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RE: suggested addition to FAQ - 1/23/2013 12:23:49 PM   
crazyml


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Could you post a couple of links to examples of the kind of thing you're talking about please?



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RE: suggested addition to FAQ - 1/23/2013 7:32:51 PM   
wannapleez


Posts: 358
Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
Could you post a couple of links to examples of the kind of thing you're talking about please?


* If I oblige, then we get caught up in individuals, rather than behaviors. If I link to post X and don't identify the asshat in question, then somebody comes back and asks who I'm talking about specifically. If I do identify him/her, then s/he and his/her friends get their panties in a wad and drag their bad behavior over here.

* If I don't oblige, the theRose4U and her fans like Extravagasm will scream in ecstasy that I am full of shit.

Damned if I do; damned if I don't.

So, seeing as how not obliging is easier and gets fewer people screaming (and none whose opinion is worth giving a damn about), I'll go with that option.

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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: suggested addition to FAQ - 1/23/2013 7:57:46 PM   
wannapleez


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
Could you post a couple of links to examples of the kind of thing you're talking about please?


I just ran across a thread that I can oblige with -- sorta. This isn't exactly what I was talking about, but it skirts along some of the issues.

A guy comes in and asks a question. And yes, he asked it quite badly. And apparently his profile pic (when he started the thread) was offensive. But even the people from this thread that I'd consider to be nice, level-headed people:

* Omnisciently told him his true motivation
* Refused to accept or even believe any of his 437 apologies
* Kicked him around in general
* One person even tattled on him -- like a damn 8-year-old -- rather than simply informing him of his offense.

No one was an out-and-out asshole, but geez, the reaction outweighed the offense. Not to mention the fact that omniscience is bullshit.

< Message edited by wannapleez -- 1/23/2013 7:58:29 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: suggested addition to FAQ - 1/23/2013 8:16:18 PM   
NiceButMeanGirl


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I don't think I was all that bad to the OP in that thread. The fact that he started a whole thread to talk about his "small weiner" was really unimpressive, dickcentric and well, that sort of thing has been very overdone already.

NBMG

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: suggested addition to FAQ - 1/23/2013 8:17:07 PM   
Kaliko


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NiceButMeanGirl

I don't think I was all that bad to the OP in that thread. The fact that he started a whole thread to talk about his "small weiner" was really unimpressive, dickcentric and well, that sort of thing has been very overdone already.

NBMG



I started a thread about my breasts once. It went over rather well.

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: suggested addition to FAQ - 1/23/2013 9:11:34 PM   
lovethyself


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FR

I'm fairly new to cm, and I have to say that I've rarely gotten any negative comments to posts that I've made, or threads that I've started. I've seen some of what you are describing, but most of the time when I've noticed it, the newbie poster either had a really badly written OP, an offensive OP, or didn't want to accept or understand the advice that was given, and got progressively more assholish themselves, turning the discussion into a game of trading insults. There are some posters that admittedly regularly try to be insulting and grating (at least from my pov). But, the general trend that I've noticed is that what someone gets from a thread is directly proportional to what they put into it. If your question is badly written, without thought as to how it will read to someone else, or with grammar and spelling so bad that it's basically unintelligible, or something that you could google in less time, then you will get responses that are equally uninformative. If, however, you put some effort into your question, maybe with some background to explain how you came to be wondering such, or where you're coming from in experience, and you make sure to read it over before clicking OK, fixing grammar spelling and punctuation, then you will get intelligent, helpful answers back.

This is by no means completely true in either case. But it is the prevelent response that I've noticed. There will be asshats even with the good questions, just as there are good answers sometimes for the badly worded questions. There are some really good, helpful people here that go out of their way to respond with wonderfully informative perspectives when the question is something that they have experience with. LadyPact and AthenaSurrenders are two that I've noticed. But I can imagine that it takes time and effort to write such responses, and as such they would have to pick and chose when to do that. There is no way anyone could respond to every thread started with that kind of in-depth answer. I do appreciate reading those posts when they happen, and hope that one day, when I have more experience behind me, and I've grown as a person and understand myself and this life better, that I can be one of those people that choses to help others learn and grow.

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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: suggested addition to FAQ - 1/23/2013 9:18:51 PM   
wannapleez


Posts: 358
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko
I started a thread about my breasts once. It went over rather well.


Minus 50 points for not linking to the thread. ;-)

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: suggested addition to FAQ - 1/23/2013 9:19:13 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
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That's the example you're going with, OP? I really think you just damaged your own argument. If anything, you just completely confirmed what I had said on post #53 of this thread.

Basically, with that example, you just said people on the forum aren't nice enough to people breaking ToS and wanting to turn the forum into a discussion about his dick. Truthfully, I'd have been a lot worse in real life had somebody waved their dick in My face and started shoving his kink (sph) down My throat without so much as a hello.


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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: suggested addition to FAQ - 1/23/2013 9:23:16 PM   
wannapleez


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NiceButMeanGirl

I don't think I was all that bad to the OP in that thread. The fact that he started a whole thread to talk about his "small weiner" was really unimpressive, dickcentric and well, that sort of thing has been very overdone already.

NBMG


Well, I'm not going back to look at individual responses. But I have to call foul on one thing you said here.
quote:


that sort of thing has been very overdone already

That's no reason to go off on a newbie. By very definition, he wouldn't know that it had been very overdone.

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: suggested addition to FAQ - 1/23/2013 10:00:23 PM   
NiceButMeanGirl


Posts: 2756
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From: Bellingham, WA U.S.A.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wannapleez
But I have to call foul on one thing you said here.
quote:


that sort of thing has been very overdone already

That's no reason to go off on a newbie. By very definition, he wouldn't know that it had been very overdone.

You can call foul all you want, but it still doesn't negate the fact that there's a search function and he should have used it instead of being lazy. He would have known it was already way overdone if he'd used the Search link that anyone can find at the right top of the forum pages, if he bothered to look. Believe me, it's really not that difficult to find.

NBMG

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: suggested addition to FAQ - 1/23/2013 11:03:19 PM   
theRose4U


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wannapleez

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
Could you post a couple of links to examples of the kind of thing you're talking about please?


* If I oblige, then we get caught up in individuals, rather than behaviors. If I link to post X and don't identify the asshat in question, then somebody comes back and asks who I'm talking about specifically. If I do identify him/her, then s/he and his/her friends get their panties in a wad and drag their bad behavior over here.

* If I don't oblige, the theRose4U and her fans like Extravagasm will scream in ecstasy that I am full of shit.

Damned if I do; damned if I don't.

So, seeing as how not obliging is easier and gets fewer people screaming (and none whose opinion is worth giving a damn about), I'll go with that option.

Excuse the fuck out of you?? My what will who??? I have a life dude & you arenit it!!! If others have similarly pointed out your behavior as an asshat...that's all you!! I had a 12 hour day where you weren't even a thought in the bathroom so please please stop giving me credit where I have played no hand.

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: suggested addition to FAQ - 1/24/2013 2:38:11 AM   
crazyml


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Hey there wannapleez,

I promise that I wasn't asking for examples out of snark. I'm genuinely interested.

I tend to think that there's far less hostility to newcomers than people sometimes suggest. That isn't to say that some newcomers don't get a hard time (quite a few get a good kicking) or that we shouldn't try to be more welcoming, but it bothers me a little that it gets overstated.

While I was watching one of the "the boards are shit" threads I made a point of keeping an eye on newcomers, and how they get on and, you know - by and large I think this board is pretty welcoming.

That said, sure, I think an addition to the FAQ along the lines of "Tips on starting out..." would be handy.

If I were writing such a thing it would be something like this...

Welcome to the Forums!

You're joining a pretty eclectic mix of people with a huge range of kinks, preferences, outlooks, and communication styles. But that range of different points of view is what makes this place so fucking awesome.

So, you're new. You're walking into the bar for the first time... you'll see a bunch of regulars, they'll look you up and down, they might not be super chatty at first - but hey, that's natural isn't it?

If you weigh into a discussion, and for pete's sake - we hope you do! - then expect your point of view to be challenged, prodded, poked.

Some people will do this in a gentle, almost pleasant way, and others may come across as abrupt, or even snarky.

If you get a response that seems abrupt or snarky to you - Don't assume that the person making it is an asshat... read what they've said.

Bear in mind that while you may have a ton of experience, the chances are that there'll be someone else who has every bit as much, if not more, than you. So don't assume that you're always going to be the expert. Isn't that awesome? There are likely to be people that have more (or different) experience than you... what an fucking awesome way to learn and grow!

Now, like every bar, there are a few nutjobs. You know, the drooling drunkard in the corner who wants to pick a fight with every newcomer. Conveniently, there's an "ignore" function for these idiots. Over time every fucking tactic under the sun has been tried in order to deal with these buffoons - in general the best thing to do is just ignore them.

Just as it's good advice never to get into a debate with a drunk, these people are best left to splooge their madwaggery without any additional encouragement.

And, from time to time you're going to fuck up. I can say this with absolute certainty, because everyone fucks up. So if someone gets the wrong end of the stick, then do the big thing and say "Sorry, my bad... I didn't explain myself properly". If they're still snippy then either roll with it, or use that lovely ignore button.

Back to the broad mix of kinks thing.... there are going to be people who love doing stuff to people who love having that stuff done to them that you might think is rather odd. You might think it's wrong, you might even think that stuff is properly fucked up. If that happens, here's some advice for you -

You don't have to understand everyone's kinks, you don't have to like them, you don't have to not feel "squicky", but it is beholden on you to try not to judge others.

Sure... there are some properly clear boundaries..... but be very careful about saying things like "Dominance is..." or "A real Dom would...." because shit like that is a red rag...



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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: suggested addition to FAQ - 1/24/2013 1:14:22 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


That said, sure, I think an addition to the FAQ along the lines of "Tips on starting out..." would be handy.

If I were writing such a thing it would be something like this...

Welcome to the Forums!

snippage


Ahem...we have that. It covers the basics, including the TOS, the forum guidelines, and using the search function. It also includes tips on how to post for best results. (Note the bold section.) If people weren't so fracking lazy, maybe they would read the big capital letters on the sticky post at the top of the forum that say READ THIS FIRST and we wouldn't get threads like this one that's gone on for five pages because ZOMGWTFBBQ Y R U SO MEEN 2 teh n00bie's poor feels!

quote:

Introduction

Welcome to the Ask A Mistress forum FAQ. This FAQ is designed to help you make the most of your experience on CollarMe/CollarChat. Please take a few minutes to read it and explore the links included. If you don’t find the answer to your question in this FAQ, please use the Search feature to look for past threads that might deal with your question. We also encourage you to familiarize yourself with the TOS and Forum Guidelines before you post.

Etiquette

Please remain respectful of others points of view and ask questions that are pertinent. Please refrain from posting inflammatory or accusatory remarks about FemDoms as a group. We are unique and sweeping generalizations will only result in a very negative thread. Remember, no one is here to cater to your fantasies and fetishes. We are here to have intelligent discussions regarding a variety of interests. Please try to word your question in a way that shows you are interested in promoting discussion and not trolling for masturbation material.

Often, your questions can be answered by doing a search of the archives. Please check the date of a thread and try to avoid commenting on anything more than 6 months old. If you would like to start a discussion based on a thread more than 6 months old, create a new post and include a link to the old thread. Posts telling people the “right” or “true” way to do things are unwelcome. If you are very knowledgeable about a certain topic, we welcome you to share your experiences, just keep your mind open to other possibilities.

Below are a few links to sites describing general ‘netiquette’ (internet etiquette). Please review them and apply the techniques to your posts.

The Core Rules of Netiquette
25 Forum Posting Etiquette Tips
What is Forum Etiquette?
Tips for Good Web Forum Etiquette


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RE: suggested addition to FAQ - 1/24/2013 1:25:15 PM   
kalikshama


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Crazyml's copy is persuasive; the guidelines are informative (and not as much fun to read.)

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: suggested addition to FAQ - 1/24/2013 2:47:17 PM   
wannapleez


Posts: 358
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
That's the example you're going with, OP?



NO, that's not the example that I'm going with. Please read my refusal to cite an example in the comment before, and then all the hedging that I do in this statement (emphases mine):

quote:

I just ran across a thread that I can oblige with -- sorta. This isn't exactly what I was talking about, but it skirts along some of the issues.


I thought that made it clear, but apparently not. So let me spell it out more clearly. That thread is a mild example of what I'm talking about -- I specifically chose it because no one really went off the deep end, but it was still somewhat illustrative of my point.

And please stop it with the "ToS violation" stuff. I assume from the context that he did violate ToS, but half the responses don't even bother to point it out or tell him the error of his ways. Either the motivation behind those that didn't bother was something other than the ToS violation or they're so self-righteous that they consider themselves above letting someone know that he's violating them. Either way, talking about it comes off hollow.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
... and wanting to turn the forum into a discussion about his dick.



I think I've already made myself clear on my views of omniscience. Or is it just childish over-generalization based on past history of others?

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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: suggested addition to FAQ - 1/24/2013 2:52:58 PM   
wannapleez


Posts: 358
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crazyml, that's great! I would only make one revision (highlighted below).

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
And, from time to time you're going to fuck up. I can say this with absolute certainty, because everyone fucks up. So if someone gets the wrong end of the stick, then do the big thing and say "Sorry, my bad... I didn't explain myself properly". If they're still snippy -- and chances are pretty damn good that they will be -- then either roll with it, or use that lovely ignore button.


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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: suggested addition to FAQ - 1/24/2013 2:55:29 PM   
wannapleez


Posts: 358
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

Crazyml's copy is persuasive; the guidelines are informative (and not as much fun to read.)


EXACTLY!

Show of hands -- who here actually reads the ToS every time iTunes shoves out an update? :)

ETA: No offense to the mods, but most ToS's are as dry as Carrie Nation's pantry and therefore rarely get read. And I realize that there's a degree to where any ToS is a necessary legal ass-covering, but stuff like crazyml's material is much better.

ETA Again: Put another way. For everyone saying "it's right there in the ToS (or the FAQ, or whatever other reference document)", be honest. Did you read all that stuff before you made your first post back in the day? I imagine many did, but I bet that not everyone did. And if your answer is "no", then you've got no right to carp about others who don't -- sure, point them in the right direction, but you can't complain.

< Message edited by wannapleez -- 1/24/2013 3:11:44 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: suggested addition to FAQ - 1/24/2013 3:27:18 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wannapleez
NO, that's not the example that I'm going with. Please read my refusal to cite an example in the comment before, and then all the hedging that I do in this statement (emphases mine):

quote:

I just ran across a thread that I can oblige with -- sorta. This isn't exactly what I was talking about, but it skirts along some of the issues.


I thought that made it clear, but apparently not. So let me spell it out more clearly. That thread is a mild example of what I'm talking about -- I specifically chose it because no one really went off the deep end, but it was still somewhat illustrative of my point.

And please stop it with the "ToS violation" stuff. I assume from the context that he did violate ToS, but half the responses don't even bother to point it out or tell him the error of his ways. Either the motivation behind those that didn't bother was something other than the ToS violation or they're so self-righteous that they consider themselves above letting someone know that he's violating them. Either way, talking about it comes off hollow.

I think I've already made myself clear on my views of omniscience. Or is it just childish over-generalization based on past history of others?
I'll give you one part. No, I don't feel that it is the responsibility of the people on the forums to inform people of what they actually signed up for when they hit that "I agree" button. Ignorance honestly isn't an excuse when the information is readily available. I'm not going to pat people on the head when they are violating the policies that contribute to the atmosphere that leads some to prefer this site over others.

What you pulled up doesn't anywhere cover your premise that when polite questions are asked, that people jump all over the poster. What your example showed was a clear cut case of not having social grace and people responded to the lack of it. It's got nothing to do with past history. You can see the thread for yourself. While you can't see the genital shot that was originally that person's avatar, you can see that the original post was nothing but a thinly veiled attempt to drag others into his kink. Had that been real life, there's no way you can say that behavior is acceptable.




quote:

ORIGINAL: wannapleez

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

Crazyml's copy is persuasive; the guidelines are informative (and not as much fun to read.)


EXACTLY!

Show of hands -- who here actually reads the ToS every time iTunes shoves out an update? :)

ETA: No offense to the mods, but most ToS's are as dry as Carrie Nation's pantry and therefore rarely get read. And I realize that there's a degree to where any ToS is a necessary legal ass-covering, but stuff like crazyml's material is much better.

ETA Again: Put another way. For everyone saying "it's right there in the ToS (or the FAQ, or whatever other reference document)", be honest. Did you read all that stuff before you made your first post back in the day? I imagine many did, but I bet that not everyone did. And if your answer is "no", then you've got no right to carp about others who don't -- sure, point them in the right direction, but you can't complain.

Yes, read ToS here. Also have on Alt when I was a member there and on Fet as well. I'm well versed in the community group stipulations and dungeon rules when I'm at events. I've written policy in places that I've been on the board, done guidelines where I proposed and managed events, and have made Myself familiar with the same whether I've been somewhere as a presenter or a guest. That's what a responsible member of a community does.



< Message edited by LadyPact -- 1/24/2013 3:28:22 PM >


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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: suggested addition to FAQ - 1/24/2013 3:31:59 PM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wannapleez

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

Crazyml's copy is persuasive; the guidelines are informative (and not as much fun to read.)


EXACTLY!

Show of hands -- who here actually reads the ToS every time iTunes shoves out an update? :)

ETA: No offense to the mods, but most ToS's are as dry as Carrie Nation's pantry and therefore rarely get read. And I realize that there's a degree to where any ToS is a necessary legal ass-covering, but stuff like crazyml's material is much better.

ETA Again: Put another way. For everyone saying "it's right there in the ToS (or the FAQ, or whatever other reference document)", be honest. Did you read all that stuff before you made your first post back in the day? I imagine many did, but I bet that not everyone did. And if your answer is "no", then you've got no right to carp about others who don't -- sure, point them in the right direction, but you can't complain.


I wonder how many people here have gotten into a new hobby or interest (passionately) and went onto a new message board or forum and experienced being a newbie, and if they did indeed first lurk (for how long? a week? three days? a month?) before posting, read all the stickies, use the search function, etc.

Then take into consideration how many people may actually be new to message boards in general. There could be some.

The bottom line is that sometimes people come on here and they are extremely excited (as in, passionate, eye-opened, exhilarated, full of adrenalin and questions, confused, have insomnia from ingesting too much information, and if they are male are also perhaps dealing with feelings of arousal that are confusing or fantasies that make them ambivalent).

So maybe they don't WANT to use the search function, maybe they want to be heard, to talk to another human being, to reach out to some people? I have been involved in a couple "new" communities online related to new hobbies in the last year and I tend to get really compulsive. So I am not the most patient person in the world. And sometimes there is a sense of urgency. Sometimes I search things but I don't feel like the answer is clear or I feel like it might be outdated so I am the one asking what may seem like a simple question and I have a post count of 3 posts total. I AM the newbie on about three message boards I frequent right now, and I ask dumb questions sometimes. People do say, "there's a search function but in my experience," and still answer the question, and say "welcome aboard." Because they are happy to see their group getting larger.

You also have to mix in the fact that we're dealing with men, often, who have been sent mixed messages by porn. They might have come over from the personals side for 2 hours reading a lot of smut, and even the ads on this site have a tone, and if they did not LURK for hours or days, they might fall flat on their face.

And granted, yes, some of them are unsalvageable, and many are just trolling for a reaction anyway. But my greater concern is how it all looks to the people lurking who don't post now anyway as a result.

It also doesn't help that most threads rather quickly dissolve into inside jokes or banter between people who know each other, rather than staying on topic. That's been on the overall decline for years but now seems almost more prevalent than actual real discussion.




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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: suggested addition to FAQ - 1/24/2013 3:33:22 PM   
wannapleez


Posts: 358
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
I promise that I wasn't asking for examples out of snark. I'm genuinely interested.


I initially read it as snarky, but then I went back and read it again before I responded and gave you (correctly, it seems) the benefit of the doubt. Put another way, I tried not to assume the worst. (See what I did there?)

However, the "damned if I don't" half of my argument was directed at those who might interpret your question as "put up or shut up".

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
I tend to think that there's far less hostility to newcomers than people sometimes suggest. That isn't to say that some newcomers don't get a hard time (quite a few get a good kicking) or that we shouldn't try to be more welcoming, but it bothers me a little that it gets overstated.


Well, when someone who is even-keeled (as you obviously are) but bothered by the alleged over-statement can still admit that "quite a few get a good kicking", then I don't think it's really possible to overstate.

Or even if I am over-stating, sometimes you have to yell really loud before the assholes listen. ;-)

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Profile   Post #: 100
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