RE: Did the GOP really understand the last election?

RE: Did the GOP really understand the last election? (Full Version)

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JeffBC -> RE: Did the GOP really understand the last election? (3/14/2013 8:52:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl No. Its women that have deal with the issue. Its ok. you are a man, you dont have to worry about it. [;)] I hate to talk about ... you know... birth control here but it's worth noting that women also disproportionately deal with the results of unprotected sex and unwanted pregnancies. And just as a sanity check, does anyone actually believe that men in power don't get a fair amount of sex outside of marriage? That means any male politician standing up and talking about abstinence is almost certainly a hypocrite. Honestly, I'd be more inclined to listen to someone who actually HAD some sort of moral values talk about morality and values. That rules out any politician I know of.

tazzygirl -> RE: Did the GOP really understand the last election? (3/14/2013 8:54:56 AM)
Sadly enough, for me, rules out most religious leaders as well.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Did the GOP really understand the last election? (3/14/2013 9:00:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: To an extent, actually, I have been. It isn't in a gynecological, or pharmacological pursuit, but I have gotten the basics of reproductive anatomy and physiology as part of my college education. As has any high school senior. Doesnt mean you are trained. Really? Any high school senior has had college classes in anatomy and physiology?!? quote: quote: So what? That's their issue to deal with. And, a position I have stated, several times now, I don't agree with. Plus, it has nothing to do with my response. No. Its womenthat have deal with the issue. Its ok. you are a man, you dont have to worry about it. [;)] True, to a point. I don't have to worry about it. I don't have to care about it. I don't worry about it, but I do care about it. And this attitude you are taking seems to fly in the face of your carping about men not taking responsibility for their role(s) in birth control, abortion, pregnancy care, etc.

DomYngBlk -> RE: Did the GOP really understand the last election? (3/14/2013 9:01:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic And you know they didnt try the alternative how? Never said they didn't. Never said it would work for them. But, there are options. And, without taking birth control pills, there are still other methods of pregnancy prevention. And, there is also abstinence. And, for those men who are asshats who coerced the women into intercourse, there are two other options to stick a dick that won't get her pregnant. Man you must have been teleported here from another time. Look, you are talking nonsense. Deal with reality. Nancy Reagan talking about "just say no" when she didn't say no didn't work either. You are trying to live in a dream world that don't exist.

JeffBC -> RE: Did the GOP really understand the last election? (3/14/2013 9:07:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Sadly enough, for me, rules out most religious leaders as well. Here's a thought. How about we go ahead and get rid of all contraception. While we're at it we should also institute mandatory DNA testing for all newborns and it should be automatic that the lifestyle of the child should be made that of the highest earning parent... note I said "lifestyle" to avoid all the accounting games rich folks get up to. So basically then every time a politician or a CEO wants some nookie on the side it might cost him a very sizable fraction of his total net worth with no hidy holes allow like "living trusts" and the like. I wonder if men would still be all that interested in this crusade against birth control if they actually had to pay the price tag for their moral convictions.... either no extra-marital sex or vast reduction in wealth. While we're at it we should probably eliminate any sort of settlement or "way out" for married sex too. In the event of divorce both households are equalized in terms of lifestyle... again no hidey holes allowed and no pre-nuptial agreements.

tazzygirl -> RE: Did the GOP really understand the last election? (3/14/2013 1:29:23 PM)
quote: Really? Any high school senior has had college classes in anatomy and physiology?!? https://www.google.com/search?q=high+school+anatomy+and+physiology&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS490US490&aq=f&oq=high+school+anatomy+and+physiology&aqs=chrome.0.57j62l3.13693&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 quote: True, to a point. I don't have to worry about it. I don't have to care about it. I don't worry about it, but I do care about it. And this attitude you are taking seems to fly in the face of your carping about men not taking responsibility for their role(s) in birth control, abortion, pregnancy care, etc. What responsibilities in abortion? In pregnancy? I raised my son alone. And was very glad to do so. My bitch here is that a bunch of very very old men make the rules for a group of very young women to prevent them from the medical treatments they require.

tazzygirl -> RE: Did the GOP really understand the last election? (3/14/2013 1:31:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Sadly enough, for me, rules out most religious leaders as well. Here's a thought. How about we go ahead and get rid of all contraception. While we're at it we should also institute mandatory DNA testing for all newborns and it should be automatic that the lifestyle of the child should be made that of the highest earning parent... note I said "lifestyle" to avoid all the accounting games rich folks get up to. So basically then every time a politician or a CEO wants some nookie on the side it might cost him a very sizable fraction of his total net worth with no hidy holes allow like "living trusts" and the like. I wonder if men would still be all that interested in this crusade against birth control if they actually had to pay the price tag for their moral convictions.... either no extra-marital sex or vast reduction in wealth. While we're at it we should probably eliminate any sort of settlement or "way out" for married sex too. In the event of divorce both households are equalized in terms of lifestyle... again no hidey holes allowed and no pre-nuptial agreements. lol You have an evil mind. I like that.

JeffBC -> RE: Did the GOP really understand the last election? (3/14/2013 1:44:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl You have an evil mind. I like that. Evil? Moi? I would have thought that standing up for one's own moral convictions was the height of virtue. I just want to facilitate that so that everyone can be more virtuous and pure. I'm a nice guy like that.

Moonhead -> RE: Did the GOP really understand the last election? (3/14/2013 2:04:13 PM)
Well, when politicians actually start making an effort to live up to their moral convictions, rather than assuming that those are for the electorate and they can do whatever the fuck they like themselves, a measure like that might be taken. (Personally, I love the idea, but don't hold your breath waiting...)

DesideriScuri -> RE: Did the GOP really understand the last election? (3/14/2013 3:44:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Really? Any high school senior has had college classes in anatomy and physiology?!? https://www.google.com/search?q=high+school+anatomy+and+physiology&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS490US490&aq=f&oq=high+school+anatomy+and+physiology&aqs=chrome.0.57j62l3.13693&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 Yeah, any HS anat/phys class is comparable to Bachelor and Master level college courses. Yup. quote: quote: True, to a point. I don't have to worry about it. I don't have to care about it. I don't worry about it, but I do care about it. And this attitude you are taking seems to fly in the face of your carping about men not taking responsibility for their role(s) in birth control, abortion, pregnancy care, etc. What responsibilities in abortion? How about helping the mother through the process? Helping to pay for the procedure? quote: In pregnancy? I raised my son alone. And was very glad to do so. My bitch here is that a bunch of very very old men make the rules for a group of very young women to prevent them from the medical treatments they require. Shit, yeah, during pregnancy. Many women are emotionally labile during pregnancy simply due to the hormonal changes. Then, let's talk about helping them through all the discomforts and stresses, etc. Not every guy who got a woman pregnant is a d-bag. There are guys out there that do their best to help the mom(or mom-to-be) through the pregnancy.

tazzygirl -> RE: Did the GOP really understand the last election? (3/14/2013 3:54:53 PM)
quote: Yeah, any HS anat/phys class is comparable to Bachelor and Master level college courses. Yup. lol... For physical therapy? quote: How about helping the mother through the process? Helping to pay for the procedure? When and where did I denigrate men for not doing so? My only complaint was men trying to say that they shoild have a say in IF she could have one. quote: Shit, yeah, during pregnancy. Many women are emotionally labile during pregnancy simply due to the hormonal changes. Then, let's talk about helping them through all the discomforts and stresses, etc. Not every guy who got a woman pregnant is a d-bag. There are guys out there that do their best to help the mom(or mom-to-be) through the pregnancy. And this thread is about the GOP, the Church and contraception. If you wish to discuss the above, start a new thread.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Did the GOP really understand the last election? (3/14/2013 4:06:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Yeah, any HS anat/phys class is comparable to Bachelor and Master level college courses. Yup. lol... For physical therapy? Exercise Science (BS)/Clinical Kinesiology(MS) Yes, lots of anat/phys in there. Much more than anat/phys in HS.

tazzygirl -> RE: Did the GOP really understand the last election? (3/14/2013 4:07:15 PM)
And yet quite a bit less than a Physician or an RN.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Did the GOP really understand the last election? (3/14/2013 7:29:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl And yet quite a bit less than a Physician or an RN. Which I never claimed to have that much.

tazzygirl -> RE: Did the GOP really understand the last election? (3/14/2013 7:37:33 PM)
Which brings us back to your post. quote: To an extent, actually, I have been. It isn't in a gynecological, or pharmacological pursuit, but I have gotten the basics of reproductive anatomy and physiology as part of my college education. That was in response to mine... quote: Ugh! This is why I hate talking about women's health with men. Accept the fact that when you think you are right about how a woman's body works, you are going to be wrong and get rid of that thought. A basic understanding of reproduction is what is taught in high school. Which is evident by your many posts asking a million questions and providing nothing in the way of answers. Allow me to sum up this situation. BC is for more than simply preventing birth. It is a valid medical treatment for many purposes. The Church is denying that coverage. The EEOC has determined that, under Title VII and the Pregnancy Act, that is discrimination. Now, I realize you wish to argue for religious freedom. And I have no problem with any Catholic who does not want to take BC pills for any reason. However, if the Church is running a business, even a non-profit one, they are not exempt from the laws of the country they run those businesses in.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Did the GOP really understand the last election? (3/15/2013 5:45:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Which brings us back to your post. quote: To an extent, actually, I have been. It isn't in a gynecological, or pharmacological pursuit, but I have gotten the basics of reproductive anatomy and physiology as part of my college education. That was in response to mine... quote: Ugh! This is why I hate talking about women's health with men. Accept the fact that when you think you are right about how a woman's body works, you are going to be wrong and get rid of that thought. A basic understanding of reproduction is what is taught in high school. Which is evident by your many posts asking a million questions and providing nothing in the way of answers. Oh, so a "basics" of HS anatomy is the same as the "basics" of college-level coursework? Really? As for my questions, some are posed for me to gain some knowledge and some are simply for leading people into a different understanding (that is, I already know the answer, but think there is something missing from your (generic "your") understanding). I do ask questions because I like it when people think. Bouncing questions off people and getting their responses, answering their questions, and going back and forth (you know, having a discussion) is a fantastic way to learn and grow (and it will either solidify a position, or help form a new, more informed one). quote: Allow me to sum up this situation. BC is for more than simply preventing birth. It is a valid medical treatment for many purposes. The Church is denying that coverage. The EEOC has determined that, under Title VII and the Pregnancy Act, that is discrimination. Now, I realize you wish to argue for religious freedom. And I have no problem with any Catholic who does not want to take BC pills for any reason. However, if the Church is running a business, even a non-profit one, they are not exempt from the laws of the country they run those businesses in. Thank you for answering the questions you've answered, tazzy. And, thank you for demeaning me by attempting to make my opinions irrelevant because I'm not learned enough to know anything. Go on with your vitriol and rantings against the Catholic Church. But, it's obvious you have absolutely no desire to accept that I have a point of view that is as valid as yours and actually have a discussion. Be well.

JeffBC -> RE: Did the GOP really understand the last election? (3/15/2013 5:56:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl However, if the Church is running a business, even a non-profit one, they are not exempt from the laws of the country they run those businesses in. To the best of my knowledge churches are not exempt from the laws of the United States no matter what. We have some special conditions around churches but that is it. That doesn't seem like a particularly hard concept to grasp. I cannot, for the life of me, understand why we would allow a church to make a societal decision regarding optimum allocation of funding and minimum health care. The church is not the government. Isn't that the whole point of "separation of church & state"? How much control of the actual governance process do we give a church before we simply admit we have a theocracy?

tazzygirl -> RE: Did the GOP really understand the last election? (3/15/2013 6:57:06 AM)
quote: Thank you for answering the questions you've answered, tazzy. And, thank you for demeaning me by attempting to make my opinions irrelevant because I'm not learned enough to know anything. Go on with your vitriol and rantings against the Catholic Church. But, it's obvious you have absolutely no desire to accept that I have a point of view that is as valid as yours and actually have a discussion. The questions you have asked could have been pulled up from any medical or government web site. Its your game to ask inane questions then pretend you knew the answers after they were given. I am tenacious when it comes to women's issues and even when you treat it like a joke, someone else may read and learn something. I hate the Church, without a doubt. I dont hate catholics. Do try and understand that difference. quote: When your choice starts to cost me (generally speaking, nothing specific), shouldn't I have some say in that choice? I wanted to specifically address this from your post #53. The idea that a pregnancy doesnt cost you anything is... interesting. It costs everyone. It costs you in insurance premiums, it costs you in Medicaid, it costs you in TANF, it costs you in all those "freebies" you love to complain about. It costs in over crowding, it costs in carbon footprints, it costs you in educational expenses, it costs you in college tuition. And that is if the kid grows up and goes to college. If not, its minimum wage and food stamps, Medicaid. Depending on the person, it can even cost in an upswing in crime, public defenders, jail costs, more medical, ect ect ect. So, to say you are dead set against birth control because it "will cost" you is sorta funny from that perspective. Seems to me that will save you a hell of a lot of money. Just a few things to think about.

tazzygirl -> RE: Did the GOP really understand the last election? (3/15/2013 6:59:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl However, if the Church is running a business, even a non-profit one, they are not exempt from the laws of the country they run those businesses in. To the best of my knowledge churches are not exempt from the laws of the United States no matter what. We have some special conditions around churches but that is it. That doesn't seem like a particularly hard concept to grasp. I cannot, for the life of me, understand why we would allow a church to make a societal decision regarding optimum allocation of funding and minimum health care. The church is not the government. Isn't that the whole point of "separation of church & state"? How much control of the actual governance process do we give a church before we simply admit we have a theocracy? Churches themselves obtained an exemption from the BC mandate. Ok, I can see that. Who works for an actual church who doesnt follow their teachings? And the theocracy aspect should worry many. Yet we will see many atheists or proclaimed non-believers complain about birth control because it will "cost" them. Isnt it funny how many people want to worry about their own wallets yet dont see the hidden costs in not having birth control?

Hillwilliam -> RE: Did the GOP really understand the last election? (3/15/2013 7:01:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl And yet quite a bit less than a Physician or an RN. A physical therapist beginning a career now out of school will have taken more anatomy and physiology courses than an RN. (It requires a PhD now)

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