RE: Financial Domination / What are your thoughts & Why ?

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RE: Financial Domination / What are your thoughts & Why ? - 7/27/2013 1:14:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dink22

Three - you're ignoring the money factor here. If two people want to get on Skype and get each other off, fine. But when one charges money to the other person for doing it, that changes everything. It's prostitution. That doesn't mean it's bad or evil, but it is prostitution.

Hmm... legally it's not prostitution, and while I can see how a person might make the leap - I don't think it's equivalent.

Now is it part of the Sex Industry - heck yeah, alongside porn, pole dancing and kinky telephone lines but unless there's actual sexy body bit to body bit contact, it ain't prostitution.

That said - I agree with you that prostitution in and of itself isn't necessarily bad or evil - Although, as with many parts of the sex industry the popular story that some people tout that the sex industry is entirely populated by willing happy participants is shockingly far from true.

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RE: Financial Domination / What are your thoughts & Why ? - 7/27/2013 1:19:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

I have noticed that on this site in particular there are a great deal of FinDom haters...lol...Meaning they do NOT agree with the way I or others choose to live our lives and they feel the need to voice their opinion...Where I get confused is because all of these individuals have been subs...Contacting ME to be of service to ME but they only want to serve ME the way they want to lololololll when did this start happening...?

Heroin addicts will find supply in the Mohave desert.

Your point is?

You ain't offering anything new or substantial, even as you may have a spectacular set of tits.

Doesn't make the fact that you're only offering thirst, not water, any less of an example that you're sucking men dry.

If people of your ilk disappeared from the planet, it'd be a (very) nice start....right before lawyers. (And I love lawyers).

...

This is perfection Lookie. And we love you too

It's a gift....and a curse.

(in reply to Spiritedsub2)

RE: Financial Domination / What are your thoughts & Why ? - 7/27/2013 1:33:49 PM

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quote:

One - I wasn't talking to you. I was commenting on the subject.

Bottom right hand of your post says you were.

quote:

Two - don't think I see your point about masturbation. Unless you're saying that if someone masturbates BECAUSE of a sexual service you offered for money it's somehow NOT prostitution. That's laughable. Of course it's prostitution.

The term "prostitution" generally means the commission by a person of any natural or unnatural sexual act, deviate sexual intercourse, or sexual contact for monetary consideration or other thing of value.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/p/prostitution/

quote:

Three - you're ignoring the money factor here. If two people want to get on Skype and get each other off, fine. But when one charges money to the other person for doing it, that changes everything. It's prostitution. That doesn't mean it's bad or evil, but it is prostitution.

Its no different than watching a porno flick. Its no different that watching a peep show. These girls dont get into trouble because of the sex acts. They get into trouble because of the tax evasion. Claim it as income and they are good to go.

But, unless I am mistaken, they can accept gifts up to a certain amount without having to claim it in their taxes.

Ah, loopholes everywhere.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 7/27/2013 1:36:35 PM >

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Financial Domination / What are your thoughts & Why ? - 7/27/2013 1:52:48 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

One - I wasn't talking to you. I was commenting on the subject.

Bottom right hand of your post says you were.

My bad. I was responding to the general thread.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl}
Two - don't think I see your point about masturbation. Unless you're saying that if someone masturbates BECAUSE of a sexual service youoffered for money it's somehow NOT prostitution. That's laughable. Of course it's prostitution.

The term "prostitution" generally means the commission by a person of any natural or unnatural sexual act, deviate sexual intercourse, or sexual contact for monetary consideration or other thing of value.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/p/prostitution/

The term "unnatural" is not included in MOST definitions. Here is the Wiki definition:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution

It's pretty close to mine. You must have searched long and hard for that definition you came up with. None of the other definitions I read said anything about an "unnatural" act.

So I reiterate: if you are selling a sexual service for money, it's prostitution. I'll let the prostitutes live in blissful denial.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Three - you're ignoring the money factor here. If two people want to get on Skype and get each other off, fine. But when one charges money to the other person for doing it, that changes everything. It's prostitution. That doesn't mean it's bad or evil, but it is prostitution.

Its no different than watching a porno flick. Its no different that watching a peep show. These girls dont get into trouble because of the sex acts. They get into trouble because of the tax evasion. Claim it as income and they are good to go.

But, unless I am mistaken, they can accept gifts up to a certain amount without having to claim it in their taxes.

Ah, loopholes everywhere.

It's no different than watching a porno flick than having someone personally interact with you? Thank god you're not a lawyer. And frankly, I can't see the relevance of tax law.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: Financial Domination / What are your thoughts & Why ? - 7/27/2013 2:03:41 PM

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RE: Financial Domination / What are your thoughts & Why ? - 7/27/2013 2:16:33 PM

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quote:

It's pretty close to mine. You must have searched long and hard for that definition you came up with. None of the other definitions I read said anything about an "unnatural" act.

Its a site I often use for legal definitions.

Prostitution is generally defined as providing by a person any natural or unnatural sexual act, deviate sexual intercourse, or sexual contact for monetary consideration or other thing of value.

http://www.hg.org/prostitution-law.html

AMENDMENT 688 RATIFIED
Crime of prostitution in Jefferson County.
(a) This amendment shall apply only to the portions of Jefferson County outside the corporate limits of a municipality.
(b) For the purpose of this constitutional amendment, the term "prostitution" shall mean the commission by a person of any natural or unnatural sexual act, deviate sexual intercourse, or sexual contact for monetary consideration or other thing of value.

http://law.justia.com/constitution/alabama/CA-570580.html

Definition: Solicitation of Prostitution
1: Almost all states have laws making it illegal to engage in, promote, or profit from prostitution. The term "prostitution" generally means the commission by a person of any natural or unnatural sexual act, deviate sexual intercourse, or sexual contact for monetary consideration or other thing of value.

http://www.themullenlawgroup.com/sex-crimes/solicitation-of-prostitution.php

Wiki is hardly the defining site for more than just basic information.

quote:

It's no different than watching a porno flick than having someone personally interact with you? Thank god you're not a lawyer.

They arent personally interacting with you unless they are actually in the same place, touching you.

quote:

And frankly, I can't see the relevance of tax law.

Conviction Quashed In Heidi Fleiss Case

What got her jail time was other charges... not prostitution.

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/01/08/us/heidi-fleiss-given-37-month-sentence.html

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to dink22)

RE: Financial Domination / What are your thoughts & Why ? - 7/27/2013 2:22:26 PM

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Perhaps we both need a reality check Tazzy.

Lol

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Our snark-nado needs more cowbell

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RE: Financial Domination / What are your thoughts & Why ? - 7/27/2013 2:28:56 PM

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LOL

What we need is to be surrounded by less pious and bible thumping people.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TNDommeK)

RE: Financial Domination / What are your thoughts & Why ? - 7/27/2013 2:31:04 PM

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Yeah... Jefferson County, wherever that is, is like a a U.S. standard for law.

And as I said in my OP, it doesn't matter what the LEGAL definition is, be4cause that will vary from state to state and country to country (and evidently, from your post, county to county).

So what the "law" is in Jefferson County specifically is nothing.

Second, read your own definitions:

The term "prostitution" generally means the commission by a person of any natural or unnatural sexual act, deviate sexual intercourse, or sexual contact for monetary consideration or other thing of value.

That would seem to back me up even better than Wiki. Please note it says "any sexual act natural or unnatural...for monetary consideration or other thing of value."

Beyond that, why would anybody consider the Alabama constitution more authoritative than Wiki in the first place?

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RE: Financial Domination / What are your thoughts & Why ? - 7/27/2013 2:47:30 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

LOL

What we need is to be surrounded by less pious and bible thumping people.

Right!

Or people who don't think they are always right just because they say so.

_____________________________

Goddess of Duck Lips and Luxurious Hair
The working Fin Domme
Professional con artist, swindler, trixster, extortionist

Our snark-nado needs more cowbell

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: Financial Domination / What are your thoughts & Why ? - 7/27/2013 2:50:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dink22
Findom most definitely is prostitution, and it is funny to me to watch those involved in this practice squirm, scream and otherwise live in denial that they are prostitutes.

I'm going to reiterate that I'm not a findomme. Very specifically because the last time we did this, you tried to project that I was.

quote:

Look, I think prostitution should be legalized. I'm not judging those who engage in findom, but I don't consider it true, SEXUAL domination. One person is willing to pay for it, one person wants the money. There is no mutual spiritual connection at any level.

This might be a part of the problem. I think there is an assumption on your part that a spiritual connection must be present for sexual Dominance to exist. I can assure you that is not the case. I didn't have a spiritual connection to the last person I had on all fours taking the dear, ol' Doc Johnson up the ass. It wasn't a spiritual thing, nor was it a financial thing. It was a power and control thing that I did because, like many other Dominants, ummmmmm....... I like the power and control.

quote:

There's a quote and I can't remember who said it but it's about 100 years old. "Whenever a person is about to do a thoroughly despicable thing, they always dream up the noblest of reasons for doing so." So it is with findomme. The ones who do it like to pretend that somehow it's legit and NOT about the money. They have their defense mechanisms all prepared because they don't want to deal with the guilt, don't want to deal with the reality of what they're doing. They are prostitutes, plain and simple. If the money wasn't there, they wouldn't be either.

Can I ask you a serious question? Why does this effect you? Why does anything other people engage in, if not in the same community play space that you occupy, effect you? To use a parallel example, if I go and stick forty needles in somebody tonight, even if that's not you kink, please tell Me why that should matter to you one iota? I'm not sticking those needles in you. For all I know, that might be a hard limit of yours. You may hate the very idea that I'm going to do it and the other person wants it done to them. If the needle play wasn't on the table and the play partner was a bondage bunny instead, I'd opt out because, frankly, I've got very little interest in rope and it being a scene that I want to engage in includes those dang forty needles.

Let's go a bit further. Needles are an expendable item. In other words, somebody has to pay for them for each and every scene. Who should buy those needles? Should I assume the cost every time because I'm the top? Does it become financial Domination if the bottom steps up and brings a box? How about if the bottom gives Me the money to order them because I like ordering supplies from Kinky Medical, where I can get the gauge that I want in the color hubs that I want? And, even if you think the cost should be entirely Mine because I am the top, please explain to Me how in the world this effects you?

If those needles (remember, these are the needles that you don't want to engage in because it isn't your kink) are the thing that turns Me on to the point where I *want* to get out the ol' Doc Johnson, is it no longer sexual Dominance because the bottom that I'm playing with is willing to do things that you, as a person, are not willing to do? Let's say (and, I totally get that this is a leap of faith because I have *NO* idea if you like anal play or not) that you have some desire to be the guy receiving the strap on, but you weren't willing to be needle guy, so that's why he's getting done and you're not. The only reason that I can come up with, when it comes to the strap on play that he's getting and you are not, is jealousy. He's got what he's got because he's willing to do stuff that you aren't and that makes you unhappy.

There's not a thing that I said above that couldn't be transposed to the reference of needles in exchange for the reference to cash. You're not willing to pay. Cool. Some people are. Because they are, they reap the benefits that are directly related to that. You're not willing to be needle guy. Cool. Some people are, and they reap the benefits that are directly related to that. Both are based on your choices and really, don't honestly concern you when other people are willing to do what you are not. No matter either scenario, for the life of Me, I can't figure out any reasonable consideration as to why this should effect you.

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Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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(in reply to dink22)

RE: Financial Domination / What are your thoughts & Why ? - 7/27/2013 2:59:53 PM

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What's sad is, instead of actually reading that and thinking of what you said, that'll go in one ear and out the other. That's been my hole whole hang up with him. He doesn't take into consideration what others say, or what others do.

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The working Fin Domme
Professional con artist, swindler, trixster, extortionist

Our snark-nado needs more cowbell

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RE: Financial Domination / What are your thoughts & Why ? - 7/27/2013 3:14:04 PM

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quote:

Yeah... Jefferson County, wherever that is, is like a a U.S. standard for law.

lol... then I invite you to look at the laws in your state. Federal doesnt have a law against prostitution. Its under the states control. That pesky Constitution.

The term "prostitution" generally means the commission by a person of any natural or unnatural sexual act, deviate sexual intercourse, or sexual contact for monetary consideration or other thing of value.

Commission by a person..... of any natural or unnatural sexual act....

Are you now suggesting masturbation is illegal? Because the only act occurring besides the act of watching is the act of masturbation.

deviate sexual intercourse

Pretty sure that requires at least 2 people in the same location.

sexual contact for monetary consideration or other thing of value.

The only sexual contact is... again... masturbation.

If you are going to break down a definition, be sure to keep all the parts intact.

quote:

Beyond that, why would anybody consider the Alabama constitution more authoritative than Wiki in the first place?

For the people who live in Alabama, they definitely would consider it more authoritative than wiki.... lol

And, considering its the states who have the authority to regulate prostitution laws.... yeah.... you may want to rethink that position

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to dink22)

RE: Financial Domination / What are your thoughts & Why ? - 7/27/2013 3:24:12 PM

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quote:

Can I ask you a serious question? Why does this effect you?

It did all affect me, once, and for the worse. You remember that I used to say that I never believed that femdommes were 'real', LP? I used to think there were male fantasists, and women who'd fulfil those fantasies for money, and no other kinds of women.

This made me feel low, and I already felt low because I was a sub male. (Yes, don't ever underestimate that latter. I'm still sensitive on it, even now - and will still pounce mercilessly on any male or female here who hints that sub males are in any way 'less male' as a result of their sub orientation.)

A quick scan through the femdom profiles on CM would produce a welter of duck-lipped, double-bird girlie squits' photos accompanied by profile text that was deliberately insulting and otherwise showed these girlies had the brains of peanuts. And this happened then, a few years ago, before the deluge of said squits' profiles that we seem to have had recently.

However, I was in a position of ignorance. I sometimes think, now, that at least half of the grief that submales - and by extension, femdoms - express here could be avoided *if only people were to come and read and talk here* rather than go straight into searching for partners. You need to come here to these forums to build up your armour before venturing out into the cold hard world of partner-searching, as it were.

For what it's worth: I don't think males generally have much idea of how deeply it cuts women for them to feel as though they're seen as 'whores'. Women seem to be brought up to believe that this is the 'lowest' thing that a woman can be.

Different world for women; different standards apply. But, considering that, in the findomme/submale context, we have a clash between some of the most ancient sensitivities of males and females respectively, in a way it's surprising that this topic hasn't been more rancorous than it's been to date.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 7/27/2013 3:27:01 PM >

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RE: Financial Domination / What are your thoughts & Why ? - 7/27/2013 3:29:08 PM

AthenaSurrenders

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Great post Peon.

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RE: Financial Domination / What are your thoughts & Why ? - 7/27/2013 3:30:42 PM

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I agree Peon. Growing up in a well to do family, whores were something that was considered trash. Now that I'm grown and can think on my own..I don't knock their hustle, so to speak. But I don't like being bunched with them.

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The working Fin Domme
Professional con artist, swindler, trixster, extortionist

Our snark-nado needs more cowbell

(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: Financial Domination / What are your thoughts & Why ? - 7/27/2013 3:31:20 PM

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I know. It was facken excellent, wasn't it?

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RE: Financial Domination / What are your thoughts & Why ? - 7/27/2013 3:32:23 PM

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Agrees with Athena!

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Professional con artist, swindler, trixster, extortionist

Our snark-nado needs more cowbell

(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: Financial Domination / What are your thoughts & Why ? - 7/27/2013 3:39:39 PM

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Lady Pact, I don't understand where you're getting this interpretation from. I don't have a problem with anything anyone else does. As long as it's between two consenting adults, fine. Have I ever said anything otherwise?

Here is my position from the beginning, and it has never changed.

1. Femdom is an eccentric, independent sexuality, similar to being gay. Dominant women belong with submissive men and vice versa. These
relationships have great potential for creating gifted children.

2. I detest anyone (male or female) who tries to exploit submissive males for their money. They are easy targets and I think it's the lowest element
of the human race that does this.

Beyond that, I don't care what people do. I don't even care about these bullshit "financial dommes," I've only asked that they be kept separate, and that all the women seeking to profit from the lonliness of submissive males be kept separate as far as profiles on CM. Of course, we both know the response to that was similar to the response on gun control: if people are still going to be murdered, what's the point of having any control??? By the same token, most of the people on CM said, "well if some financial dommes are still going to post profiles as lifestyle dommes anyway, why have any control???"

But fuck it. Evidently you and the lifestyle dommes don't have a problem being lumped in with scam dommes, financial dommes, etc. It's all cool as far as you're concerned.

Well, Okay. Evidently that's what femdom is in 2013. I'm a guy trying to elevate it to being equal to traditional male-dominant sexuality. And I'm increasingly thinking I'm a fool for doing that. More and more, especially at sites like this, I'm coming to the conclusion that I'm not quite the life-philosopher I thought I was and that maybe femdom is something that happens in males as a kind of Oedipus complex. In other words, it's not a normal sexuality (which I thought it was), but rather a psychological aberration occurring mostly in males.

Which is probably what it is.

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: Financial Domination / What are your thoughts & Why ? - 7/27/2013 3:42:08 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

I agree Peon. Growing up in a well to do family, whores were something that was considered trash. Now that I'm grown and can think on my own..I don't knock their hustle, so to speak. But I don't like being bunched with them.

I saw a prostitute, once, in Amsterdam. Interesting experience. Hell, she was beautiful - in a kind of Victorian way - strong face, cheekbones, long nose, that kind of thing. As Bob Hoskins said to Robbie Coltrane about the 'Mona Lisa' (a high class prostitute), in The Long Good Friday "Yeah, she's a whore, but she's still a fucking lady". I did like her, and remember her fondly. She taught me a few essential things.

But I couldn't see a prostitute again, nor ever see a findomme, and for the same reason: the idea just embarrasses me. I can't have that kind of relationship with a woman, not even for thirty minutes. It's wrong for me, in too many ways. It isn't my world.

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