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Expressing Feelings to Master - 11/10/2004 5:49:56 AM

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i have a question for Masters ..when a sub/slave has issues with something that Master wishes her to do..Do you feel she has a right to voice her opinion or question it? Yes ultimately Masters word is final but should He take the time to listen and let His express themselves to Him? And then say Yea or Nay? any input would greatly be welcome to this submissive Thanks

RE: Expressing Feelings to Master - 11/10/2004 6:31:00 AM

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My big thing is open communication. I encourage it. That is just me but the importance of it is to make sure I am not missing something crucial in the relationship. I have a huge responsibility to my sub that I am more than happy to fullfill. So if she has something on her mind I want her to be comfortable enough to be able to share it with me.
Nuturing the relationship is important to me.

< Message edited by ManicVortex -- 11/10/2004 6:34:35 AM >

(in reply to honeybee462002)

RE: Expressing Feelings to Master - 11/10/2004 9:04:34 AM

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I am of the belief that one should accomplish the task first and ask questions later, unless of course, the questions are focused on how to accomplish the task. In my experience, I have seen that there are two types of questions. Questions that are meant to gather information and questions that are meant as a challenge. An information gathering question may be asking, "How would you like me to accomplish the task" while a challenging question may be, "Why do I have to accomplish this task?"

I value open communication and believe that most relationships fail because of it's absence. But I also think that there is a difference between asking a question to get more information, and asking a question in order to challenge authority. IMO

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to honeybee462002)

RE: Expressing Feelings to Master - 11/10/2004 9:59:33 AM

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quote:

when a sub/slave has issues with something that Master wishes her to do..Do you feel she has a right to voice her opinion or question it?

Yes i think you should always be allowed to express any concerns you have over something, especially if it involves your safety. At the beginning of the relationship did you discuss and negotiate any limits? Are you sub or slave according to your own definitions (let's not get into the definitons again).

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan

(in reply to honeybee462002)

RE: Expressing Feelings to Master - 11/10/2004 10:07:12 AM

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I always want to know how my sub is being affected by my actions, I want to know what is going on inside her mind, hence the screen name, and if I didn't care to know, Home Depot has doormats on sale!
But seriously, Communication is the key to this lifestyle, it is important that as a sub, you can express your feeling to him/her without feeling uncomfortable or anxious.

< Message edited by INSIDEYOURMIND -- 11/10/2004 12:37:07 PM >

_____________________________

If I got smart with you.................
How would you know?

(in reply to honeybee462002)

RE: Expressing Feelings to Master - 11/10/2004 10:37:53 AM

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honeybee,
It is not only something as a Master I 'wish' beth to do. It's her OBLIGATION to do so. Becoming a Master, and/or living 24/7 as a Master does not gain anyone the ability to read minds or have psychic powers. And he is not "taking" or losing time when this occurs he is investing it in the relationship. How much freer would you be to surrender yourself if you knew you could express yourself, your concerns, your questions?

Part of Trust is knowing that there are no hidden issues or concerns on either side of the relationship.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 11/10/2004 2:37:15 PM >

(in reply to honeybee462002)

RE: Expressing Feelings to Master - 11/10/2004 12:55:20 PM

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My Dom tells me over and over he doesn't want a brain dead sub. I need to think and act on my own. Why do I get told this over and over. Usually when he wants to go out to eat my response is "wherever you want" It is extremely hard for me to make a decision.
Regardless this falls into our life on different levels.
The bottom line is if you want your relationship to last any length of time you have to communicate. If the Dominant isn't wanting you to. The relationship will not last a lifetime. Because the submissive will become more and more repressed. Things are going to go downhill. It may take some time but it will happen.
I also agree with Thorns to an extent. Some people just ask questions to challenge others. That is being bratty, some call it a sam.
It just depends on how you are asking the question here. Which is actually a bit uncertain.
If a valid question, I'd say you have all rights to ask. However if trying to act like an ass, do you really need to ask it?

(in reply to honeybee462002)

RE: Expressing Feelings to Master - 11/10/2004 2:17:03 PM

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From: Calgary, Alberta
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this slave is constantly told by Master, "My cariad, I can not help you if you refuse to talk to Me. How am I supposed to know what's going on in that pretty lil mind of yours? I am not a mind reader." this slave does not always open up to Master when she should, and it annoys Him to no end, understandably so.

this slave had an occasion recently to ask Master what was wrong and when He didn't say, she got upset and told Him that what's good for the Goose was good for the Gander. by that she meant that He expects her to be open and honest about things that happen daily, but yet when He won't do the same it upsets her. she finally figured it out, He was trying to teach her a valuable lesson, one that was hard to learn but one she needed to learn.

this slave has come from an abusive past, and Master was well aware of this when W/we met. He knew how she felt about herself, why she would shy away when it came to talking about her feelings, why when W/we would scene in messenger or in a chat room she shyed away when He raised His hand with a whip, flogger, cane, paddle, riding crop in it.

this slave has come a long way in the past 17months she has been Master's slave, and knows she still has a ways to go, but she is striving her best to do right by Master. she met Master for the first time in Aug. of this year and it was the best week she ever had away from home in a very very long time. she cried, laughed, talked with Him, she told Him the paddle felt like bee stings after having told Him mosquito bites.

what this slave is trying to say, is that a Master/Mistress/Top/Dom/Domme can not help Their slave or the slave they happen to be caring for at the time unless that slave speaks up about their feelings, fears, wants, needs and desires.

this slave loves her Master SirTigerman with all she is, body, heart, mind and soul, and is grateful for His love, devotion, understanding, compassion, punishments, but most of all for the way He treats her is beyond what she ever expected from a Master.

_____________________________

The Path To Being A Good slave Takes Hard Work, A Willingness To Learn, Ability To Take Criticism and the Ability To Take Punishments Well. i Am Still Learning So Please Be Patient With me, As i Walk the Path to Being A good slave. SLRN: 742 958 000

(in reply to sub4hire)

RE: Expressing Feelings to Master - 11/10/2004 2:17:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrThorns

I am of the belief that one should accomplish the task first and ask questions later, unless of course, the questions are focused on how to accomplish the task.

~Thorns

What if the 'task' is abusive or illegal? What if it breaks a hard limit? Questioning the justification of an order is not a challenge to "authority" if the "authority" is out of control. Questioning can be used as avoidance behaviour but I think the difference between that and real concern is clear enough not to cause a problem.

A recent occurrence locally demonstrates. A (sorry excuse for a) “master” ordered his slave to perform oral sex in a place where the children of another submissive (not his own) might catch them. Result, traumatised kids, broken friendship between the submissives and soon (but not soon enough) the dissolution of the M/s relationship that caused all the grief.

There are two types of applied authority, IMO - Authoritarian, ruling by orders (and often hiding behind the "Do what I say not what I do." excuse) - and Authoritative, which leads primarily by example. I prefer the latter for new ground especially, and reserve the former for enforcing already agreed upon terms.

Asking or sharing is not disrespectful unless you intend it to be.

Z.

_____________________________

"Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water." (proverb)

(in reply to MrThorns)

RE: Expressing Feelings to Master - 11/10/2004 2:35:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

honeybee,
It is not only something as a Master I 'wish' beth to do. It's her OBLIGATION to do so. Becoming a Master, and/or living 24/7 as a Master does not gain anyone the ability to read minds or have psychic powers. And he is not taking time when this occurs he is investing it in the relationship. How much freer would you be to surrender yourself if you knew you could express yourself, your concerns, your questions?

Part of Trust is knowing that there are no hidden issues or concerns on either side of the relationship.

I'm with Merc, even though I didn't quite get this once sentence: "And he is not taking time when this occurs he is investing it in the relationship".

I'm pretty sure he meant that it's not waste of time, or a taking time away from the relationship - but an investment in the relationship. That's how I feel, anyway.

And....as cariad mentioned, I really do think that door swings both ways.

If I, as top, dom, master (whatever) get into a withholding pattern, I'm not giving the relationship what it needs either. She can't read minds any better than I can.

Best,

Yankeestick

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Expressing Feelings to Master - 11/10/2004 2:58:37 PM

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Zensee, I see your point and I can agree with you. If someone is tasked with performing something that is a hard limit, well then one must ask themselves if they are willing to continue within the relationship. I woud hope that a submissive that is involved in a relationship with clearly defined limits would not hesitate to question an order that conflicts with the agreement between the dominant and submissive.

My response was geared towards a healthy BDSM relationship. I do not believe that complete disregard to a submissive's hard limits, or encouraging a submissive to perform illegal acts to be a part of a healthy relationship. I was thinking more along the lines of, "Girl, bring me a glass of water" , kinda scenario.

Perhaps if the OP would like to elaborate on the specifics of the scenario, I would go into more depth.

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to Zensee)

RE: Expressing Feelings to Master - 11/10/2004 3:10:42 PM

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I would think that a Master listening to a slaves feelings is dependant on whether he wishes to keep the slave,,,and whether he wants true harmony in his household or a sham of harmony.Everyone is different though...Mykal

(in reply to honeybee462002)

RE: Expressing Feelings to Master - 11/11/2004 4:15:42 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrThorns

Perhaps if the OP would like to elaborate on the specifics of the scenario, I would go into more depth.

~Thorns

Good point. How about it honeybee? Some details would help.

Z.

_____________________________

"Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water." (proverb)

(in reply to MrThorns)

RE: Expressing Feelings to Master - 11/11/2004 6:31:50 AM

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Well Master and i were having a discussion...He has told me that i am to do as told without question ...to happily do whatever is asked of me ...i expressed that i felt like i sometimes needed to say can You please explain to me or may i please ask a question about this issue or help me to understand what you are wanting of me...if i question i am not being an obedient submissive and acting as a submissive should ...since i am for now a submissive and not a slave i feel i have a right to ask sometimes why? am i wrong in my thinking...this is the first real life Master( i had one for awhile that was everything a Master isnt so He doesnt count imo) i have had and we are both learning together ...He is not a closed minded man i just am trying to understand it all and not appear as the bad bratty submissive and yes i do know that end the end Masters word is final ...

(in reply to Zensee)

RE: Expressing Feelings to Master - 11/11/2004 7:33:54 AM

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Thank you for the clarification honeybee.

I won't try and tell you what you should do in your relationship, but I will tell you that I believe that a submissive has a responsibility to ask questions should something in her orders be unclear. I also believe that a submisiive has the same responsibility to question a dominant's orders, should the orders conflict with any limits she may have or any illegal activities the dominant may be ordering her to do.

I can also understand a training session that is centered around doing "exactly" what I tell a submissive to do and doing it without question. It can be a very effective training technique, however the dominant hopefully has his or her shit together. I'm not remotely aware of the compentency of your Master and I am not going to assume one way or another.

I guess the question is about trust. Do you trust this man enough to complete the tasks he assigns you without question? Do you trust that he will never disregard your hard limits? Do you trust that he will not require you to perform an illegal act? These are questions you need to ask yourself. Please keep in mind that trust in earned through consistent actions. (I know a lot of new submissives that say "I trust my Master with my life"...after knowing them for about a week. I see that as a false sense of trust. Real trust takes time.)

Good luck to you and yours,

Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to honeybee462002)

RE: Expressing Feelings to Master - 11/11/2004 11:31:10 AM

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Yes I think that if a slave finds something distasteful in the training program they have a right to ask...may not have a right to an answer but at least the Dom would know these feelings and perhaps adjust with it in consideration.

(in reply to ManicVortex)

RE: Expressing Feelings to Master - 11/11/2004 11:57:27 AM

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quote:

(I know a lot of new submissives that say "I trust my Master with my life"...after knowing them for about a week. I see that as a false sense of trust. Real trust takes time.)

this slave has to agree with that, because she has seen and heard of slaves/subs getting hurt after saying they trust their Master/Mistress with their lives.

this slave has known her Master online and off now for 17months as of Nov.29th. therefore, this slave feels she knows Him well enough to say she trusts Him with her life, especially after the way He treated her when W/we first met.

trust is earned and should never just be given willy nilly to any Dom/Domme "JMO"

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The Path To Being A Good slave Takes Hard Work, A Willingness To Learn, Ability To Take Criticism and the Ability To Take Punishments Well. i Am Still Learning So Please Be Patient With me, As i Walk the Path to Being A good slave. SLRN: 742 958 000

(in reply to Nvernilla)

RE: Expressing Feelings to Master - 11/11/2004 12:05:50 PM

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this slave has sworn to do as she is told without question or pause, but she also brought it to Master's attention that unless she knew exactly what He is asking of her she can't perform her duties to the best of her abilities as His slave.

she asked Him if she were told to do something and she needed clarification would it be alright to ask for it, He told her that seeing she wishes to perform her duties to the best of her abilities that it would be a good idea if she wasn't sure what He meant when He said to do something.

it sounds to this slave like you need to sit with Him and explain to Him that while you love Him, and wish toserve Him to the best of your abilities you can't do so unless you are clear on what He is ordering you to do. "JMO"

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The Path To Being A Good slave Takes Hard Work, A Willingness To Learn, Ability To Take Criticism and the Ability To Take Punishments Well. i Am Still Learning So Please Be Patient With me, As i Walk the Path to Being A good slave. SLRN: 742 958 000

(in reply to cariad)

RE: Expressing Feelings to Master - 11/11/2004 2:24:32 PM

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A slave should be free to say anything he or she wishes. Sometimes a master may not want to hear it, but eventually there has to be an opportunity for the slave to express his or her feelings.

And then it's up to the master to decide how to proceed.

Lam

(in reply to cariad)

RE: Expressing Feelings to Master - 11/11/2004 5:45:26 PM

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I do think that this is a very important decision for you, since it could be the last time for the forseeable future that you really get to make any decisions.

My thoughts are these: a full-time slave who is not allowed to use his or her mind is of the same worth as a slave who is mindless, thus a master who will forbids a slave from thinking is implicitly stating that their mind is so error-prone as to be of no value. If, on the other hand, you are not 24/7, what forfeiting your right to question accomplishes is to give you no protection from those limits which aren't expressed in writing. Never thought that facial branding or pelican drinking needed to be specified as hard limits? Too bad. You're told to do something which you are pretty positive cannot be safe? Pity.

For his sake, you should be able to use your mind in his service. For your sake, you should too. I hope that he will open his mind to these ideas, even if they weren't in his fantasy.

_____________________________

"Find more pleasure in intelligent dissent rather than passive agreement; for if you value intelligence as you should, the former implies a deeper agreement than the latter."
-- Bertrand Russell

(in reply to honeybee462002)

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