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RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/15/2013 7:39:35 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

FBI contention that 4 times as many crimes are stopped with guns


I failed to find that particular statistic and I looked...could you link it for me?


Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/15/2013 7:50:48 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 141
RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/15/2013 8:30:52 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

FBI contention that 4 times as many crimes are stopped with guns


I failed to find that particular statistic and I looked...could you link it for me?

I'm not sure what link that is either, but the first two posts in this thread (below) address defensive gun use in the United States.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4363388

K.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/15/2013 1:10:54 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Strange... I was never asked in any of these surveys...how accurate can they be?

I would like to see hard documented evidence such as FBI statistics as claimed...I am always willing to change my mind when faced with facts. Until then I will continue with my experiences.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/15/2013 4:05:45 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Strange... I was never asked in any of these surveys...how accurate can they be?

Oh, gee, I didn't know that. Well damn, if you were never asked they must be bunk. Sorry.

K.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/15/2013 4:17:31 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Strange... I was never asked in any of these surveys...how accurate can they be?

Oh, gee, I didn't know that. Well damn, if you were never asked they must be bunk. Sorry.

K.

Don't be so hard on yourself,we all screw up from time to time

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/15/2013 7:04:48 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		I failed to find that particular statistic and I looked...could you link it for me?

I will try to find it but I didn't post the original link.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/15/2013 7:07:25 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Strange... I was never asked in any of these surveys...how accurate can they be?

I would like to see hard documented evidence such as FBI statistics as claimed...I am always willing to change my mind when faced with facts. Until then I will continue with my experiences.

Butch

Neither was I, but my personal experiences support this.
Were you ever called on a political poll asking who you would vote for, I haven't been but that doesn't invalidate them.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 6/15/2013 7:10:03 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/15/2013 7:13:52 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Were you asked? Please anyone reading this thread were you asked ?

Do you see where I am going with this?

My opinion on the linked surveys.... They are crap with no documented statistics. Would you not find it odd that with the millions of responders that no one was asked on this thread? Or even heard of the surveys before?

I will change my tune if I see real evidence... At least on this point anyway.

< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/15/2013 7:18:14 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/15/2013 7:22:52 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		www.pulpless.com/gunclock/kleck2.html

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/15/2013 7:30:03 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Evidence please not propaganda. If there are FBI statistics as claimed then let's see them.

There could be such information but until I see it I am skeptical. I live in a very violent area and I can only think of two stories of where a gun was used by a private citizen to defend their home. In the same time there have been hundreds of gun murders and many many children killed or wounded by gun accidents.

I do have more than a few friends who own guns... so do I...none have used them in any kind of defense in their lives... yet two were victims of gun violence. One even while having a weapon on his person. Where are the four times as many crimes stopped by legal gun owners. Not in my town in any case.

But it could be different elsewhere but I would need to see the FBI statistics to believe it.


Butch



< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/15/2013 7:56:17 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/15/2013 8:15:56 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I want to add here... I am for the responsible ownership of guns... But...we are not being responsible and if we do not change eventually there will be a backlash that no gun owner will be happy with. Check THIS silly crap out... We as gun owners have problems...and our country has gun crime problems...ignoring the problems or over-reacting as above will only in the end mean more and stronger gun laws then were proposed just awhile back.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/15/2013 8:20:55 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/15/2013 8:37:53 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Do you see where I am going with this?

Yeah, I see where you're going. The thoughts and feelings of people who disagree with you are "silly crap," and a dozen or more surveys are evidence of nothing because nobody on this thread was polled. Got it. Thanks for sharing.

K.





< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/15/2013 8:50:25 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/15/2013 8:55:25 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I want to add here... I am for the responsible ownership of guns... But...we are not being responsible and if we do not change eventually there will be a backlash that no gun owner will be happy with. Check THIS silly crap out... We as gun owners have problems...and our country has gun crime problems...ignoring the problems or over-reacting as above will only in the end mean more and stronger gun laws then were proposed just awhile back.

Butch

So we give up everything that is asked or else same deal my first wife's lawyer gave me, as a result she got nothing.
Yes you do live in a high crime area even back in the 70's when I lived in n Mo St Louis was considered a high crime cesspool. My immediate family has stopped over half a dozen crimes with guns both in the Midwest and in the South. I would agree that overreaching will cause a backlash, and we are seeing it now with Sheriffs all over the country challenging new gun laws and refusing to enforce them. It is the antigun crowd that has overreached. The link I gave you explains and tries to convince your side wanted to outlaw some 3 million guns, ar-15s being over a million of them.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 153
RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/15/2013 9:04:09 PM   
SilverMark


Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I want to add here... I am for the responsible ownership of guns... But...we are not being responsible and if we do not change eventually there will be a backlash that no gun owner will be happy with. Check THIS silly crap out... We as gun owners have problems...and our country has gun crime problems...ignoring the problems or over-reacting as above will only in the end mean more and stronger gun laws then were proposed just awhile back.

Butch

So we give up everything that is asked or else same deal my first wife's lawyer gave me, as a result she got nothing.
Yes you do live in a high crime area even back in the 70's when I lived in n Mo St Louis was considered a high crime cesspool. My immediate family has stopped over half a dozen crimes with guns both in the Midwest and in the South. I would agree that overreaching will cause a backlash, and we are seeing it now with Sheriffs all over the country challenging new gun laws and refusing to enforce them. It is the antigun crowd that has overreached. The link I gave you explains and tries to convince your side wanted to outlaw some 3 million guns, ar-15s being over a million of them.


Ah, the posturing Sheriffs, I saw them line up with all their grandstanding during the last gun law debate. Not sure some of them are quite bright enough to understand the law, let alone enforce it. If they refuse to enforce any federal laws, they'll end up in a Federal Court in front of judges who would not hesitate to put them in prison in contempt, and held there until they decide they aren't the ones who make laws. As for the claims of stopping criminals with the use of fire arms, there are few police officers that have ever discharged their weapons in the act of stopping crime, no personal offense, but sounds like BS to me! Those that enforce the laws are not above them, those that think they are normally learn that no matter how important they are in their county, outside of it, they are just another person, badge or not.

_____________________________

If you have sex with a siamese twin, is it considered a threesome?

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
- Arnold H. Glasow

It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/15/2013 9:13:44 PM   
SilverMark


Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline 		The Defensive Gun Use studies vary wildly, if you use the study by Hemmingway at Northwestern and published in the Journal of Criminal Law and criminology, the most often statistics used are over-estimated by 17 times the actual number.

http://www.saf.org/lawreviews/hemenway1.htm

_____________________________

If you have sex with a siamese twin, is it considered a threesome?

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
- Arnold H. Glasow

It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

(in reply to SilverMark)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/15/2013 9:29:24 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I want to add here... I am for the responsible ownership of guns... But...we are not being responsible and if we do not change eventually there will be a backlash that no gun owner will be happy with. Check THIS silly crap out... We as gun owners have problems...and our country has gun crime problems...ignoring the problems or over-reacting as above will only in the end mean more and stronger gun laws then were proposed just awhile back.

Butch

So we give up everything that is asked or else same deal my first wife's lawyer gave me, as a result she got nothing.
Yes you do live in a high crime area even back in the 70's when I lived in n Mo St Louis was considered a high crime cesspool. My immediate family has stopped over half a dozen crimes with guns both in the Midwest and in the South. I would agree that overreaching will cause a backlash, and we are seeing it now with Sheriffs all over the country challenging new gun laws and refusing to enforce them. It is the antigun crowd that has overreached. The link I gave you explains and tries to convince your side wanted to outlaw some 3 million guns, ar-15s being over a million of them.


Ah, the posturing Sheriffs, I saw them line up with all their grandstanding during the last gun law debate. Not sure some of them are quite bright enough to understand the law, let alone enforce it. If they refuse to enforce any federal laws, they'll end up in a Federal Court in front of judges who would not hesitate to put them in prison in contempt, and held there until they decide they aren't the ones who make laws. As for the claims of stopping criminals with the use of fire arms, there are few police officers that have ever discharged their weapons in the act of stopping crime, no personal offense, but sounds like BS to me! Those that enforce the laws are not above them, those that think they are normally learn that no matter how important they are in their county, outside of it, they are just another person, badge or not.

I agree that those Sheriffs who refuse to enforce the law are at best on shaky ground but as one pointed out if the feds won't let us enforce immigration law why should we have to enforce gun laws. Are not the President and AG equally bound to enforce the law, do you really want to open that can of worms by starting the prosecutions The ones who are suing to overturn laws are well within their rights. To echo KDsub I have to accept personal experience and in my family the ratio is about 6-1 in favor of stopping crimes using firearms. As for being overestimated non of those 6 were ever reported to the authorities so I have to believe that the number is grossly underestimated.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 6/15/2013 9:35:23 PM >

(in reply to SilverMark)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/16/2013 7:01:44 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
~ FR ~

Defensive Gun Use Incident Map

K.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 157
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