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Purely hypothetical... - 6/24/2013 10:40:04 PM   
MistressRosalyn


Posts: 908
Joined: 8/16/2009
Status: offline 		Ok, I know that everyone will want to voice their opinion here, whether they are a Mistress or not, which is fine. So here is a purely hypothetical question. We all know how the average CM person feels about cheating...so we needn't go into that or beat that dead horse.
However, is it cheating if your wife knows about your kink and has given you permission?
Is it cheating if someone submits with to a Master or Mistress with no sex being involved? For example, some subs just want to serve, but not sexually. Chastity devices and cucks come to mind.
In short, is there ever a circumstance in which a married sub can serve someone other than his wife, and not be viewed as a cheater?
Let the games begin!

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RE: Purely hypothetical... - 6/24/2013 11:10:58 PM   
SoulAlloy


Posts: 2106
Joined: 8/23/2009
From: Preston, UK
Status: offline 		I'm with the party that says as long as everybody knows it's fine.

Even serving without sex has an emotional closeness that to me would be like hiding a best friend from my partner.

Having been on the end that was cheated on my view may be somewhat biased.

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RE: Purely hypothetical... - 6/24/2013 11:11:13 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

However, is it cheating if your wife knows about your kink and has given you permission?


Not in my opinion. Consent, even from a vanilla partner, means everything.

quote:

Is it cheating if someone submits with to a Master or Mistress with no sex being involved? For example, some subs just want to serve, but not sexually. Chastity devices and cucks come to mind.


Sticky area. That would all depend on how the partner would feel about the situation. I have a feeling the chastity device would be quickly noticed, and questioned. Could bring up all sorts of issues, like someone else controlling the sexuality within the marriage, which, to me, would be a form of cheating. And some wives ( I am going with the male sub theme here) may just find it cheating if the man is off taking care of another woman instead of spending that time on her or the family.

quote:

In short, is there ever a circumstance in which a married sub can serve someone other than his wife, and not be viewed as a cheater?


Sure, he explains he will be doing things for another woman, not sexual things, but chores, errands, ect, and take any fall out that may come. Alienation of affection may not be enforceable in courts much anymore, but its still a form of cheating, even if those affections are not sexual.

Again, this is simply my opinion.



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RE: Purely hypothetical... - 6/24/2013 11:12:40 PM   
littleclip


Posts: 869
Joined: 5/31/2012
Status: offline 		yes i have with my past Dom and with my current Dom serve and my wife has met both and given permision. and i have met others whos kink does not involve sex just service. myself i am service oriented and the part that feeds my submission is the gratitude and casual skin contact

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RE: Purely hypothetical... - 6/24/2013 11:34:13 PM   
MistressRosalyn


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Joined: 8/16/2009
Status: offline 		Ok, let's say the spouse is totally asexual...at least as far as with her hubby. Who knows, since this is hypothetical, she could be getting fucked senseless by the pool boy, yet doesn't want to end the marriage for whatever reason. For the sake of this example, though, she is turning a total blind eye to her hubby'a exploits.

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RE: Purely hypothetical... - 6/24/2013 11:46:02 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

Ok, let's say the spouse is totally asexual...at least as far as with her hubby. Who knows, since this is hypothetical, she could be getting fucked senseless by the pool boy, yet doesn't want to end the marriage for whatever reason. For the sake of this example, though, she is turning a total blind eye to her hubby'a exploits.


I dont do non-consent, nor do I condone it. I also believe that if she doesnt care, he has no reason not to tell her. Couple that with the fact that he is submissive.... would a Domme condone him lying about his relationship to the one person he took a legal vow with?

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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RE: Purely hypothetical... - 6/25/2013 12:05:44 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressRosalyn
However, is it cheating if your wife knows about your kink and has given you permission?

Personally, I see poly (meaning polyamory, which translates to multiple relationships where everybody is aware that there are multiple partners) as a whole different ballgame than cheating. I would highly suggest that you talk to the wife to ensure this is the case. The minute a person won't let you talk to the spouse, I become suspicious. Some people have "don't ask/don't tell" agreements between themselves, but the minute somebody can't put the other on the phone to verify that they know about the time their spouse is spending with you, the gifts they send you, or what they are telling you, I'm more likely to say something fishy is going on.


quote:

Is it cheating if someone submits with to a Master or Mistress with no sex being involved? For example, some subs just want to serve, but not sexually. Chastity devices and cucks come to mind.

Here's My personal golden rule. If the spouse thinks it's cheating, it's cheating. Doesn't matter if it's cyber sex, S/m, time, emotional attachment, or anything else. In My personal opinion only, unless the chastity device is only going to be worn during physical time spent with you, putting a male in a device while he is with the wife is unfair to her if they have any kind of sex life at all. A cuck situation, I would probably rely on My golden rule. Even if he's not getting sexual contact, if she doesn't want him involved in any capacity of sexual scenes, that may not be cool with her, either.

quote:

In short, is there ever a circumstance in which a married sub can serve someone other than his wife, and not be viewed as a cheater?
Let the games begin!

Yes. It's commonly known as ethical poly. Some people practice it. Other people don't. We do have a board here called "Polyamorus Lifestyles" where there are a number of folks who have contributed on that topic and a search for the term will bring you a wealth of information. You're going to find that honesty in a person's endeavors is going to matter a great deal.




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RE: Purely hypothetical... - 6/25/2013 12:20:52 AM   
BambiBoi


Posts: 461
Joined: 8/10/2010
Status: offline 		I use a simple rule: Are you hiding it from your partner because you know they would consider it cheating/be pissed? Yes -> Cheating.

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RE: Purely hypothetical... - 6/25/2013 1:43:36 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BambiBoi

I use a simple rule: Are you hiding it from your partner because you know they would consider it cheating/be pissed? Yes -> Cheating.


Pretty much this. Cheating, to me, suggests dishonesty, sneaking around, hiding things that you know would hurt your partner.

Hypothetical situation 1: woman says 'I am fine with you seeing a dominant'. Man goes to see a dominant - not cheating. No lying, sneaking, hurting.
Hypothetical situation 2: woman says 'I am find with you seeing a dominant but no fucking'. Man goes to see a dominant but fucks her - cheating. He knew it would upset her and did it anyway behind her back.
Hypothetical situation 3: Man goes out and forms a relationship (sexual or not) with a dominant and hides that from his wife - cheating. Trust is broken here. If she really didn't care, he'd have no reason to sneak around.

While submission may not be sexual for everyone, it is tied in to sexuality for a lot of people. It also involves deep emotional connections in many cases. Even if penises remain in pants and vaginas remain unpenetrated, it can often be sexual on some level. There's a good chance the spouse would feel cheated on either way. If hypothetical person wasn't guilty they wouldn't be behaving in a guilty way and being secretive. There's a big difference between 'no dear I don't mind if you see your mistress this weekend, but I don't want to hear the details of your session' and pretending not to notice that your partner is working late all the time and coming home smelling of someone else's perfume. 'Turning a blind eye' suggests something bad is happening.

Edit to add: It should go without saying, but of course I feel the same about cheating regardless of the gender of each participant. Women cheat on men, men cheat on men, etc etc.

< Message edited by AthenaSurrenders -- 6/25/2013 1:45:42 AM >

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RE: Purely hypothetical... - 6/25/2013 1:46:31 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		I'm going to keep it simple and say that each couple/relationship partners has/ve to determine that for themselves.

I'm a bit of an oddity. I'm polyamorous. My lady can have sex with others but she cannot submit to anyone else nor engage in BDSM play with anyone else (yes, there's a difference to me).

Well, honestly, if she wants to submit to someone else, she's no longer mine, anyway and that changes the whole relationship to "the occasional Christmas card".



Peace and comfort,



Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 6/25/2013 1:54:36 AM >

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RE: Purely hypothetical... - 6/25/2013 2:34:15 AM   
FrostedFlake


Posts: 3084
Joined: 3/4/2009
From: Centralia, Washington
Status: offline
quote:

In short, is there ever a circumstance in which a married sub can serve someone other than his wife, and not be viewed as a cheater?


Hypothetically, sure. Realistically, there is such a thing as cheating oneself.

The question supposes a poly type relationship. Open, at least. Else, why would drearily beloved say Okay? If it ain't poly, then one of the girls gots to go. If drearily beloved isn't up to it and hotchik is AND there is no divorce, then drearily beloved is an inconvenient woman. In the way. Dick is cheating himself, because he's married to someone he has no relationship with. And he is cheating himself again, because he is paying for what the inconvenient woman doesn't want to do. You gotta be pretty wealthy for that to not matter.

To clarify, let's change something. Somewhere along the line hypothetical fellow meets someone he CAN have the relationship he wants with. But Dick is married. To someone as interesting as a can of spam. NOW what's he gonna do? Wife says it's Okay to drop $250 on a good asskicking, because she doesn't want to do it more than she wants $250, or $500, or $1000 a month. But no one asked her about bimbo #3. So. Now Dick can (presumably) support a wife and a pro while not getting the real deal. Or he can switch things around, dump the pro, use her $$ toward alimony, and hook up with the gal that likes the same stuff he does. I think this sort of situation might be exactly why most women take a dim view of their guy, or their gal, looking at another woman. And being a pro doesn't help. If he does what he wants he cheats his wife, if he does what she wants, he cheats himself. Anyone care to lay odds on what happens next?

In my view, the Hokey-pokey isn't what it's all about.

< Message edited by FrostedFlake -- 6/25/2013 2:45:25 AM >

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RE: Purely hypothetical... - 6/25/2013 4:30:07 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		Let me first give a direct answer, then I'll expand on your question a bit.

The quick and easy answer is that as long as she knows and consents to any activity with another, it's not cheating. If she doesn't know or doesn't consent, it is.

That said.... let's hypothesize a man who is in a vanilla marriage and feels a need to serve. He scratches his itch by being extra attentive to a woman at his work. He gets her coffee and little gifts occasionally. At what point does his activity cross the line between innocence and become cheating?

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RE: Purely hypothetical... - 6/25/2013 6:24:25 AM   
LittleGirlHeart


Posts: 1427
Joined: 4/4/2013
Status: offline 		I belive anything that your SO does not know about, or does know about but you go beyond negotiated boundaries is cheating.
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressRosalyn

However, is it cheating if your wife knows about your kink and has given you permission?
Is it cheating if someone submits with to a Master or Mistress with no sex being involved? For example, some subs just want to serve, but not sexually. Chastity devices and cucks come to mind.
In short, is there ever a circumstance in which a married sub can serve someone other than his wife, and not be viewed as a cheater?
Let the games begin![/size]


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RE: Purely hypothetical... - 6/25/2013 7:36:50 AM   
searching4mysir


Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressRosalyn

Ok, let's say the spouse is totally asexual...at least as far as with her hubby. Who knows, since this is hypothetical, she could be getting fucked senseless by the pool boy, yet doesn't want to end the marriage for whatever reason. For the sake of this example, though, she is turning a total blind eye to her hubby'a exploits.



Depends. Is the spouse "consenting" because they feel they don't have a choice? If so, then it really isn't consent (it's coerced) and still cheating. If the spouse not only knows but is completely on board with no coercion, then not cheating.

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RE: Purely hypothetical... - 6/25/2013 7:50:30 AM   
Rawni


Posts: 1175
Status: offline 		Let the games begin?

Let's see, you have seen all over the forum recently and not so recently, exactly how people think or feel about this. What is the real question and why are you asking?

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RE: Purely hypothetical... - 6/25/2013 8:33:02 AM   
evesgrden


Posts: 597
Joined: 6/9/2012
Status: offline 		Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive! (Sir Walter Scott)

It's all about deception. You can deceive through acts of commission or omission. If you are hiding behaviors or feelings from your spouse with respect to your extracurricular activities, you're being deceitful.

There are 3 ways to lie (and probably more)
1. Say something that's not true.
2. Tell part of the truth and then stop.
3. Tell the truth so unconvincingly that no one believes you.

In each case, you're out to deceive. You can claim innocence for the latter two, but it's deceit nonetheless and that's a dealkiller in relationships. Once trust is gone, how can you enjoy so much as a conversation? I had to let someone go after 5 years for being deceitful.. and it wasn't about fidelity, no adultery, it wasn't about intimacy, or screwing around or emotional entanglements elsewhere. But I simply had to release him because I couldn't enjoy his company anymore because I questioned everything that came out of his mouth. Hardly makes for good company so compatibility goes out the window. No amount of chemistry, "skills", service, or what have you can overcome that in my world.

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RE: Purely hypothetical... - 6/25/2013 11:55:47 AM   
MistressRosalyn


Posts: 908
Joined: 8/16/2009
Status: offline 		Rawni, (sorry, in my mind you are still lockit, but I haven't been on here for a while) I love to see what answers people on here give. Especially when they look at a facet that I have never considered before. I know that the people on this forum will help me see things in a clearer light. Often my thoughts are triggered by letters I receive, or situations I have been through. For the record, this situation is truly hypothetical, triggered by a letter, and a friend's circumstances.
I thank everyone for taking their valuable time to consider the issue, and respond, and I welcome more insight. This will certainly help with the situation my friend finds himself in currently. And no, he really is just a friend, no sexual entanglements involved.


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RE: Purely hypothetical... - 6/25/2013 12:06:57 PM   
Rawni


Posts: 1175
Status: offline 		LOL I figured there had to be more to this. I've been known to bring something to the table/forum in similar circumstances, for which LadyPact gladly read between the lines and called it well. I think it started with... Let me guess, you got an email and are frustrated.

I hope you find your answers or the answers needed for your friend. I am just hoping that this thread doesn't turn out like some of the others recently! God, this place can be scary sometimes! Then I even scare myself... I'm just a big ol scardy cat.

The way I figure it, any time you have to try to look for a loop hole... things aren't going well. Back track.

PS... I will answer to Rawni or Lockit. It's not anyone's fault I went and did a switcheroo. (Gee... how do you spell a made up word? Is it a made up word? Oh god... too many green pills lately. Eekkk. I am totally losing it. I may have to buy a slave to keep watch over me or maybe.. friggin, sleep! )

< Message edited by Rawni -- 6/25/2013 12:16:02 PM >

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RE: Purely hypothetical... - 6/25/2013 2:52:24 PM   
FriendlyMuppet


Posts: 171
Joined: 11/16/2010
From: Corpus Christi, Texas
Status: offline 		I'm from the simple school of believing that everything is okay as long as everyone is aware of everyone else involved. If I was married, I don't see a problem with serving someone else as long as my wife was completely aware this was going on (and was fine with it). At the same time, I doubt I'd ever be married to someone is I wasn't actually involved in a serving relationship to her (just can't see it happening, and if it did, it's because she used some really good knockout pills before dragging me to the wedding).

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RE: Purely hypothetical... - 6/25/2013 3:08:50 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14442
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressRosalyn


However, is it cheating if your wife knows about your kink and has given you permission?
By it's definition, cheating is deception. So, if the wife knows and has given permission, not it is not cheating.


quote:

Is it cheating if someone submits with to a Master or Mistress with no sex being involved? For example, some subs just want to serve, but not sexually. Chastity devices and cucks come to mind.
Ultimately, that line in the sand would be drawn by the spouse. I will say that when it comes to cheating, I would view being emotionally involved and intimate with someone without my knowledge as worse than having sex.





< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 6/25/2013 3:11:17 PM >

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