RE: Expert designations (Full Version)

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littlewonder -> RE: Expert designations (2/18/2013 5:38:28 PM)

I don't call myself a chef or an expert cook so my burning the biscuits is ok. Now, if I'm calling myself an expert chef, then I would think they have done it enough times that they know the biscuits won't burn. They know how the ingredients work separately and together, they know the temperatures, etc...




MistressTantara -> RE: Expert designations (2/18/2013 8:00:04 PM)

I would consider someone an expert at something they have done multiple times, for multiple years. I was a professional Dominatrix for over 14 years, I have played really every game there that exists within my personal limits. I marked the ones I really like that I have a lot of experience in and the ones I really don't like that I have a lot of experience in. My reasoning is, if some guy asks if I do "fill in the blank" and it is not something I am interested in, I say, not interested. Inevitably, that will lead to the occasional gentleman thinking that I am not interested simply because I don't know enough about it, haven't done it enough or with the right people, etc. So I mark expert, I have done it, and I still don't like it, I have most likely done it 70 to as many as 200 times (more than that for CD play) and I still don't like it, it helps draw that line of discussion to a close when I explain that part.




LafayetteLady -> RE: Expert designations (2/18/2013 10:00:27 PM)

Interesting way of thinking about it. For me, if it is on my dislike, or hard limit list, there is no explanation going to be given. I don't like it, it isn't happening. Pretty simple.

I do not like water sports, but I'll be damn if some guy once didn't suggest reading some essay someone wrote about the joys of water sports. I read it, and the supposed reason that it's wonderful I giggled at what I found the stupidity of it. When the guy asked me had I read it, I told him that I had, and then proceeded to tell him what I thought of it. For some reason we didn't talk after that, lol.




subinsilicon -> RE: Expert designations (2/19/2013 12:33:28 AM)

I'm an expert if I say I'm an expert!

Of course, everyone rates their skills better when they're their own judge. Heh heh.




theshytype -> RE: Expert designations (2/19/2013 10:23:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subinsilicon

I'm an expert if I say I'm an expert!

Of course, everyone rates their skills better when they're their own judge. Heh heh.


I'm my own worst critic. Even on performance reviews, my superiors always increase my self-evaluations.

LafayetteLady, I believe I know what essay you're referring to.




TAFKAA -> RE: Expert designations (2/19/2013 2:04:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

There's a difference between attempting to find a universal definition for a term and discussing what a term means to an individual. You provide an excellent example for this. It's supposed to be a personal thing. Nobody is saying that the definition of "expert" in this sense has to be a universal conclusion. It's more about looking at what each person has for their own criteria.
You will find the replies are usually specifically chosen so that each individual can maintain their own self-image. They will construct their 'rules' to match their own self-assessment against their own experience and capability.

quote:


Not entirely different than asking what the term slave means. I'm sure that you and I have some different nuances about the word and how it relates to M/s. Still, each of us should know what that definition entails should we choose to engage in such a dynamic. When you ask someone what it is that makes them think they are a slave, you do expect them to have some basis to choose the term, don't you?

It's different. A slave is a statement of identity and you could argue that nobody has the right to argue with someone's own self-determined idea of identity - regardless of how we might think otherwise.

Assuming the title of 'expert' is a statement of capability and ego. The two combine to produce that self-assessment. Someone with little capability but significant ego may assume that mantle themselves while someone with significant capability but a paucity of ego may not. Obviously then, it becomes clear that self-assumption of that mantle is worthless because it provides no way of assessing the capability component of the equation - which is, after all, what we're really interested in knowing.

Consequently, it follows that the only worthwhile assessment of capability is some kind of peer assessment which occurs outside the social interactions of a given community - lest nepotism or other forms of positive or negative bias influence the outcome.

Essentially, we are all creatures of ego. Because of that, there's an unconscious drive to distinguish ourselves in some way from others in a given community. You see it repeated ad nauseam both here and on Fetlife. People attempting to exercise that drive - usually by disparaging other individuals or groups in some way.

Independent assessment is important in a community such as this, especially because so many of the activities have safety considerations and the increasing potential for legal liability. In fact I would be very surprised if we did not see the notion of legal liability becoming an increasing part of community considerations. The various strategies people employ to try and keep the realities of our societies at bay are mere window dressing over a very real problem - that the social mores of the kink world (particularly with regard to consent, pain, suffering and damage) are seriously out of step with the social mores of the societies in which we reside. And the disparity between the two will inevitably clash.

Consequently, avoiding that requires the kink community to wake up and stop playing at what we're doing. To start considering the notions of certification and legal liability - because it's only going to take one case which sets legal precedent to shove a large fat fly in the kink ointment.

From that perspective, it really is important for the conversation around capability to start factoring in a professional-practitioner type approach to activities with significant risk. If you wish to rig, tie or cut, your own self-assessment is insufficient and and your capability to do so should be assessed independently. I would argue that the subs who give themselves up to a Dom or Top's care deserve no less.




Kana -> RE: Expert designations (2/19/2013 2:29:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: theshytype


quote:

ORIGINAL: subinsilicon

I'm an expert if I say I'm an expert!

Of course, everyone rates their skills better when they're their own judge. Heh heh.


I'm my own worst critic. Even on performance reviews, my superiors always increase my self-evaluations.

LafayetteLady, I believe I know what essay you're referring to.

I'm the same way.
Heck, I've gotten in trouble for some of the self grades I've given. I always know where I can do better.




LafayetteLady -> RE: Expert designations (2/19/2013 3:16:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: theshytype


quote:

ORIGINAL: subinsilicon

I'm an expert if I say I'm an expert!

Of course, everyone rates their skills better when they're their own judge. Heh heh.


I'm my own worst critic. Even on performance reviews, my superiors always increase my self-evaluations.

LafayetteLady, I believe I know what essay you're referring to.


Really? Does it try to present it as a warm, fuzzy act that brings people closer together than any other activity ever could?




LadyPact -> RE: Expert designations (2/19/2013 3:17:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TAFKAA
You will find the replies are usually specifically chosen so that each individual can maintain their own self-image. They will construct their 'rules' to match their own self-assessment against their own experience and capability.

This is very much why I started the thread the way that I did. It's also why I wanted to put out there that My rules won't necessarily fit for other people because they are going to have their own criteria.


quote:

It's different. A slave is a statement of identity and you could argue that nobody has the right to argue with someone's own self-determined idea of identity - regardless of how we might think otherwise.

I see your point about self-identity, but I'm rather stubborn in the belief that a person has to live that way to make those claims.


quote:

Assuming the title of 'expert' is a statement of capability and ego. The two combine to produce that self-assessment. Someone with little capability but significant ego may assume that mantle themselves while someone with significant capability but a paucity of ego may not. Obviously then, it becomes clear that self-assumption of that mantle is worthless because it provides no way of assessing the capability component of the equation - which is, after all, what we're really interested in knowing.

Consequently, it follows that the only worthwhile assessment of capability is some kind of peer assessment which occurs outside the social interactions of a given community - lest nepotism or other forms of positive or negative bias influence the outcome.

This is where the presenting really comes into play for Me. It's easy to do it in your own backyard. (Meaning your local kink group.) It's different when you do the same gig in another location where folks may not necessarily know you, like you, and have nothing but the presentation to base their opinion on.


quote:

Essentially, we are all creatures of ego. Because of that, there's an unconscious drive to distinguish ourselves in some way from others in a given community. You see it repeated ad nauseam both here and on Fetlife. People attempting to exercise that drive - usually by disparaging other individuals or groups in some way.

Independent assessment is important in a community such as this, especially because so many of the activities have safety considerations and the increasing potential for legal liability. In fact I would be very surprised if we did not see the notion of legal liability becoming an increasing part of community considerations. The various strategies people employ to try and keep the realities of our societies at bay are mere window dressing over a very real problem - that the social mores of the kink world (particularly with regard to consent, pain, suffering and damage) are seriously out of step with the social mores of the societies in which we reside. And the disparity between the two will inevitably clash.


This is a trend that I think is happening already. Seminars on BDSM and the law are becoming more frequent. I see this as a very positive thing. How a person handles themselves when those clashes happen can save a lot of complications and getting the information on what steps to take is very valuable.


quote:

Consequently, avoiding that requires the kink community to wake up and stop playing at what we're doing. To start considering the notions of certification and legal liability - because it's only going to take one case which sets legal precedent to shove a large fat fly in the kink ointment.

Have you happened to notice the threads on what was being called the Missouri sex slave case? A lot of what was being presented as evidence there really are the same activities that we discuss on these boards every day. How qualified the guy was that was charged in that case, I have no idea.


quote:

From that perspective, it really is important for the conversation around capability to start factoring in a professional-practitioner type approach to activities with significant risk. If you wish to rig, tie or cut, your own self-assessment is insufficient and and your capability to do so should be assessed independently. I would argue that the subs who give themselves up to a Dom or Top's care deserve no less.
I'm absolutely all for subs/bottoms using some kind of criteria to evaluate whether the person they are playing with for the first time is really competent at the play or not. For those who do play publicly, sometimes, this can be easier. A person can have the opportunity to see a top play with others to help them make an assessment if they are a safe person to play with or not.

For those that don't play publicly, this can be a little more challenging. I'm not sure how easy it would be to convince those who play at home only to be critiqued in their skills. It would be a nice option though. Maybe a way for subs/bottoms to have a little reassurance in those first few play times.





Snitch -> RE: Expert designations (2/19/2013 4:33:40 PM)

I'm an expert on snitching - and - who is to prove me otherwise! :)




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