RE: Transparency?

RE: Transparency? (Full Version)

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JeffBC -> RE: Transparency? (6/11/2013 10:42:54 PM)
I agree tazzy. His opinion and mine may come to the same words but it's not really the same thought. When I say "not legitimate" I mean it personally... as in... does not and never could represent anything resembling my interests. That makes them tyrants over me but not anyone else. In my own personal reading I deem them to have violated the constitution at it's most basic levels and therefor I no longer think we have an agreement for governance. I no longer consent. Rather than whine about that, my solution was to move to another country (who, as it turns out, is ALSO spying on it's citizens secretly).

tazzygirl -> RE: Transparency? (6/11/2013 11:31:55 PM)
quote: Rather than whine about that, my solution was to move to another country (who, as it turns out, is ALSO spying on it's citizens secretly). I saw that. Which makes me wonder if there are any countries who do not.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Transparency? (6/12/2013 2:18:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen There are two possibilities, first that the NSA gathers all that data indiscriminately. Even if you used software to look for specific keywords it would still be an insurmountable problem there is just too much activity to deal with. (google reports that in 2011 there were 1.7 trillion searches). Second they target specific people or specific sorts of interactions, ip addresses are location specific so it would be fairly easy to monitor emails, chats etc. between people in the US and abroad. This is both feasible and legal. I'm quite willing to bet it's not the second one. And, the first, is not legal according, according to what has been posted. The forced metadata dump against Verizon is certainly not pertaining to non-US citizens. Thank you for your support, Ken. [:D] How do you know how the metadata is used? All the NSA gets is number called and length of call. What use is that if they're not either monitoring specific numbers, by getting a FISA warrant, or trying to identify potential terrorists by detecting them calling phones in suspect areas. For instance if someone in the US makes a number of calls to several prepaid cells in Yemen might that not be cause to investigate? FISC made it so they get all the info. Now, how is that not collecting info on citizens?

DomKen -> RE: Transparency? (6/12/2013 2:56:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen There are two possibilities, first that the NSA gathers all that data indiscriminately. Even if you used software to look for specific keywords it would still be an insurmountable problem there is just too much activity to deal with. (google reports that in 2011 there were 1.7 trillion searches). Second they target specific people or specific sorts of interactions, ip addresses are location specific so it would be fairly easy to monitor emails, chats etc. between people in the US and abroad. This is both feasible and legal. I'm quite willing to bet it's not the second one. And, the first, is not legal according, according to what has been posted. The forced metadata dump against Verizon is certainly not pertaining to non-US citizens. Thank you for your support, Ken. [:D] How do you know how the metadata is used? All the NSA gets is number called and length of call. What use is that if they're not either monitoring specific numbers, by getting a FISA warrant, or trying to identify potential terrorists by detecting them calling phones in suspect areas. For instance if someone in the US makes a number of calls to several prepaid cells in Yemen might that not be cause to investigate? FISC made it so they get all the info. Now, how is that not collecting info on citizens? I think the argument is that they get all the data and then screen it for what they're looking for. Keep in mind that to do more than simply having the metadata on your phone calls they need a warrant, issued by the FISA judges.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Transparency? (6/12/2013 9:22:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri FISC made it so they get all the info. Now, how is that not collecting info on citizens? Come on, DS, you should be able to answer your own question. It's because we should trust the government. The government is our friend and benefactor. The government would never lie to us so, if they say they're not invading our privacy, we can believe them. ... Or they're full of shit and we really are getting close to a revolution. Peace and comfort, Michael

Owner59 -> RE: Transparency? (6/12/2013 9:30:49 AM)
Yet the cons were busting the President`s balls for not preventing the Boston bombing......? Bunch of POS cowards......

Real0ne -> RE: Transparency? (6/12/2013 10:00:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Lets say, for the sake or argument, that R0 is right (I dont believe he is.. but lets just go with it for a moment). Whats going to happen? Do we invalidate over 200 years worth of history? Its like Obama. If its discovered that he truly was not born in the US, how do you delete the actions of his administration? Its simply not possible. Why even dig into it at this point? We could throw Obama out of office, but then does Biden become President? After all, he ran on an invalid ticket. Do we toss out the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights? Close up government, send everyone home for the weekend? Then what? Even if the Founding Father's perpetuated a hoax.... "what you gonna do bout it?" you need to intimately understand what contrives jurisdiction. he is right LOL they were not authorized to create the constitution, only modify the AOC. I posted that numerous times. anytime you enter in to ANY contract you acquiesce some right presumably in exchange for some other. everything is governed by quid pro quo you dont delete you correct. the DOI made you sovereign, the constitution took it away, (if you believe it grants another legitimate power over you), and "something" made the state sovereign, hence you are no longer on equal footing with the state. sure its what they did, but more so how the people who passed the information down presented it to you.

Real0ne -> RE: Transparency? (6/12/2013 10:06:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen There are two possibilities, first that the NSA gathers all that data indiscriminately. Even if you used software to look for specific keywords it would still be an insurmountable problem there is just too much activity to deal with. (google reports that in 2011 there were 1.7 trillion searches). Second they target specific people or specific sorts of interactions, ip addresses are location specific so it would be fairly easy to monitor emails, chats etc. between people in the US and abroad. This is both feasible and legal. I'm quite willing to bet it's not the second one. And, the first, is not legal according, according to what has been posted. The forced metadata dump against Verizon is certainly not pertaining to non-US citizens. Thank you for your support, Ken. [:D] How do you know how the metadata is used? All the NSA gets is number called and length of call. What use is that if they're not either monitoring specific numbers, by getting a FISA warrant, or trying to identify potential terrorists by detecting them calling phones in suspect areas. For instance if someone in the US makes a number of calls to several prepaid cells in Yemen might that not be cause to investigate? FISC made it so they get all the info. Now, how is that not collecting info on citizens? I think the argument is that they get all the data and then screen it for what they're looking for. Keep in mind that to do more than simply having the metadata on your phone calls they need a warrant, issued by the FISA judges. its an unauthorized conveyance of "things" (things are property, your business, your affairs, who you call, where you go is part of the property of the person) from one party to another, that is a trespass unless verizon can show you signed a document stating the can do such things.

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