quote:

Now you want to infer that the total paper trail that would prove the people actually voted to create the states, for all 50 states just magically vaporized.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Nope. Im not a historian, Im not inferring anything

quote:

Now you want to infer that the total paper trail that would prove the people actually voted to create the states, for all 50 states just magically vaporized.

Wow, we had 50 states back then? Why wasnt I taught that?

According to your research, which states didnt ratify it?

quote:

"no referendums were voted upon in ANY state by the inhabitants to create the states"

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Its late and Im tired. Just post your response and I will pick this back up in the morning. Im sure by then you can show me the links to all the states and when they required a referendum for ratification of constitutions. [;)]

Good night.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

So you are saying we have to vote on each and every law as a country.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
PRISM Program: Obama Administration Held 22 Briefings For Congress On Key FISA Law
Obama administration officials held 22 separate briefings or meetings for members of Congress on the law that has been used to justify the National Security Agency's controversial email monitoring program, according to data provided by a senior administration official.
According to the official, the sessions that took place over the course of 14 months starting in October 2011 touched on Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) Amendments Act, which gives the attorney general and director of national intelligence the authority to gather intelligence on non-U.S. citizens for up to one year. Section 702 has been cited by Director of National Intelligence James Clapper as the legal basis for the NSA's PRISM program, which has allowed the government to track email communication data.
The Guardian and The Washington Post revealed the existence of the PRISM program and another data-monitoring action last week. In defending PRISM from criticism, Clapper stated that U.S. citizens were not, and are not, targeted for the data dragnet. He and others have also insisted that Congress has had ample opportunity to review the program and provide feedback.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/10/prism-program-obama_n_3416973.html

This isn't what's before us, though. Great argument, but it doesn't apply.

Ummm....yes it is.

quote:

The National Security Agency has obtained direct access to the systems of Google, Facebook, Apple and other US internet giants, according to a top secret document obtained by the Guardian.

The NSA access is part of a previously undisclosed program called PRISM, which allows officials to collect material including search history, the content of emails, file transfers and live chats, the document says.
The Guardian has verified the authenticity of the document, a 41-slide PowerPoint presentation – classified as top secret with no distribution to foreign allies – which was apparently used to train intelligence operatives on the capabilities of the program. The document claims "collection directly from the servers" of major US service providers.
Although the presentation claims the program is run with the assistance of the companies, all those who responded to a Guardian request for comment on Thursday denied knowledge of any such program.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
PRISM Program: Obama Administration Held 22 Briefings For Congress On Key FISA Law
Obama administration officials held 22 separate briefings or meetings for members of Congress on the law that has been used to justify the National Security Agency's controversial email monitoring program, according to data provided by a senior administration official.
According to the official, the sessions that took place over the course of 14 months starting in October 2011 touched on Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) Amendments Act, which gives the attorney general and director of national intelligence the authority to gather intelligence on non-U.S. citizens for up to one year. Section 702 has been cited by Director of National Intelligence James Clapper as the legal basis for the NSA's PRISM program, which has allowed the government to track email communication data.
The Guardian and The Washington Post revealed the existence of the PRISM program and another data-monitoring action last week. In defending PRISM from criticism, Clapper stated that U.S. citizens were not, and are not, targeted for the data dragnet. He and others have also insisted that Congress has had ample opportunity to review the program and provide feedback.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/10/prism-program-obama_n_3416973.html

This isn't what's before us, though. Great argument, but it doesn't apply.

Ummm....yes it is.

According to Tazzy's OP of a thread specifically about PRISM:

quote:

The National Security Agency has obtained direct access to the systems of Google, Facebook, Apple and other US internet giants, according to a top secret document obtained by the Guardian.

The NSA access is part of a previously undisclosed program called PRISM, which allows officials to collect material including search history, the content of emails, file transfers and live chats, the document says.
The Guardian has verified the authenticity of the document, a 41-slide PowerPoint presentation – classified as top secret with no distribution to foreign allies – which was apparently used to train intelligence operatives on the capabilities of the program. The document claims "collection directly from the servers" of major US service providers.
Although the presentation claims the program is run with the assistance of the companies, all those who responded to a Guardian request for comment on Thursday denied knowledge of any such program.

I don't know how you get that this is gathering intel on "non-US citizens," which is what is allowed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
http://openmedia.ca/secretspying?utm_source=130611eblast&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=secretspying

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Its late and Im tired. Just post your response and I will pick this back up in the morning. Im sure by then you can show me the links to all the states and when they required a referendum for ratification of constitutions. [;)]

Good night.

and if you are going to start shitting on the discussion and changing the context of what is being discussed to ratification I am done. Either you keep it within my claim or talk to the fucking hand.

quote:

Show me where a government created by the consent of the people for ourselves can be created without a vote or some paper trail demonstrating said consent.
Otherwise its an unconscionable contract unless you think you can "lawfully" create a government for everyone and shove it up their asses.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Its late and Im tired. Just post your response and I will pick this back up in the morning. Im sure by then you can show me the links to all the states and when they required a referendum for ratification of constitutions. [;)]

Good night.

and if you are going to start shitting on the discussion and changing the context of what is being discussed to ratification I am done. Either you keep it within my claim or talk to the fucking hand.

Ah, but I didnt. I asked you, per your argument, just where it was written that referendums were needed.

quote:

Show me where a government created by the consent of the people for ourselves can be created without a vote or some paper trail demonstrating said consent.
Otherwise its an unconscionable contract unless you think you can "lawfully" create a government for everyone and shove it up their asses.

So now you have changed the context. Who did choose the Founding Fathers?

quote:

first off there is no such thing as "founding fathers", there are british esquires acting as constitutors.

on behalf of whom? you tell.


its due process under the common law. no formal written rules needed. that is why the common law is often referred to as the unwritten law.

However if you want to make a contract and bind someone else there damn well better be paper trail.

You are dancing and providing no paper trail, though I wish you would so my faith would be at least a little repaired.