RE: What about the other victims? (Full Version)

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Kirata -> RE: What about the other victims? (1/26/2013 5:02:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Nice to see the heads in the sand crowd avoiding what the gun debate is actually about......Massacres.

The gun debate is about guns. Duh. I wish the debate was about massacres.

K.








DomKen -> RE: What about the other victims? (1/26/2013 5:17:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Checking police reports to start with.

Unh huh. And did they? Add to that, defensive gun use where the gun isn't fired would not in most cases be verifiable, and those are the best of all possible outcomes. Face it, as the authors remark, when the NCVS comes up with results that are so wildly divergent from more than a dozen other surveys, there's something wrong, and it's unlikely to be "everybody else".

K.


The possibility that they could makes it less likely the respondants will lie. Also the fact that the NVCS does match up with other surveys that are based on actual gun use.

Phone surveys are inherently bad at collecting data on real events that's why they aren't considered useful in real science.




Kirata -> RE: What about the other victims? (1/26/2013 6:28:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

defensive gun use where the gun isn't fired would not in most cases be verifiable, and those are the best of all possible outcomes.

The possibility that they could makes it less likely the respondants will lie.

In the majority of DGUs the weapon isn't fired. How does the possibly arise of something being verified that can't be verified? And what use are numbers that totally ignore the majority of instances?

K.




jlf1961 -> RE: What about the other victims? (1/26/2013 6:31:08 PM)

Okay, I have asked this in other threads and have not got an answer, it seems the anti gun people want to avoid the question altogether.

If you ban all legally purchased firearms, what are you going to do about the hundreds of thousands or millions of illegal guns in the hands of criminals?

I figure if I use a bigger font they might actually see it.




tazzygirl -> RE: What about the other victims? (1/26/2013 6:40:01 PM)

If you make them illegal with a stiff enough penalty for being caught with one, then offer enough on a buy back, you may find you get a big part of those as well. Just a guess.




jlf1961 -> RE: What about the other victims? (1/26/2013 6:42:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

If you make them illegal with a stiff enough penalty for being caught with one, then offer enough on a buy back, you may find you get a big part of those as well. Just a guess.



It has not worked in cities in the US that have such programs, the criminals turn in one or two while they have six or ten more at home. This is by their own words.

So, try again.




tazzygirl -> RE: What about the other victims? (1/26/2013 6:47:33 PM)

Because we havent tried it before.




jlf1961 -> RE: What about the other victims? (1/26/2013 6:52:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Because we havent tried it before.



quote:

Gun buybacks popular but ineffective, experts say

CINCINNATI -- The rifles, pistols and shotguns always look impressive when they're displayed at news conferences celebrating the end of gun buyback campaigns.

Spread across tables or piled high into overflowing stacks, all those weapons reinforce the notion that trading cash for guns works. It gets guns off the street, organizers say, and makes the city safer.

The problem, according to years of research, is that it does neither.

Cincinnati will join a growing list of cities this week that have embraced gun buyback programs in the wake of the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre in Connecticut. The first of Cincinnati's three planned gun buybacks for 2013 is Tuesday.

Researchers who have evaluated gun control strategies say buybacks – despite their popularity – are among the least effective ways to reduce gun violence. They say targeted police patrols, intervention efforts with known criminals and, to a lesser extent, tougher gun laws all work better than buybacks.

The biggest weakness of buybacks, which offer cash or gift cards for guns, is that the firearms they usually collect are insignificant when measured against the arsenal now in the hands of American citizens.

source




tazzygirl -> RE: What about the other victims? (1/26/2013 7:05:12 PM)

You didnt read what I said.




Kirata -> RE: What about the other victims? (1/26/2013 7:11:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

If you make them illegal with a stiff enough penalty for being caught with one, then offer enough on a buy back, you may find you get a big part of those as well. Just a guess.

The buyback offered would have to be greater than the cost of the gun so criminals could profit from it. [:D]

K.




jlf1961 -> RE: What about the other victims? (1/26/2013 7:14:40 PM)

[image]https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/321046_441662272571695_830345097_n.jpg[/image]




tazzygirl -> RE: What about the other victims? (1/26/2013 7:17:49 PM)

Again, no one read what I posted.

Shame.




tazzygirl -> RE: What about the other victims? (1/26/2013 7:19:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

[image]https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/321046_441662272571695_830345097_n.jpg[/image]


Gee, suddenly Obama is in charge of how the Secret Service runs the protection detail of his family?




jlf1961 -> RE: What about the other victims? (1/26/2013 7:19:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Because we havent tried it before.



What part of this statement are we failing to understand?

I mean the buy back programs have been tried, and all the gang bangers do is turn in enough guns for quick cash for drugs or girls or both.




tazzygirl -> RE: What about the other victims? (1/26/2013 7:21:00 PM)

Oh ffs...

quote:

If you make them illegal with a stiff enough penalty for being caught with one, then offer enough on a buy back, you may find you get a big part of those as well. Just a guess.


Now, where and when did we try that before?




jlf1961 -> RE: What about the other victims? (1/26/2013 7:24:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Oh ffs...

quote:

If you make them illegal with a stiff enough penalty for being caught with one, then offer enough on a buy back, you may find you get a big part of those as well. Just a guess.


Now, where and when did we try that before?



Actually LA County tried the big price buy back, and again the criminal element turned in one or two of their guns for quick cash.




TAFKAA -> RE: What about the other victims? (1/26/2013 7:26:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Feel free to provide a link to any reputable study that tries to equate each and every defensive gun use with a homicide. I suspect you'll produce that right after you come up with the proof that they include military combat in such research.


Well for the first, that's the nonsensical idiocy being claimed in the OP - that each claim of defensive gun use implies an averted homicide - and secondly, I looked at the row marked "Excludes miltary, police use" and all the "NO"'s against it. Which, for the slow class, implies they included military and police use of firearms. Do I really need to explain this shit? Are people here really, this fucking slow?




jlf1961 -> RE: What about the other victims? (1/26/2013 7:28:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

[image]https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/321046_441662272571695_830345097_n.jpg[/image]


Gee, suddenly Obama is in charge of how the Secret Service runs the protection detail of his family?




The point as I see it is not the secret service detail, but the fact that President Obama will not even consider armed guards in schools.




TAFKAA -> RE: What about the other victims? (1/26/2013 7:28:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

[image]https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/321046_441662272571695_830345097_n.jpg[/image]
What the fuck? The President's daughters are a major target with risks far higher than your kids. They're being protected because they're a deliberate target, not because the President's afraid of random, middle class citizens showing up at the school and blowing them away.

Honestly, the more you people do this, the more apparent it becomes how desperate you are to hang onto your weapons and the more you cling onto the most fragile of pretexts for doing so.




tazzygirl -> RE: What about the other victims? (1/26/2013 7:30:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Oh ffs...

quote:

If you make them illegal with a stiff enough penalty for being caught with one, then offer enough on a buy back, you may find you get a big part of those as well. Just a guess.


Now, where and when did we try that before?



Actually LA County tried the big price buy back, and again the criminal element turned in one or two of their guns for quick cash.


Did they stiffen the penalties of being caught with those weapons?




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