vehicle and was transporting it "knowingly".

jlf1961 -> RE: Guns (1/23/2013 9:35:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: He still could have been unknowingly transporting a firearm in a motor vehicle that was loaded. Yes, he could have. However, he took his gun to the gun show, so he knew he had the gun in any vehicle and was transporting it "knowingly". Uh, after firing a weapon, is it not common practice to unload the weapon and clean it. I mean powder residue is slightly corrosive, isnt it? If he failed to unload the weapon after the last time he fired it, he was surely not the most careful gun owner around, I would even go so far as to say irresponsible. FYI, If I examined a gun and found it with powder residue in the barrel, I would not buy it.

BamaD -> RE: Guns (1/23/2013 11:31:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: He still could have been unknowingly transporting a firearm in a motor vehicle that was loaded. Yes, he could have. However, he took his gun to the gun show, so he knew he had the gun in any vehicle and was transporting it "knowingly". He sounds like someone who should not have a gun, sharp instuments, or matches.

tazzygirl -> RE: Guns (1/23/2013 11:35:23 PM)
I agree... .but you cant weed them out of the responsible one's.. so what do we do? A man is now laying in the hospital, shot in the groin, because of one man's idiotic actions.

LadyPact -> RE: Guns (1/24/2013 12:00:30 AM)
I'm late to the discussion, but since I just got called pro gun on another thread....... Thank you for making multiple selections available. The three that I ticked off were more stringent background checks, mandatory classes, and yes, the 2nd Amendment does include individuals owning firearms. While most of what I think gives the impression that I am pro gun is because I am very pro hunting, I didn't select that only hunting rifles should be owned by the public. I just don't feel that it's My place to tell people that they can't own their handgun for personal protection, target shooting at the range, or anything else. Also, it's a stretch, but some people really do collect antique pieces that really are still "guns" but couldn't be fired unless you were willing to load the gunpowder. It was interesting to see how the numbers turned out. Thanks for the poll.

Focus50 -> RE: Guns (1/24/2013 1:25:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri I have no problem with a requirement for owners to secure their firearms. The problem I have is with that one word, "reasonably." What is reasonable? Gun safe? Gun cabinet? I just gave you an example of "reasonable". IE, and I quote, "guns must be kept in a lockable (now spelt correctly) steel cabinet (not necessarily a safe) where the door has a minumum 3 point locking latch. The cabinet must be permanently attached to the building, ie screwed to the wall/floor etc. In the case of bolt action rifles (pretty much all average John Citizen can legally own now), the bolt must be detached and secured in a separate room." <end quote> Even though the above is now a legal requirement, I personally label it "reasonable" because that's how I stored my guns before the Port Arthur massacre forced legislative reform. The only change I had to make was storing the assorted bolts separately. I'll bet dollars to dirt half the privately owned guns (legal or otherwise) in the US are "stored" in drawers, bedside cabinets, on shelves, under pillows or beds or just standing in a convenient corner or closet. And then there's the car's glovebox.... Where's yours kept? quote: Are you sure no one is going to be required to have a bank vault equivalent? What do you mean, "am I sure"? I'm sure it's not a requirement in Australia and the US's gun "control" laws are non-existant in comparison. Focus.

Focus50 -> RE: Guns (1/24/2013 1:37:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri I'd love to see a stat (might have to look into that tonight) that shows what percentage of gun violence is gang-related and/or drug-related. What obscure point are you trying to prove by that? You think the Newtown(?) massacre was drug or gang related? How about that American gun culture is the great enabler of drug & gang violence there, to start with? That and the 2nd amendment...! Focus.

LadyPact -> RE: Guns (1/24/2013 1:53:34 AM)
Am I getting this right, Focus? You are a gun owner. Do you hunt? If so, what is the difference to you between Americans who hunt and Australians who hunt?

Level -> RE: Guns (1/24/2013 3:00:57 AM)
FR The one thing that has surprised me about the poll is the number of people that believe in making classes mandatory.

Focus50 -> RE: Guns (1/24/2013 3:21:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Am I getting this right, Focus? You are a gun owner. Do you hunt? If so, what is the difference to you between Americans who hunt and Australians who hunt? Yep, gun owner here (3 rifles). Well, 2 and an air rifle but all 3 are classed as firearms under our gun control laws. Yep, still shakin' my head on that one, near 20 yrs after Port Arthur.... I'm what I'd refer to as a "feral hunter" (the prey, not me... lol). If it's not native to Oz and crosses my sights, I'm squeezing one off.... Only small stuff but - cats (favourite), rabbits and (if I'm lucky), foxes and wild dogs. And (air rifle) flying rats - Indian Mynah birds.... That's my bit for the environment. Yousta enjoy going away with a close mate who sought out bigger stuff - goats, dogs, pigs, even the occasional water buffalo - all feral. Biggest differences to the US...? Probably what there is to hunt (though I'm sure the US has the same problem with feral pigs). What to avoid while hunting - no grizzlies or big cats here but man o man we've got quite an array of bad tempered snakes and spiders about. And crocs up north anywhere near water. Less likelihood of being shot by other hunters - much smaller population in similar area country = massive tracts of open wilderness here and (relatively speaking) buggar-all others sharing it on any given day. And that nobody "hunts" with full auto military style weapons here. Or even semi-auto anything now, since the ban. Though I think licensed professional hunters can still acquire semi-autos. I sure wouldn't wanna be chasing after wild boars through the thick under-scrub with a bolt-action, no matter how many dogs I had leading the charge.... lol Focus.

Focus50 -> RE: Guns (1/24/2013 3:26:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level FR The one thing that has surprised me about the poll is the number of people that believe in making classes mandatory. Mostly those who are against any form of actual gun control? Cos guns don't attend classes, people attend classes - and such like...? Or don't these polls actually show who voted for what? Focus.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Guns (1/24/2013 4:58:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri I have no problem with a requirement for owners to secure their firearms. The problem I have is with that one word, "reasonably." What is reasonable? Gun safe? Gun cabinet? I just gave you an example of "reasonable". IE, and I quote, "guns must be kept in a lockable (now spelt correctly) steel cabinet (not necessarily a safe) where the door has a minumum 3 point locking latch. The cabinet must be permanently attached to the building, ie screwed to the wall/floor etc. In the case of bolt action rifles (pretty much all average John Citizen can legally own now), the bolt must be detached and secured in a separate room." <end quote> Even though the above is now a legal requirement, I personally label it "reasonable" because that's how I stored my guns before the Port Arthur massacre forced legislative reform. The only change I had to make was storing the assorted bolts separately. I'll bet dollars to dirt half the privately owned guns (legal or otherwise) in the US are "stored" in drawers, bedside cabinets, on shelves, under pillows or beds or just standing in a convenient corner or closet. And then there's the car's glovebox.... Where's yours kept? You gave me the Australian rules, which I had no trouble understanding. However, what Australia defines as reasonable may not be the same in America. A former afternoon drive-time radio host would say - paraphrasing - "it's not about being reasonable or not; it's about who gets to decide." Would an irresponsible gun nut define reasonable the same way an anti-gun nut would? All the guns that are either mine or my kids' are either partially staged where they will be used - unloaded, or stored back in the packaging it came in. To be clear, the only "guns" I own fire staples, brad nails, nails, or glue, and the "guns" that are my kids' are battery operated "laser tag" guns. quote: quote: Are you sure no one is going to be required to have a bank vault equivalent? What do you mean, "am I sure"? I'm sure it's not a requirement in Australia and the US's gun "control" laws are non-existant in comparison. Focus. Great. Good for you. I can give you real-world examples of how shit changes in America. In Ohio, the drunk driving limit was set to 0.1% blood acohol level. Over that, if you get caught, you're nailed. It has since been redefined as 0.08% blood alcohol level. In Ohio, not wearing a seat belt in the front seat(s) of a vehicle was a second-degree offense, meaning you could not be pulled over for not wearing it, but if you were pulled over for something else and weren't wearing your seat belt, you were ticketed for that, also. It didn't take long, but now, it's a primary offense, so a cop can actually pull you over for not wearing a seat belt, regardless of your driving. Thus what is determined to be "reasonable" in America when the bill passes, may be exactly the same as it is in Australia. For now, anyway. But, is there a guarantee that some anti-gun group won't get enough power to require a bank-vault equivalent in the future? If you are sure that would never happen, then, yes, you are sure. If you can reasonably see that happening, then you aren't sure.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Guns (1/24/2013 5:07:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri I'd love to see a stat (might have to look into that tonight) that shows what percentage of gun violence is gang-related and/or drug-related. What obscure point are you trying to prove by that? You think the Newtown(?) massacre was drug or gang related? How about that American gun culture is the great enabler of drug & gang violence there, to start with? That and the 2nd amendment...! Focus. Does it matter if Newtown was drug or gang related, when I'm talking about stats? Attempting to create a significant favorable effect on gun crimes might require it be tailored to the majority of gun crimes, no? All the laws that do not target, or won't be followed by, the actual criminals will likely have little to no effect at all. Decriminalizing some drugs could very well decrease the amount of gun crimes committed in the US.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Guns (1/24/2013 5:40:01 AM)
It is not surprising to me at all. It seems to be one of the areas of common ground among pro-gun and anti-gun folks. I like to look at these things with problem solving skills, which means you focus on the common ground areas. Now what is surprising to me, is that with it being a common ground area why is there not mandatory classes in some states? quote: ORIGINAL: Level FR The one thing that has surprised me about the poll is the number of people that believe in making classes mandatory.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Guns (1/24/2013 6:36:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level FR The one thing that has surprised me about the poll is the number of people that believe in making classes mandatory. Every CCW person I have ever had the good fortune of speaking to at length, has spoken of his/her efforts to safely secure his/her firearm and that they wished that every one would have to go through some sort of training into how a gun is to be safely used and kept. When CCW comes up in the database when an officer is pulling you over and runs your license plate, you bet your ass he's more careful about approaching, regardless of the nature of the stop or the content of your record (even if it's empty). They tend to call ahead and find out local rules to make sure they are going to be in compliance when venturing out of their jurisdiction. Proper understanding of a gun, how it is maintained, and how to keep it, are great ways to improve gun safety.

LadyPact -> RE: Guns (1/24/2013 8:18:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 Yep, gun owner here (3 rifles). Well, 2 and an air rifle but all 3 are classed as firearms under our gun control laws. Yep, still shakin' my head on that one, near 20 yrs after Port Arthur.... I'm what I'd refer to as a "feral hunter" (the prey, not me... lol). If it's not native to Oz and crosses my sights, I'm squeezing one off.... Only small stuff but - cats (favourite), rabbits and (if I'm lucky), foxes and wild dogs. And (air rifle) flying rats - Indian Mynah birds.... That's my bit for the environment. Yousta enjoy going away with a close mate who sought out bigger stuff - goats, dogs, pigs, even the occasional water buffalo - all feral. Biggest differences to the US...? Probably what there is to hunt (though I'm sure the US has the same problem with feral pigs). What to avoid while hunting - no grizzlies or big cats here but man o man we've got quite an array of bad tempered snakes and spiders about. And crocs up north anywhere near water. Less likelihood of being shot by other hunters - much smaller population in similar area country = massive tracts of open wilderness here and (relatively speaking) buggar-all others sharing it on any given day. And that nobody "hunts" with full auto military style weapons here. Or even semi-auto anything now, since the ban. Though I think licensed professional hunters can still acquire semi-autos. I sure wouldn't wanna be chasing after wild boars through the thick under-scrub with a bolt-action, no matter how many dogs I had leading the charge.... lol Focus. Thanks for that. It gave Me a more enlightened view about hunting between the two.

BamaD -> RE: Guns (1/24/2013 8:37:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level FR The one thing that has surprised me about the poll is the number of people that believe in making classes mandatory. I think gun safety courses should be taught in high school like drivers ed

BamaD -> RE: Guns (1/24/2013 8:42:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 Yep, gun owner here (3 rifles). Well, 2 and an air rifle but all 3 are classed as firearms under our gun control laws. Yep, still shakin' my head on that one, near 20 yrs after Port Arthur.... I'm what I'd refer to as a "feral hunter" (the prey, not me... lol). If it's not native to Oz and crosses my sights, I'm squeezing one off.... Only small stuff but - cats (favourite), rabbits and (if I'm lucky), foxes and wild dogs. And (air rifle) flying rats - Indian Mynah birds.... That's my bit for the environment. Yousta enjoy going away with a close mate who sought out bigger stuff - goats, dogs, pigs, even the occasional water buffalo - all feral. Biggest differences to the US...? Probably what there is to hunt (though I'm sure the US has the same problem with feral pigs). What to avoid while hunting - no grizzlies or big cats here but man o man we've got quite an array of bad tempered snakes and spiders about. And crocs up north anywhere near water. Less likelihood of being shot by other hunters - much smaller population in similar area country = massive tracts of open wilderness here and (relatively speaking) buggar-all others sharing it on any given day. And that nobody "hunts" with full auto military style weapons here. Or even semi-auto anything now, since the ban. Though I think licensed professional hunters can still acquire semi-autos. I sure wouldn't wanna be chasing after wild boars through the thick under-scrub with a bolt-action, no matter how many dogs I had leading the charge.... lol Focus. Thanks for that. It gave Me a more enlightened view about hunting between the two. Nobody here hunts with full auto either. Very few people can pass the background check to get one and no state allows it.

RacerJim -> RE: Guns (1/24/2013 9:28:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I don't care if you need them or not. Have all you want. But just be responsible for what you own. 500,000 stolen guns a year tells me not everyone is. Two years ago my home was robbed. They stole a gun. The police arrived (45 minutes after I called) to collect their information for the report. When I listed the items that were stolen and got to the gun he winced and started calmly lecturing me about not having it locked up. I walked over to the door and pointed to the still engaged deadbolt and the splintered door facing and asked him precisely what did that look like to him. I then asked him if we were finished with our business and pointed again towards the now un-closeable door. The house was locked. How many of those 500K guns do you think were left on the sidewalk for anyone to take? All of my medicine cabinets had been opened. Should we have drug safes, tazzy? Some degenerate meth head kicks in my door and it's my fault. Lovely. I'm the victim here but suddenly I'm at fault. You might want to avoid rape discussions. You chose to keep a deadly weapon with significant value to criminals in your unsecured, deadbolts are laughable security, home so yes, you are responsible for not having acquired and used a gun safe. If/when your locked car is stolen and the car thief kills someone with it I'm sure you'll turn yourself in to the police and admit being responsible for that someone being killed. Sure you will.

RacerJim -> RE: Guns (1/24/2013 9:38:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Level FR The one thing that has surprised me about the poll is the number of people that believe in making classes mandatory. I think gun safety courses should be taught in high school like drivers ed Where I live they quit teaching driver's ed in high school years ago.

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