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RE: What about the other victims? - 1/26/2013 9:41:05 PM   
Nosathro


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Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
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I thought you said you were not in favor of a complete ban of all guns? the most prevalent gun used in drive buys is the semi auto pistol, 9mm, 10mm, 40 cal, 380, 45, actually every pistol caliber. So you have to ban all pistols.


[/quote]

I would really like to see the evidence on that one......

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: What about the other victims? - 1/26/2013 9:42:25 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

If you make them illegal with a stiff enough penalty for being caught with one, then offer enough on a buy back, you may find you get a big part of those as well. Just a guess.



It has not worked in cities in the US that have such programs, the criminals turn in one or two while they have six or ten more at home. This is by their own words.

So, try again.


You have the right to opinion...but you always lack proof....

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: What about the other victims? - 1/26/2013 9:53:42 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

If you make them illegal with a stiff enough penalty for being caught with one, then offer enough on a buy back, you may find you get a big part of those as well. Just a guess.



It has not worked in cities in the US that have such programs, the criminals turn in one or two while they have six or ten more at home. This is by their own words.

So, try again.


You have the right to opinion...but you always lack proof....

I gave links backing up my statement, but sense you missed them here and here.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: What about the other victims? - 1/26/2013 10:55:39 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		I find this all very interesting, especilly when I used this same report on another thread, Kirate that this report proved nothing. Now he uses to support his view. There are a few things in this report Kirate did not use, as he claims I also exclude

crime victims are willing to take the risks of forcefully resisting the offender is that most offenders faced by victims choosing such an action are unarmed, or armed only with less lethal weapons. Relatively few victims try to use a gun against adversaries who are themselves armed with guns. According to this survey, offenders were armed with some kind of weapon in 48% of DGU (Meaning 52% were unarmed, really brave thise armed "other victims" are facing unarmed people with a gun). but to be hone, only 14% of all violent crime victims face offenders armed with gun.

Only 19% of all DGU cases involved only assault.
Only 24% of the gun defenders in the present study reported firing the gun, and only 8% report wounding an adversary Further, 17% of the gun crimes reported in the NCVS involve the offender shooting at the victim, and only 3% involve the victim suffering a gunshot wound. Only 24% of the incidents involved the defender firing their gun, and only 16% involved the defender shooting at their adversary. [89] In only 4.5% of the cases did the offender shoot at the defender (I wonder who they were shooting at in the other 84% let alone who the hit in other 96.5%)
46% of the Defender were not threaten nor attacked.
11% did have property taken.
The Crime most Defender thought was being commited, burglary 33.8%, rape and sexual assualt was only 8.2%.
The Offender shot at the Defender 4.5% as compaired to 24% of Defenders shooting and remember it was only 16% did they shoot at Offender only hiting the Offender 3% of the time.

I also use the same FBI report that you again stated was meaningless because it came from the government. I have stated that studies like the FBI report, but yours was for 2010 the latest 2012 show crime going back up...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/17/us/violent-crime/index.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2012/1018/Spike-in-assaults-leads-US-violent-crime-rate-to-first-increase-since-93

So all you Munchausen (including those "other victims") out there...sorry go solicite sympathy elsewhere

< Message edited by Nosathro -- 1/26/2013 11:16:22 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: What about the other victims? - 1/26/2013 11:00:07 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

If you make them illegal with a stiff enough penalty for being caught with one, then offer enough on a buy back, you may find you get a big part of those as well. Just a guess.



It has not worked in cities in the US that have such programs, the criminals turn in one or two while they have six or ten more at home. This is by their own words.

So, try again.


You have the right to opinion...but you always lack proof....

I gave links backing up my statement, but sense you missed them here and here.


First link Here was something werid, second still had no proof as to it effectness...

Thursday, January 6, 1994 - Page updated at 12:00 AM

E-mail article Print

Do Gun Buybacks Really Do Any Good? -- Effectiveness, If Any, Is Hard To Measure
By Mike Mokrzycki
AP
NEW YORK - A toys-for-guns swap brings in hundreds of weapons in one of New York City's toughest neighborhoods, and gun-related crime drops by more than 50 percent.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: What about the other victims? - 1/26/2013 11:12:48 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Why are phone surveys valid, as referred by you in popularity of the president or someone running for that office, but not valid in this instance?


The survey that was conducted in the Dewey/Truman election that showed Dewey winning was conducted by telepone.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: What about the other victims? - 1/26/2013 11:15:44 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jul/29/judson-phillips/founder-tea-party-nation-claims-us-government-has-/

Please, do so. That 2.5 million Isnt to teach prostitutes to drink responsibly. Its for the effects of alcohol and the transmission rate of HIV. And, where are we going to study this in the US?


Oh god..this is a Tea Party claim....

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: What about the other victims? - 1/26/2013 11:38:43 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Do you really think asking random people over the phone, with no attempt at verifying the facts of the claims, is a proper way to measure how often something occurs?

Yes.


You should read the report, even the authors had questions about it's accuracy.

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: What about the other victims? - 1/26/2013 11:53:29 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

If you make them illegal with a stiff enough penalty for being caught with one, then offer enough on a buy back, you may find you get a big part of those as well. Just a guess.

The buyback offered would have to be greater than the cost of the gun so criminals could profit from it.

K.


Really, care to read.....

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/new_jersey/20130126_ap_trentongunbuybacknetsmorethan1000weapons.html?ref=twitter.com

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/01/26/saturday-san-mateo-gun-buyback/

http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics/2013/01/26/big-lines-at-gun-buyback-which-nets-a-missile-launcher/

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2013/jan/08/tucson-shootings-spark-gun-buyback/

http://www.thestewpot.org/buyback.asp

You do have wit, Kirata, you should try a career in stand up comedy.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: What about the other victims? - 1/27/2013 3:45:22 AM   
Aylee


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Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

FR

The one and only even remotely accurate survey of defensive gun use, the National Crime Victimization Survey, which is based on face to face interviews done by Census Bureau employees shows that the defensive use of guns is much lower than the phone surveys used in this journal article. As a matter of fact the article spends an early section trying to handwave away the facts and trying to justify using a random phone sample with no attempts to verify the claims made which is a valid survey about opinions but not about facts.


So. . . the chart does not count because it does not fit your reality. Great. Good of you to open your mind.


No the chart is irrelevant because it does not reflect reality. The chart is data from a bunch of phone surveys. Do you really think asking random people over the phone, with no attempt at verifying the facts of the claims, is a proper way to measure how often something occurs?


It seems that you go with the thought that a woman raped and strangled with her own panties is morally superior to the woman standing over her attacker with a smoking gun. I know which reality I want to live in. It would be the one in which I get to hold the smoking gun. (Do guns even smoke anymore?)


_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: What about the other victims? - 1/27/2013 6:35:00 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

FR

The one and only even remotely accurate survey of defensive gun use, the National Crime Victimization Survey, which is based on face to face interviews done by Census Bureau employees shows that the defensive use of guns is much lower than the phone surveys used in this journal article. As a matter of fact the article spends an early section trying to handwave away the facts and trying to justify using a random phone sample with no attempts to verify the claims made which is a valid survey about opinions but not about facts.


So. . . the chart does not count because it does not fit your reality. Great. Good of you to open your mind.


No the chart is irrelevant because it does not reflect reality. The chart is data from a bunch of phone surveys. Do you really think asking random people over the phone, with no attempt at verifying the facts of the claims, is a proper way to measure how often something occurs?


It seems that you go with the thought that a woman raped and strangled with her own panties is morally superior to the woman standing over her attacker with a smoking gun. I know which reality I want to live in. It would be the one in which I get to hold the smoking gun. (Do guns even smoke anymore?)


No and your claim is repugnant beyond belief.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: What about the other victims? - 1/27/2013 6:57:56 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

No and your claim is repugnant beyond belief.


Then why do you not champion the woman standing over her attacker with a smoking gun? (pro-gunners would applaud it) You do argue against the smoking gun, don't you? All the time and all over the P&R people like you do. It's always about the criminal and never about the victim.

How can it be repugnant?


_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: What about the other victims? - 1/27/2013 7:25:19 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

FR

The one and only even remotely accurate survey of defensive gun use, the National Crime Victimization Survey, which is based on face to face interviews done by Census Bureau employees shows that the defensive use of guns is much lower than the phone surveys used in this journal article. As a matter of fact the article spends an early section trying to handwave away the facts and trying to justify using a random phone sample with no attempts to verify the claims made which is a valid survey about opinions but not about facts.


So. . . the chart does not count because it does not fit your reality. Great. Good of you to open your mind.


No the chart is irrelevant because it does not reflect reality. The chart is data from a bunch of phone surveys. Do you really think asking random people over the phone, with no attempt at verifying the facts of the claims, is a proper way to measure how often something occurs?


It seems that you go with the thought that a woman raped and strangled with her own panties is morally superior to the woman standing over her attacker with a smoking gun. I know which reality I want to live in. It would be the one in which I get to hold the smoking gun. (Do guns even smoke anymore?)


I sugguest you read the box "Smokeless ammuntion"

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: What about the other victims? - 1/27/2013 7:26:30 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

No and your claim is repugnant beyond belief.


Then why do you not champion the woman standing over her attacker with a smoking gun? (pro-gunners would applaud it) You do argue against the smoking gun, don't you? All the time and all over the P&R people like you do. It's always about the criminal and never about the victim.

How can it be repugnant?



As for me I would rather champion this woman. Of course you would claim since she black she is on welfare and eating steaks. If you had read the report that is posted only 4.5% of the defenders actually shoot and hit the offender, chances are she missed anyway.

http://news.yahoo.com/chicago-woman-loses-4th-child-gun-violence-050937554.html

< Message edited by Nosathro -- 1/27/2013 7:33:21 AM >

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: What about the other victims? - 1/27/2013 7:36:32 AM   
imdoingitagain


Posts: 77
Joined: 4/7/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
(Do guns even smoke anymore?)


Put enough rounds through them and they will...

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: What about the other victims? - 1/27/2013 7:53:10 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

No and your claim is repugnant beyond belief.


Then why do you not champion the woman standing over her attacker with a smoking gun? (pro-gunners would applaud it) You do argue against the smoking gun, don't you? All the time and all over the P&R people like you do. It's always about the criminal and never about the victim.

How can it be repugnant?


I advocate that every woman should know self defence techniques which actually work rather than some dumbass fanatsy where a woman being attacked fumbles in her purse for a handgun she has seldom fired and has never used against another human being.


(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: What about the other victims? - 1/27/2013 8:31:11 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

No and your claim is repugnant beyond belief.


Then why do you not champion the woman standing over her attacker with a smoking gun? (pro-gunners would applaud it) You do argue against the smoking gun, don't you? All the time and all over the P&R people like you do. It's always about the criminal and never about the victim.

How can it be repugnant?


I advocate that every woman should know self defence techniques which actually work rather than some dumbass fanatsy where a woman being attacked fumbles in her purse for a handgun she has seldom fired and has never used against another human being.





I thoroughly enjoy your strawman argumentation. I do. Really

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: What about the other victims? - 1/27/2013 8:31:17 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
(Do guns even smoke anymore?)

If they do, I recommend that they stop: if they do not stop, they might get cancer.


_____________________________

"I tend to pay attention when Rule speaks" - Aswad

"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: What about the other victims? - 1/27/2013 9:17:47 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
(Do guns even smoke anymore?)

If they do, I recommend that they stop: if they do not stop, they might get cancer.


Those guns won't be allowed to smoke in a public restaurant or public building in Ohio. They better watch what they are doing, and where they are doing it.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: What about the other victims? - 1/27/2013 10:11:23 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

No and your claim is repugnant beyond belief.


Then why do you not champion the woman standing over her attacker with a smoking gun? (pro-gunners would applaud it) You do argue against the smoking gun, don't you? All the time and all over the P&R people like you do. It's always about the criminal and never about the victim.

How can it be repugnant?


I advocate that every woman should know self defence techniques which actually work rather than some dumbass fanatsy where a woman being attacked fumbles in her purse for a handgun she has seldom fired and has never used against another human being.





I thoroughly enjoy your strawman argumentation. I do. Really

So it is your argument that every woman should carry a gun in hand at all times and fire it frequently and use it against many people?

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 100
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