Collarchat.com

Join Our Community		 Collarchat.com

Home  Login  Search 

RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option Page: <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/7/2013 2:17:01 PM   
BitYakin


Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Bityakin, the mods didn't even bother with a note, the last time I expressed my opinion on your credibility and position regarding the case.

Feel free to waste your time creating replies I'm going to scroll right past, if you like. The characteristics I described were quite evident in the fraction I bothered with.


ummmm, HUH???

why should the mods bother with a note?
I have never claimed you were out of line with your posts ever, and I have never reported any one for anything ever
so I have no idea where that even came from


and of course its certianly your right to ignore anything I say!
doesn't change or affect the validity of anything I say though

you posted regarding the "not guilty" crowd, I reponded with a post comparing the "is guilty" crowd

not sure why you are upset!

< Message edited by BitYakin -- 7/7/2013 2:18:09 PM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/7/2013 2:20:53 PM   
BitYakin


Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

As explained in the source:

"And it is for this last reason that I suspect the George Zimmerman defense team will try to get Trayvon Martin’s digital records in. While Trayvon Martin’s messages about fighting may be hearsay; the knowledge that they bestowed upon the recipient create a non-hearsay reason to admit them. i.e. to show that Trayvon Martin was a seasoned street fighter."


How does that compare the the DOCUMENTED fight training Zimmerman received training 3 days a week at a Mixed Martial Arts gym?



The same gym where the trainer says George was soft, and wasn't ready to be let into the ring?


In a ring where he could take other trained MMA's doesnt mean he wouldnt be dangerous against someone who wasnt trained in the same style of fighting.

Thats like saying a brown belt isnt ready to take a black belt... but damn if that brown belt couldnt hurt someone who never trained at all.


I have to say I kinda thought that myself, saying he is to soft to go into the ring isn't the same as saying he is to soft to WHUP a kid on the street!

on the other hand I am kinda torn on the whole txt message thing.
on one side I see how you could say it doesn't prove he did the thngs he said he did, on the other it kinda does show a state of mind or mentality that he thought he was a bad ass

< Message edited by BitYakin -- 7/7/2013 2:23:44 PM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/7/2013 2:22:12 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ladytisha
I have every right to defend myself from harm. Self Defense

By attacking someone who has not harmed you? How many innocent people have you attacked today?

_____________________________

"I tend to pay attention when Rule speaks" - Aswad

"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to Ladytisha)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/7/2013 2:28:01 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

As explained in the source:

"And it is for this last reason that I suspect the George Zimmerman defense team will try to get Trayvon Martin’s digital records in. While Trayvon Martin’s messages about fighting may be hearsay; the knowledge that they bestowed upon the recipient create a non-hearsay reason to admit them. i.e. to show that Trayvon Martin was a seasoned street fighter."


How does that compare the the DOCUMENTED fight training Zimmerman received training 3 days a week at a Mixed Martial Arts gym?



The same gym where the trainer says George was soft, and wasn't ready to be let into the ring?


In a ring where he could take other trained MMA's doesnt mean he wouldnt be dangerous against someone who wasnt trained in the same style of fighting.

Thats like saying a brown belt isnt ready to take a black belt... but damn if that brown belt couldnt hurt someone who never trained at all.


I have to say I kinda thought that myself, saying he is to soft to go into the ring isn't the same as saying he is to soft to WHUP a kid on the street!

on the other hand I am kinda torn on the whole txt message thing.
on one side I see how you could say it doesn't prove he did the thngs he said he did, on the other it kinda does show a state of mind or mentality that he thought he was a bad ass


Trouble is, that is pure speculation... No evidence was offered by the state to show George was capable of beating anyone in a fight.

(in reply to BitYakin)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/7/2013 2:34:27 PM   
BitYakin


Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Trouble is, that is pure speculation... No evidence was offered by the state to show George was capable of beating anyone in a fight.


I don't knowww, I think someone who has taken any class on any subject has at least SOME advantage over some one who has had zero training in that area

not like I think it means Z is guilty by a long shot, but I do think ANY training is an advantage over an untrained person...

not a guarentee of victory, but certianly an advantage, even if only slight!

< Message edited by BitYakin -- 7/7/2013 2:35:43 PM >

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/7/2013 2:35:10 PM   
PressPlay


Posts: 15
Joined: 3/3/2013
Status: offline 		Manslaughter?? I don't believe it's anyone's intent to only wound when using a gun. No, the jury should not have a manslaughter option and 2nd degree is not enough. Had he stayed in his warm, dry vehicle, as the 911 operator instructed, I don't think Trayvon would be dead, but who knows that for absolute certain. I've done marijuana and the most aggressive I've gotten was working hard to get into the Doritos bag.

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/7/2013 2:42:44 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		lol... Those Doritos bags do put up quite a fight!

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to PressPlay)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/7/2013 2:44:08 PM   
BitYakin


Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PressPlay

Manslaughter?? I don't believe it's anyone's intent to only wound when using a gun. No, the jury should not have a manslaughter option and 2nd degree is not enough. Had he stayed in his warm, dry vehicle, as the 911 operator instructed, I don't think Trayvon would be dead, but who knows that for absolute certain. I've done marijuana and the most aggressive I've gotten was working hard to get into the Doritos bag.


while I agree on the "intent" as you stated, to say 2nd degree is not enough is just WAYYY over the top, only thing above 2nd degree is 1st degree which would mean you beleive Z PLANNED this! that before M confronted him Z had already decided he was going to KILL M

and BTW the 911 op did not instruct him to stay in the car, she asked if he was following him and told him he didn't need to AFTER he was already out of the car...

and I am going to leave that whole you smoke pot thing alone!!!!!
heheheh

(in reply to PressPlay)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/7/2013 2:52:14 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

Trouble is, that is pure speculation... No evidence was offered by the state to show George was capable of beating anyone in a fight.


I don't knowww, I think someone who has taken any class on any subject has at least SOME advantage over some one who has had zero training in that area

not like I think it means Z is guilty by a long shot, but I do think ANY training is an advantage over an untrained person...

not a guarentee of victory, but certianly an advantage, even if only slight!


The person with actual fighting experience has the advantage over someone never in a fight doing aerobics IMO.

(in reply to BitYakin)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/7/2013 2:55:36 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

Trouble is, that is pure speculation... No evidence was offered by the state to show George was capable of beating anyone in a fight.


I don't knowww, I think someone who has taken any class on any subject has at least SOME advantage over some one who has had zero training in that area

not like I think it means Z is guilty by a long shot, but I do think ANY training is an advantage over an untrained person...

not a guarentee of victory, but certianly an advantage, even if only slight!


The person with actual fighting experience has the advantage over someone never in a fight doing aerobics IMO.

And you have yet to show that Martins "fighting experience" was anything more than adolescent posturing via electronic media...............much like you are doing now.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/7/2013 2:59:18 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
that sounds like we can't prove anything but let's convict him anyway.



I disagree. 2nd degree murder was an over the top charge for this case to begin with.

What I find lacking, again and again, among the "Zimmerman did nothing wrong" crowd, is any empathy whatsoever for the victim, and the circumstances he found himself in, prior to jumping the creepy ass cracker who was stalking him. There doesn't seem to be any comprehension that this young man had every right to wander around, and take his time getting back from the store, and that in a "stand your ground" culture he should not have been expected to just run home when some pervert kept staring at him.

We will hear that Zimmerman was neighborhood watch, to justify the stalking, but few acknowledgements that neighborhood watch are not supposed to be armed in the first place.

I don't think either of the players that night were perfect little angels, or despicable demons. Bad shit happened that night, and bad choices Zimmerman made led to it.

Manslaughter/negligent homicide seems to me to most appropriate charge in the case, and I think that option should be there for the jury.

Not speaking for anyone else but I stated repeatedly over a year ago that I think Zimmerman has a clear cut self defense. I also stated repeatedly that had the police arrived a couple minutes earlier and arrested Martin I would support his claim of self defense. He, thinking Zimmerman was going for a weapon attacked when Zimmerman reached for his cell phone.
This justifies self defense on his part. Since Zimmerman was not reaching for a weapon this does negate his right to self defense. Only lynch Zimmerman people argued against this somehow claiming that reaching for your cell phone did in fact negate that right.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/7/2013 3:01:13 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		I don't think either of the players that night were perfect little angels, or despicable demons. Bad shit happened that night, and bad choices Zimmerman made led to it.

The final and most important bad choice was for Martin to resort to violence.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/7/2013 3:02:18 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

Trouble is, that is pure speculation... No evidence was offered by the state to show George was capable of beating anyone in a fight.


I don't knowww, I think someone who has taken any class on any subject has at least SOME advantage over some one who has had zero training in that area

not like I think it means Z is guilty by a long shot, but I do think ANY training is an advantage over an untrained person...

not a guarentee of victory, but certianly an advantage, even if only slight!


The person with actual fighting experience has the advantage over someone never in a fight doing aerobics IMO.

And you have yet to show that Martins "fighting experience" was anything more than adolescent posturing via electronic media...............much like you are doing now.


He was suspended from school for fighting...that is more than mere posturing. He's also on video referring one of the fights, and in texts talks about the rounds he lost.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/7/2013 3:08:27 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

He was suspended from school for fighting...that is more than mere posturing. He's also on video referring one of the fights, and in texts talks about the rounds he lost.


Hell, I was suspended for fighting.. and I didnt start it.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/7/2013 3:08:31 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

As explained in the source:

"And it is for this last reason that I suspect the George Zimmerman defense team will try to get Trayvon Martin’s digital records in. While Trayvon Martin’s messages about fighting may be hearsay; the knowledge that they bestowed upon the recipient create a non-hearsay reason to admit them. i.e. to show that Trayvon Martin was a seasoned street fighter."


How does that compare the the DOCUMENTED fight training Zimmerman received training 3 days a week at a Mixed Martial Arts gym?

And his trainer wouldn't let him do any actual fighting yet cause he wasn't ready.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/7/2013 3:10:27 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


. He's also on video referring one of the fights, and in texts talks about the rounds he lost.


My point exactly.

To be admissible in court, evidence of violence has to be verified, not this made up shit so many are posting.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/7/2013 3:11:19 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		Thats like saying a brown belt isnt ready to take a black belt... but damn if that brown belt couldnt hurt someone who never trained at all.


No it's like saying this guy isn't ready to take on the white belts cause they will take him apart.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/7/2013 3:14:34 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		The person with actual fighting experience has the advantage over someone never in a fight doing aerobics IMO.


That is an obvious truth

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/7/2013 3:14:35 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


. He's also on video referring one of the fights, and in texts talks about the rounds he lost.


My point exactly.

To be admissible in court, evidence of violence has to be verified, not this made up shit so many are posting.


Admissions of fighting, is evidence of fighting.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/7/2013 3:16:44 PM   
PressPlay


Posts: 15
Joined: 3/3/2013
Status: offline 		I too don't think either of them angels, but I will not confront a stranger on the street if I don't think I have an advantage over them. Having his gun with him was the advantage and he alone knew he had it until he pulled it. For some reason he allowed Trayvon to get close enough to him to get him to the ground, pin him and bang his head on the sidewalk and managed not to become at least light headed during this struggle. I get it, adrenaline kicked in and caused him to throw Martin off, clear his head, pull the gun, remove the safety, put a bullet in the chamber, and then the trigger. I can see all of that happening in an instant.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 80
Page:   <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option Page: <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2024
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.121