quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha


For many people, they may be painfully unaware that they could improve their skills. As I mentioned, some submissive (or bottoms, if that's your fancy) think being passive or waiting for blatant demands/commands is the entire process. My point is that this is not true. If anything, they kind of have to be empaths, or highly perceptive. They have to be sort of the most in-tuned kind of lover or sensualist. Because they are often very skilled lovers/sensualists while being totally incapacitated.

Akasha

To AGAIN to restate the obvious. It takes 2 to play. So more than likely if the player is is not enjoing the action the playee is thinking my god this person is really lousy at "whatever".

So of course what does a good top do.... Blame the sub. Defer responsibility. That always seems to be the proper course of action. Instead of talking it through like most adults do.

Oh I get it you have this one true way as to how a sub should act. Let me know how that works for you?

BadOne

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I'm me.

I don't bring anything special to the plate. He either likes me for who I am or he doesn't.

It was simple for me. I found a man who had a personality I enjoyed and vice versa which made us attracted to each other.

This has nada to do with bdsm and just a normal, human thing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I'm me.

I don't bring anything special to the plate. He either likes me for who I am or he doesn't.

It was simple for me. I found a man who had a personality I enjoyed and vice versa which made us attracted to each other.

This has nada to do with bdsm and just a normal, human thing.

Word!

It always amazes me that some ppl think somehow by adding BDSM to your resume changes how a relationship works. The ONLY difference is in the "playtime".

BadOne

This thread is about - for lack of a better word - sexual (or sensual) prowess. In other words, no matter how compatible you are, if you are shitty in bed (or in the dungeon) together, your relationship STILL may be doomed. How can you be a good BDSM partner? How can you connect on a sensual/sexual and power exchange level? How can you be a good bottom?

Did you read the posts in the thread? It's not about relationship dynamics, it's about bottoming dynamics.

Akasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

FR:

I probably chose a bad title thread because the entire conversation did end up turning into more about relationship dynamics instead of "bottoming" qualities. I was trying to get more back into kink...I feel like a lot of the times here on CM people (well, subs) are afraid to talk about what is hot and slutty and sexy about being a bottom for fear of being labeled a do-me, or thinking with their dick.

I like S&M. I like bondage, and strap ons, and lust, and I'm a sadist. I actually need partners that are GOOD "in bondage" just like a woman needs partners who are "good in bed," and this thread was about "how can you be good (in bondage" just like Cosmo writes lame articles about "how can you be good (in bed)!". Because some men think being good (in bondage) or being good (in submission) just means -- well, you submit! And it's not that. Nope. Not at all. That's only the start, really!

In fact, the worst kind of bottom is the one that "just submits." The one that says, "I'm a great sub because I obey!" Ugh. BoRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRing! There's nothing dynamic in being absolutely predictable. And at the other end of the spectrum is the opposite kind of horrible, "I'm a great sub because I am bratty and a HUGE CHALLENGE!" Oh god, NIGHTMARE!

What a great bottom is..well, that's the topic of this thread. It depends on the dominant and what she enjoys. So the best quality in a man? His ability to be perceptive and sensual. Guess what? Same qualities that it takes to be a great lover. But some sub men think that being submissive means getting a bit of a free pass in that they can be a bit passive in the sensual department - because, after all, they are probably rendered helpless, right? Or having things "done" to them. It's not as if they are really able to "do" anything -- right?

Nothing could be further from the truth. In reality they have to be totally helpless AND rock the world of their dominant partner - who is a sadist, a sensualist, and needs all of her buttons pushed....it's a tough job. This is why I worship and adore any man who can make me melt with his vulnerability and never, ever, ever let him go.

Akasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha


When talking to potential partners through the years and asking about their qualities, potential subs often say things like, "I love to serve," and "I am obedient and loyal." These are fairly standard. I like to have men really think about what they can say that makes them different. But these are "submissive" qualities - and often these are even "vanilla" qualities, too, if you think about it.

What makes a "bottom" a great partner though? I can think about partners who absolutely BLEW MY MIND when I dominated physically - through bondage, making the endure pain, strap on play, mindfucks, breath play, or whatever my sadistic, sensual mind was urging me to do. I can also share what a crappy partner partner did, and I was hoping others could do the same, because I feel like bottoming isn't talked about enough. It's like the red-headed stepchild of BDSM.

What does an awesome submissive bottom do?

* He reacts - intensely, honestly, passionately.
That means eye contact (if he isn't blindfolded). He tries to communicate every available emotion in his scale to my soul with the use of his eyes, often so effectivel y that I have to look away out of discomfort or blindfold him because it gives me chills or makes me ache with lust.

* He uses his mouth
I am orally fixated on a man's mouth. If I am not USING it (lol), he licks his lips (nerves, or bites his lips, thinking, etc) to make me take note of it, he does things to make me look at his mouth - it makes me think of kissing him, or using his mouth in some manner, or gagging him, or ...oh my. Just anything.

* He moves his body in subtle, suggestive ways
A bottom knows I am hyper aware of his body movements, especially hips, wrists, ankles. He struggles against restraints, but in a seductive way (no lame thrashing, unless it's just the right time, and timing is everything), he uses very understated tugs here and there, he rotates a hip, he curls a toe, he makes a fist, he outstretches a finger to try to touch my hand

* He breathes - just right
Breathing on its own is a damn fetish of mine. I will put it right out there. So he may just hold it for a second, or let it out at the right time, or change tempo, or manipulate it to give a clue to his real or manufactured level of fear, and I am caught in HIS web for a moment. His breathing when we are kissing or when I'm allowing him to speak is critical.

* Whimpering done right
I absolutely detest whiny crybabies but can be put near orgasm with whimpering - but I'm as easy to read as an open book and I give immediate feedback to a man when I have him beg for something. But I don't like to have to retrain him over and over again regarding how I want him to make soft, subtle sounds to indicate his suffering. Most important, it should not be overused. In fact, NOTHING should be overused....which brings the last and most important point....

* EMPATHY and INTUITION
Above all, knowing how to READ me. How much and when do to all of the above. I have known men that "get it" on a micro level, but then on a macro level, have no clue on how much, or when, or even why. Their timing is bad, their execution is awkward, or they overdo it (whimper constantly to the point that it's annoying after the first 5 minutes, struggle too much, etc). It's just like being a good lover in bed. So this is where it becomes art, really. A submissive and bottom has a HUGE task here - they have to be able to do ALL of these things above while dealing with pain, suffering, their own arousal, and reading me and my body language. That is NOT an easy task. That's why I do say "submitting to me is NOT easy."

What are some things that other dominant women find make a great submissive/bottom?
What are some things that subs/bottoms have found make them very attractive to partners, or have helped them be effective in pleasing their partners?

As always, YMMV!

Akasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren

I think I get what Akasha was driving at, though I don't play with a lot of people, I think what makes for a great partner is that in play, they concentrate for lack of a better description, into the 'flow' of energy between the two people. There isn't any one thing that does this, and what works for one couple might not work for another. Akasha talked about how a bottom/sub whimpering, or reacting, did it for her, or looking at her, or interacting with her actions, for example, and what that does in my experience is it sends something to her, call it energy, call it what you want, and then she 'accepts it', and in turn she radiates back to the sub,both through actions and also in energy, something he/she feeds off of (same thing would apply m to f, m to m, f to m). Others have touched on it, but because my experience for the first x years of my entry into the world of BD/SM was playing with pros, I never understood that, it very much for the most part was getting done to me what I wanted, it was hot and erotic to me, but it wasn't what I would call two way. I did hit that point playing with a pro domme I hit it off with, where it turned more into that circle, I was responding to what she did, but it still was problematic. My Lady told me I was acting like a sponge, I wasn't giving her anything back, and she was right. How that plays out is up to the couple, but when she does something that drives her circuits into overload, so to speak, and I react back, and that energy starts going, it is a holy shit moment, when the two of us get into synch, time goes, and it is just amazing.

I think with a good sub/bottom -top/dominant pairing, the answer is it flows both ways, they feed into one another. There is no one formula that works, it can work with the seemingly sadistic, uncaring, vicious domme and her sub, it can be with two people who are seemingly more 'gentle' with each other who create fireworks......it is when both read the other one, and give into the others needs/ triggers. It doesn't matter IMO whether it is play partners or a couple in a relationship of some sort, though the two will be different in how this plays out, it is very different IME when playing with someone whom you are just a play buddy, and someone where there are other facets, it is different again when the prime relationship is a D/s and this is part of that.....but in the end, though different, what seems to work is when both are attuned to the other and are feeding into each other. I have to say that in watching play sessions that are just that, two people playing who otherwise aren't in a relationship of any sorts, it often seems to me (and this is just my observations), that a lot of the times these are one sided, where the top is getting off but the bottom is not as much or not at all, and vice versa. There is an erotic thrill there from what I can say, it isn't like one is bored chewing gum while the other ones is getting off, but it tends to be a lot more one sided, and I don't see/sense what i do when two people are feeding into each other. I of course have seen people in relationships whose play seemed pretty one side, and two friends who go at it and it is like holy shit, like being near a furnace the energy they put out:)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren

I think I get what Akasha was driving at, though I don't play with a lot of people, I think what makes for a great partner is that in play, they concentrate for lack of a better description, into the 'flow' of energy between the two people. There isn't any one thing that does this, and what works for one couple might not work for another. Akasha talked about how a bottom/sub whimpering, or reacting, did it for her, or looking at her, or interacting with her actions, for example, and what that does in my experience is it sends something to her, call it energy, call it what you want, and then she 'accepts it', and in turn she radiates back to the sub,both through actions and also in energy, something he/she feeds off of (same thing would apply m to f, m to m, f to m). Others have touched on it, but because my experience for the first x years of my entry into the world of BD/SM was playing with pros, I never understood that, it very much for the most part was getting done to me what I wanted, it was hot and erotic to me, but it wasn't what I would call two way. I did hit that point playing with a pro domme I hit it off with, where it turned more into that circle, I was responding to what she did, but it still was problematic. My Lady told me I was acting like a sponge, I wasn't giving her anything back, and she was right. How that plays out is up to the couple, but when she does something that drives her circuits into overload, so to speak, and I react back, and that energy starts going, it is a holy shit moment, when the two of us get into synch, time goes, and it is just amazing.

I think with a good sub/bottom -top/dominant pairing, the answer is it flows both ways, they feed into one another. There is no one formula that works, it can work with the seemingly sadistic, uncaring, vicious domme and her sub, it can be with two people who are seemingly more 'gentle' with each other who create fireworks......it is when both read the other one, and give into the others needs/ triggers. It doesn't matter IMO whether it is play partners or a couple in a relationship of some sort, though the two will be different in how this plays out, it is very different IME when playing with someone whom you are just a play buddy, and someone where there are other facets, it is different again when the prime relationship is a D/s and this is part of that.....but in the end, though different, what seems to work is when both are attuned to the other and are feeding into each other. I have to say that in watching play sessions that are just that, two people playing who otherwise aren't in a relationship of any sorts, it often seems to me (and this is just my observations), that a lot of the times these are one sided, where the top is getting off but the bottom is not as much or not at all, and vice versa. There is an erotic thrill there from what I can say, it isn't like one is bored chewing gum while the other ones is getting off, but it tends to be a lot more one sided, and I don't see/sense what i do when two people are feeding into each other. I of course have seen people in relationships whose play seemed pretty one side, and two friends who go at it and it is like holy shit, like being near a furnace the energy they put out:)

Thank you so very much for making my point. And the OP even says great summation. For some reason she couldn't see it when I was making it! <shrug>

It takes 2 to tango. That does not mean the OP is doing something right or wrong. The same can be said for her partner. The issue/problem is because BOTH of them are wrong for each other.

Far be it from me to be critical of a partner based on the fact that they "didn't moan correctly" Talk about shallow.

BadOne