freedomdwarf1
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Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:
ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
The major difference between US and Australian approaches to gun ownership is that, in the US, the Second Amendment is a "right" to possess arms, while Australians are required to possess a valid license to possess guns. I would have thought this to be so glaringly obvious that it's almost self-evident but it seems not.
And I would have thought it glaringly obvious that while the 2nd Amendment is the reason for the differences, that is not the same thing as the differences in the laws themselves, which, if you were paying attention, you might have noticed was the actual topic.
I see the topic as "gun control and tragedies". What do you see??
In the US you have the 2nd, which you and many others defend as if your life depended on it.
In the US, your death by gun rates are 20x that of Oz.
In Oz and the UK, you have to prove you need a gun, other than for defence, before you can apply for a license to buy/own one.
In both countries, our gun deaths are at least a whole order of magnitude lower than that of the US.
In Oz, since the radical gun laws, there have been NO mass killings whatsoever.
And no, we aren't talking about any other statistic here - its guns and tragedies - which I take as death or severe injury by gun.
So quoting stats for assault or rape or anything else non-gun don't make any sense in this context.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:
ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
I cannot find any basis for your claim that "arguing in favor of Australia's approach to guns is inherently an argument against defensive carry."
Really? Well let me tell you then. Australia's gun laws do not accept self-defense as a legitimate reason for issuing a permit to purchase or carry a weapon. And if that sounds familiar, it's because you quoted it and then ignored it.
Ah yes! But you miss the point tweak is saying.
If you have a legit license in Oz (and the UK), you can carry too.
So your argument about not having a gun for defense reasons doesn't hold water here with regard to carry. 
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:
ORIGINAL: tweakabellequote:
How has assault and rape increased in Australia since the gun ban?
Good question. Would you like to supply us with an answer? To the best of my knowledge, no one here has claimed that there has been a significant change in these stats since tighter restrictions on gun ownership were introduced.
Now you're just making shit up. The statistics were posted, direct from the website of the Australian government, and you commented on them at the time, proposing the argument that they do not prove causation - ignoring the fact that you can't prove they don't - and despite the fact that the only claim advanced was that they reflect a worsening situation since the inception of the ban, from which people can draw their own conclusions. That is, if you don't mind, of course.
The stats you quoted were non-gun so they don't make any sense in this thread.
Sure, they might have gotten worse.
The same can be said for the UK too.
But..... Although there are more assaults and such, there are less DEATHS because that simple thing 'the gun' just isn't handy or easily obtainable.
That can't be said of the US where an assault or intrusion is likely to render you dead or severely wounded by gunshot.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:
ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Finally the law changes did not introduce a blanket gun "ban" - they imposed restrictions of the kinds of weapons that Australians could legally possess.
Nobody claimed otherwise, so this is just verbiage thrown in for show. You might want to try a costume for greater effect.
K.
Not verbiage - only if you think it is irrelevant.
Unfortunately, you want to twist the argument and introduce non-relevant 'facts' in an attempt to shoot down a relevant post.
The fact that many refer to the UK/Oz gun control as a 'ban' makes this very relevant to the post.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Yachtie
You have stated that, repeatedly. We get it! Now, care to address the fact that it does happen (kids alone) without resorting to only whining that it shouldn't? And holding parents accountable is another issue, but does not address when kids are home alone and whether they should be able to self defend?
Like tazzy, I firmly believe that KIDS should not be left with guns of any sort - except for a bubble gun!! 
I honestly think there are more likely to be mistakes and unwanted shootings from kids with guns than with idiotic adults.
I also think it's irresponsible and completely idiotic for any parent to leave a child with a gun unsupervised.
Next, you'll be advocating all kids should be trained in first aid and hold a drivers license from age 5 so they can drive their parents to ER when accidents happen.
Beside which, the kids shouldn't be left home alone.
Over here, it's a criminal offense to do so.
Perhaps the US should start dragging these irresponsible parents to jail until they learn it's not acceptable.
And, if the majority of US citizens didn't posses a gun, the intruders aren't likely to be carrying would they?
In which case, no gun is needed for defense and less tragedies would be the result.
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RE: gun control and tragedies - 
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