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[Poll]

Does being religious mean that you are:


More moral than the non-religious
  13% (8)
As moral as the non-religious
  36% (22)
Less moral than the non-religious
  18% (11)
chose none of the above as I refuse to voice an opinion yet still vote
  31% (19)


Total Votes : 60
(last vote on : 5/14/2014 8:05:37 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/3/2013 10:07:37 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

I asked a question... so shoo and let the grownups discuss

Heh. A question that miscast what he said. But okay, so it's an English language problem then. Don't fall off your horse about it. You'll get better with practice.

K.

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/3/2013 10:08:40 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

She saw that. I saw her see it. You did too. But she didn't say what holy means. I don't think she knows.


I am not sure why you are asking me what the word "holy" means, but here goes.
Holy means sacred/worthy of worship, etc.

People like you, are the reason I usually don't get involved in these threads.
I have a right to respond without being questioned, drilled, or demanded to answer your "questions".

-I normally don't respond to people, when I don't like the "tone" in which they are addressing me.
You can look up the word "tone".

Maybe you have an issue with me saying I am a Christian, and that gives me faith.
I can't imagine what your "issues" are with me.
I feel sorry for you.
As far as I know, I have never spoken to you before.
Peace

< Message edited by Marini -- 4/3/2013 10:22:55 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to FrostedFlake)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/3/2013 10:13:14 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake

This should be easy. It is after all the product you are selling.

I haven't seen her trying to "sell" anything to anybody. Are you always like this when your fur gets wet?

K.

(in reply to FrostedFlake)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/3/2013 10:14:41 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake

This should be easy. It is after all the product you are selling.

I haven't seen her trying to "sell" anything to anybody. Are you always like this when your fur gets wet?

K.

Thanks K, it does take all kinds in the world.
lol, first time I have been accused of "selling" something.

< Message edited by Marini -- 4/3/2013 10:19:51 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/3/2013 10:22:02 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		And here we go, some of the religious declaring that the only morality is that delivered by some sky guy which must be obeyed because that same sky guy threatens eternal torment if they are not.

How is that superior to someone who rationally arrives at the understanding that morality as this society understands it is mostly a set of rules which allow this society to function in orderly manner to the benefit of most of its members?

Why do believers think the only path to moral action is threats?

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/3/2013 10:24:34 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

And here we go, some of the religious declaring that the only morality is that delivered by some sky guy which must be obeyed because that same sky guy threatens eternal torment if they are not.


DK, in what post did I state anything about morality?
Or anything else that you just stated?
wow

I am not suprised that I am being attacked, but this is almost more
than usual.
I will let you continue your Christianity/religion bashing.

Peace and Blessings


< Message edited by Marini -- 4/3/2013 10:29:07 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/3/2013 10:29:46 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

And here we go, some of the religious declaring that the only morality is that delivered by some sky guy which must be obeyed because that same sky guy threatens eternal torment if they are not.

And which posts would those be, specifically?

K.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/3/2013 10:34:42 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

And here we go, some of the religious declaring that the only morality is that delivered by some sky guy which must be obeyed because that same sky guy threatens eternal torment if they are not.

And which posts would those be, specifically?

K.



lol, they don't exist.
It's the voices in his head.
These posts are actually entertaining tonight.

< Message edited by Marini -- 4/3/2013 10:37:22 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/3/2013 10:39:36 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Did you notice how he must define the faith of others for them, Mari? It's all our imaginary, "sky guy," while he places his faith (the defining characteristic of religious belief) in human rationality.

Meh. When I get through this crazy patch at work, and feel like actually getting into something here, we'll talk lost jobs, and creating new, better ones.

G'night.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/3/2013 10:41:49 PM   
Esinn


Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline 		Following YHVH/Allah in any modern capacity means you are a bit silly.

_____________________________

Let's break the law

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/3/2013 10:45:28 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

And here we go, some of the religious declaring that the only morality is that delivered by some sky guy which must be obeyed because that same sky guy threatens eternal torment if they are not.

And which posts would those be, specifically?

K.

Heretic's Yachtie's and tangentially Marini's.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/3/2013 10:47:59 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Did you notice how he must define the faith of others for them, Mari? It's all our imaginary, "sky guy," while he places his faith (the defining characteristic of religious belief) in human rationality.

Did I offend your delicate sensibility by not referring to your prefered sky guy with proper deference?

Maybe you should have not disrespected every atheist and agnostic by saying we are all inherently amoral
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Those who believe in something, will have a foundation and framework to support themselves on when their values are tested.

Those who believe in nothing, will not.


< Message edited by DomKen -- 4/3/2013 10:48:47 PM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/3/2013 11:10:04 PM   
Esinn


Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline 		I do not like anyone who believes their god will send my kid to rot in hell because my kid does not love their god. While I realize more sophisticated & savvy modern theists have came up with countless excuses to justify their feelings relevant to this. It just ain't for me. Though I am not the militant anti-theist type I once was.

_____________________________

Let's break the law

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/3/2013 11:38:10 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Maybe you should have not disrespected every atheist and agnostic by saying we are all inherently amoral

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Those who believe in something, will have a foundation and framework to support themselves on when their values are tested.



Why are you trying so hard to paint yourself (and every other Atheist and Agnostic in the world) as a victim? You have a foundation with which to support yourself when your values are tested. You've even told us part of what it is: Do no harm. That's all that's being said here. To be moral, you must believe that some things constitute moral precepts, the ignoring of which will lead to suffering, and therefore to which you hold yourself.

If a person claims to be a follower of Christ, we know what his or her moral precepts are. Or at least, we know what they should be. But if a person claims to be an Atheist, that doesn't tell us anything at all about what particular moral precepts they may hold. It is not a criticism of Atheists simply to observe that Atheism does not propound an explicit body of moral teachings that Atheists are called upon to embody and uphold.

Why you believe in "do no harm" as a moral precept is a separate question, and possibly an interesting one. It is not inherent in Atheism, but you believe it anyway. From where do Atheists get their morality? In the final analysis, I think it comes from the same place that religions got theirs. From within ourselves. Religions are a mess because human beings are, whether they're religious or not. And we can strive for better, whether we're religious or not.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 4/4/2013 12:00:43 AM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/4/2013 12:01:58 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Maybe you should have not disrespected every atheist and agnostic by saying we are all inherently amoral


Maybe you should broaden your horizons of perception, and try to comprehend that I didn't.

Good luck with that.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/4/2013 12:13:06 AM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

Being Christian, one should have an idea of the moral compass I should operate by. If one is Muslim I too should have an idea of the moral compass they should operate by. When it comes to an Atheist, I really have no idea at all.


I could agree with this, if it where the case that you could find either Muslims or Christians to actually behave in line with their religion's moral compass on a somewhat consistent basis.

But seeing that I can count the people I know who ascribe to either religion and actually "practice what they preach" on one hand, I am as clueless about a self-identified religious person's compass as I am of that of an Atheist. In the end, the only way to find out about other's moral compass seems to be to both talk to them about the subject, and then observe whether or not they actually behave in line with their self-stated believes... and even that's a rather cumbersome and flawed method at best.

Mostly, I just acknowledge that, aside from a few people I'm extremely close to, I go through life largely oblivious to what other people's moral compasses really look like.

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/4/2013 12:13:09 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

From where do Atheists get their morality?



What an interesting question.

Hmm.. I think about being subjected to various violations of simple humanity at the hands of my birth mother and I think.. I never want to be like that so I try to be more or less the opposite and when I see traits of her that come out in me, I do my best to quash them. I have first hand experience living for years in a home where there were few morals to be found. That didn't work out so well and logic would dictate changing course when what you do isn't working. I determined that living with morals was superior to living without them based on just my own personal experiences.. but then morals, God.. that's pretty personal stuff, so it works for me.

I appreciate that you make me think.



_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/4/2013 12:42:11 AM   
thezeppo


Posts: 441
Joined: 11/15/2012
Status: offline 		FR

I think its definitely possible for people to get their morals from their faith, but then equally possible for morals to come from elsewhere. Morality is a very personal thing. Religion is at root a guiding set of moral standards, but human nature adds that personal touch to it. I think its very easy for someone to be religious and amoral - in fact I know it is - just as its easy for an atheist to be moral. The opposite is also true. I definitely don't think its true that someone who shares your religion shares your morals.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/4/2013 1:01:45 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline 		FR~

Why should any religion have any basis or link to morality at all??

To me, a person's morality comes from within - not dictated by anything religious.

Frosty said "I think being a believer gives you a crutch, a cage, an excuse and someone to pass the buck to when you don't have a satisfying answer to an important question" and to a certain degree I agree with that.
Morality is very unique and individual to everyone.
If you need the support or belief of a religion to give you your morality compass or your base then you are weak-willed and using that as a crutch/excuse for not having your own.

And to back up that comment, I refer to something Marini said earlier -
"I really have no idea how I would handle this world, if I didn't believe in a higher power".
What is wrong in belief of the most ultimate power there is governing your own morality - YOURSELF!!
This is exactly where the athiests and agnostics get their morality from - not some ethereal deity.


Edit for typos.


< Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 4/4/2013 1:04:25 AM >

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/4/2013 1:05:41 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		If I may point out a nice fact, there have been a lot of serial killers that were religious.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 60
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