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Abuse in the lifestyle - 8/4/2013 8:05:58 AM

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I have been out of the lifestyle for awhile. And I am wondering if we have progressed as a culture.

I can remember when outright abuse was fairly common. But back then there was no such thing as a safeword. I even had a friend who ran a slave rehabilitation home. He'd take in broken girls and help them get back to being functional.

Have we as a culture progressed to where this is not as much of an issue as it used to be? I know that you can still have a bad experience, especially if your not smart enough to play safe. But is abuse as common as it was?

RE: Abuse in the lifestyle - 8/4/2013 8:52:23 AM

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From: The cold bit of the UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmine777

I have been out of the lifestyle for awhile. And I am wondering if we have progressed as a culture.

I don't believe this is a 'lifestyle/culture' any more than being in a relationship is a 'lifestyle/culture'. What Master and I do is nothing to do with anyone else, so their ideas of right and wrong mean absolutely nothing to us. And quite rightly, what we consider right and wrong should mean absolutely nothing to everyone else. If the local clubs and munches all shut down tomorrow, it wouldn't make a difference to us. If the kinky websites closed down, it would have pretty much zero impact on us. We are a kinky couple, not members of some super-special worldwide cult.

quote:

I can remember when outright abuse was fairly common.

It's always been fairly common. Being kinky does not make you more or less likely to be abused. It's making bad choices that makes you more likely to be abused. I had a partner back in the day when I was very vanilla who slapped me hard enough to black my eye, just because he was in a bad mood. I dumped his abusive ass and made a complaint with the local police department. I'd do the same if Master turned abusive rather than merely sadistic. The kink means nothing - it's the people involved that make the difference.

quote:

But back then there was no such thing as a safeword.

Really???? Nope, not buying it.

quote:

I even had a friend who ran a slave rehabilitation home. He'd take in broken girls and help them get back to being functional.

Broken girls? Slave rehabilitation home?? Hmmmmm....*sniffs the air suspiciously for the rich scent of bovine effluence*

quote:

Have we as a culture progressed to where this is not as much of an issue as it used to be? I know that you can still have a bad experience, especially if your not smart enough to play safe. But is abuse as common as it was?

Abuse is as common as people. Where there are people there is likely to be abuse. Where there are assholes, there is likely to be abuse. Where there are people who make stupid choices, there is likely to be abuse. Kink has no bearing on it.

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RE: Abuse in the lifestyle - 8/4/2013 9:01:27 AM

AthenaSurrenders

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FR

There always have, and always will be, people who are abusive to their partners. These people come from every walk of life and every social background. Some of those people are also kinky.

I doubt there has been a shift in the 'culture' of BDSM outside of a general social shift which has resulted in help being more readily available and accessible for victims.

I am massively skeptical of the 'slave rehabilitation home'. People who identify as slaves do not require different support when they suffer domestic abuse than people who identify as vanilla, and someone deliberately gathering DV victims into his care screams 'preying on the vulnerable'. I'm assuming this wasn't a person with professional qualifications running a refuge. Sounds like creepy nonsense to me.

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RE: Abuse in the lifestyle - 8/4/2013 9:11:06 AM

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So you really can't answer my question but decide you should comment on my reasons for asking. Please have a nice day somewhere else.

(in reply to myotherself)

RE: Abuse in the lifestyle - 8/4/2013 9:15:00 AM

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From: The cold bit of the UK
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I did answer your question. And I don't actually care why you asked the question - this is a discussion board, I assumed you wanted responses to your questions and comments, which you got.

If you read it carefully, you'll see that I don't think it is any worse now than it was before, that I don't believe that kink is a factor in the amount of abusive relationships, and that the 'slave rehabilitation' refuge is a little...unsettling.

Sadly you don't get to choose where I hang out today.

Have a lovely day yourself, wherever you choose to be

edited for clarity

< Message edited by myotherself -- 8/4/2013 9:17:11 AM >

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RE: Abuse in the lifestyle - 8/4/2013 9:17:15 AM

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Joined: 8/4/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

FR

I doubt there has been a shift in the 'culture' of BDSM outside of a general social shift which has resulted in help being more readily available and accessible for victims.

There is a difference in help being readily available. But all of society is different today.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

FR

I am massively skeptical of the 'slave rehabilitation home'. People who identify as slaves do not require different support when they suffer domestic abuse than people who identify as vanilla, and someone deliberately gathering DV victims into his care screams 'preying on the vulnerable'. I'm assuming this wasn't a person with professional qualifications running a refuge. Sounds like creepy nonsense to me.

Be as skeptical as you wish. Doesn't change what he did or those he helped.

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

RE: Abuse in the lifestyle - 8/4/2013 9:22:15 AM

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Joined: 8/4/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself

I did answer your question. And I don't actually care why you asked the question - this is a discussion board, I assumed you wanted responses to your questions and comments, which you got.

edited for clarity

Well the don't care part of your response is clear enough.

quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself

If you read it carefully, you'll see that I don't think it is any worse now than it was before, that I don't believe that kink is a factor in the amount of abusive relationships, and that the 'slave rehabilitation' refuge is a little...unsettling.

edited for clarity

Ahh the old not thinking argument yes I can see where you have difficulties there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself

Sadly you don't get to choose where I hang out today.

edited for clarity

Well at least your right about one thing.. SADLY I don't...

(in reply to myotherself)

RE: Abuse in the lifestyle - 8/4/2013 9:56:43 AM

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Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline

You get that this is a discussion board, right? Two people have responded that don't entirely agree with your viewpoint, and you seem to take it personally.

This is really the point at which you get to discuss the responses you gained in a thoughtful manner and perhaps provoke more discussion. That's kinda what we do round here. Instead you seem to take our disagreement personally and turn it into mild personal insults.

You still have a chance to turn this discussion into something positive. Maybe you could add some insight into your thinking when it comes to the levels of abuse among kinky folk, for example. Or where you consider the responsibility lies for helping those kinky folk who have been abused. I'm being totally serious here, and trying very hard to continue this as a potentially interesting discussion regarding abuse and kinky folk.

Are you willing to try?

_____________________________

There's nowt so queer as folk

(in reply to Jasmine777)

RE: Abuse in the lifestyle - 8/4/2013 9:59:30 AM

Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmine777

I have been out of the lifestyle for awhile. And I am wondering if we have progressed as a culture.

I can remember when outright abuse was fairly common. But back then there was no such thing as a safeword. I even had a friend who ran a slave rehabilitation home. He'd take in broken girls and help them get back to being functional.

Have we as a culture progressed to where this is not as much of an issue as it used to be? I know that you can still have a bad experience, especially if your not smart enough to play safe. But is abuse as common as it was?

According to your profile you are in your 70s.
That gives "back then" a slightly different context.

You have been out of the lifestyle for awhile.
What you don't understand is that when someone posts that, it can mean 3 months, or 3 years.
It does not usually mean a decade or more.
And context is nearly everything.

I think that "back then" when BDSM was less mainstream and things were more hushed, perhaps abuse seemed more common.
But then again, back then, if you beat your wife you weren't usually arrested.
Domestic violence wasn't viewed the same way.

So, while I don't think abuse in the lifestyle has probably lessened any because abuse exist in all the wide varieties of intimate relationships (back then did you know of couples in which the wife beat their wife, or the husband beat their husband...? Probably not because those relationships were not as open...), I think the boundaries of what abuse is is more clearly defined and resources are more readily available, and it is something people can talk about more openly.

I think where things may be changine in the community is that "the community" is working with law enforcement agencies to inform what BDSM is, how it is different from abuse and how to approach it when a BDSM relationship becomes abusive.
But it is going to take time.

http://www.the-crucible.com/bdsm.htm
http://www.kinkabuse.com/
http://www.salon.com/2012/01/29/real_abuse_in_bdsm/
http://www.sfbg.com/sexsf/2012/01/23/bad-kind-pain-kitty-stryker-talks-sexual-abuse-bdsm-community
http://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2012/04/scene-is-not-safe.html
http://www.experienceproject.com/groups/Was-Abused-In-A-Bdsm-Relationship/145645
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnY8Z4vyLi8

Edit: missing letters

< Message edited by angelikaJ -- 8/4/2013 10:34:06 AM >

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(in reply to Jasmine777)

RE: Abuse in the lifestyle - 8/4/2013 10:10:08 AM

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmine777

I have been out of the lifestyle for awhile. And I am wondering if we have progressed as a culture.

Of course we have progressed as a culture, just not very fast.

I can remember when outright abuse was fairly common. But back then there was no such thing as a safeword. I even had a friend who ran a slave rehabilitation home. He'd take in broken girls and help them get back to being functional.

What??? Abuse was fairly common where? In someone's online fantasy life? Safewords have been around as long as I have been into this, going on 37 years now. BTW: The slave rehabilitation home has been an online myth for a good 15 years now, but thanks for bringing it back around.

Have we as a culture progressed to where this is not as much of an issue as it used to be? I know that you can still have a bad experience, especially if your not smart enough to play safe. But is abuse as common as it was?

As has been mentioned, abuse is common in this world. Abuse of all sorts, but domestic abuse abounds. Why you think the BDSM community would be different I have no idea. You know the community is made up of individual people, and how they conduct their lives is up to them. One would hope some have educated themselves a/o gotten into therapy. You do understand for every abuser there is a victim, right? There will be less abusers when there are less victims. This seems to be a major concern for you. What are YOU doing to help that happen?

I'm having a marvelous day so far, thank you so much.

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RE: Abuse in the lifestyle - 8/4/2013 10:11:28 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmine777
I have been out of the lifestyle for awhile. And I am wondering if we have progressed as a culture.

I can remember when outright abuse was fairly common. But back then there was no such thing as a safeword. I even had a friend who ran a slave rehabilitation home. He'd take in broken girls and help them get back to being functional.

Have we as a culture progressed to where this is not as much of an issue as it used to be? I know that you can still have a bad experience, especially if your not smart enough to play safe. But is abuse as common as it was?

That depends on exactly which "culture" you are talking about. I happen to be a leather person, so yes, leather is a culture. I don't know if I'd consider BDSM a culture or not.

On the subject of abuse, I think you are generalizing about who abuses whom. It's not all "girls" (by which I'm going to assume that you are talking about submissive women) who fall victim to this. While not as common, submissives and/or women can also be abusers in a physical sense and in other ways as well. Same gender relationships also have a significant rate of folks who fall into the domestic violence category. Sub males have also been known to be abusive to Dommes.

The National Leather Association - International has been working on their Domestic Violence Project for years to promote education. You can read more about them from this link. http://www.changemakers.com/competition/endabuse/entries/nla-i-domestic-violence-project-know-difference

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(in reply to Jasmine777)

RE: Abuse in the lifestyle - 8/4/2013 2:18:42 PM

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I was abused (verbally, mentally) by my vanilla ex-husband

I have been treated wonderfully by the two kinky men that have been in my life since.

So you can't prove that there is more abuse in the kink lifestyle than the vanilla by me.

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: Abuse in the lifestyle - 8/4/2013 2:25:53 PM

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Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Sorry, opie, when your assumptions are erroneous, do expect to be called on it.

Another one who votes for the 'slave rehabilatator' as a user of the nth degree. I just bet he told them that their exes were bad, and he'd treat them nice, as long as they sucked his dick. And when he wanted a newer and dumber girl, he told them it was time to spread their wings and go back out into the big, bad world.

Dysfunctional people get into abusive relationships. When you take responsibility for yourself and become healthy, you stop attracting abusers and you learn to see the signs, avoid them and stop being attracted to them.

You believe all subs are stupid and naive, and it's always the dominant's fault. That's not true. So asking us to tell you that you're correct when you start off wrong is never going to garner you what you want.

The op is perhaps one of the best examples of seeing the mote in another's eye while unable to see the beam in your own that I've read in quite a while.

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 8/4/2013 2:26:49 PM >

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RE: Abuse in the lifestyle - 8/4/2013 3:30:02 PM

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Joined: 8/4/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmine777

I have been out of the lifestyle for awhile. And I am wondering if we have progressed as a culture.

I can remember when outright abuse was fairly common. But back then there was no such thing as a safeword. I even had a friend who ran a slave rehabilitation home. He'd take in broken girls and help them get back to being functional.

Have we as a culture progressed to where this is not as much of an issue as it used to be? I know that you can still have a bad experience, especially if your not smart enough to play safe. But is abuse as common as it was?

According to your profile you are in your 70s.
That gives "back then" a slightly different context.

You have been out of the lifestyle for awhile.
What you don't understand is that when someone posts that, it can mean 3 months, or 3 years.
It does not usually mean a decade or more.
And context is nearly everything.

I think that "back then" when BDSM was less mainstream and things were more hushed, perhaps abuse seemed more common.
But then again, back then, if you beat your wife you weren't usually arrested.
Domestic violence wasn't viewed the same way.

So, while I don't think abuse in the lifestyle has probably lessened any because abuse exist in all the wide varieties of intimate relationships (back then did you know of couples in which the wife beat their wife, or the husband beat their husband...? Probably not because those relationships were not as open...), I think the boundaries of what abuse is is more clearly defined and resources are more readily available, and it is something people can talk about more openly.

I think where things may be changine in the community is that "the community" is working with law enforcement agencies to inform what BDSM is, how it is different from abuse and how to approach it when a BDSM relationship becomes abusive.
But it is going to take time.

http://www.the-crucible.com/bdsm.htm
http://www.kinkabuse.com/
http://www.salon.com/2012/01/29/real_abuse_in_bdsm/
http://www.sfbg.com/sexsf/2012/01/23/bad-kind-pain-kitty-stryker-talks-sexual-abuse-bdsm-community
http://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2012/04/scene-is-not-safe.html
http://www.experienceproject.com/groups/Was-Abused-In-A-Bdsm-Relationship/145645
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnY8Z4vyLi8

Edit: missing letters

Thanks Angelica,

That makes a lot of sense and I appreciate the insight.

(in reply to angelikaJ)

RE: Abuse in the lifestyle - 8/4/2013 3:50:15 PM

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Joined: 8/4/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself

You get that this is a discussion board, right? Two people have responded that don't entirely agree with your viewpoint, and you seem to take it personally.

This is really the point at which you get to discuss the responses you gained in a thoughtful manner and perhaps provoke more discussion. That's kinda what we do round here. Instead you seem to take our disagreement personally and turn it into mild personal insults.

You still have a chance to turn this discussion into something positive. Maybe you could add some insight into your thinking when it comes to the levels of abuse among kinky folk, for example. Or where you consider the responsibility lies for helping those kinky folk who have been abused. I'm being totally serious here, and trying very hard to continue this as a potentially interesting discussion regarding abuse and kinky folk.

Are you willing to try?

Myotherself: I don't understand this response at all you haven't disagreed with me, at least I don't believe you have. You just ignored what I was asking completely. Hmmm actually you still are. But please continue to ridicule me if it makes you feel empowered.

(in reply to myotherself)

RE: Abuse in the lifestyle - 8/4/2013 4:00:50 PM

Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmine777

quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself

You get that this is a discussion board, right? Two people have responded that don't entirely agree with your viewpoint, and you seem to take it personally.

This is really the point at which you get to discuss the responses you gained in a thoughtful manner and perhaps provoke more discussion. That's kinda what we do round here. Instead you seem to take our disagreement personally and turn it into mild personal insults.

You still have a chance to turn this discussion into something positive. Maybe you could add some insight into your thinking when it comes to the levels of abuse among kinky folk, for example. Or where you consider the responsibility lies for helping those kinky folk who have been abused. I'm being totally serious here, and trying very hard to continue this as a potentially interesting discussion regarding abuse and kinky folk.

Are you willing to try?

Myotherself: I don't understand this response at all you haven't disagreed with me, at least I don't believe you have. You just ignored what I was asking completely. Hmmm actually you still are. But please continue to ridicule me if it makes you feel empowered.

I disagreed that we have a 'lifestyle' or 'culture'.

I didn't ignore your question - I actually said I didn't think things were better or worse now than they were, and that IMO being kinky wasn't a factor in whether a relationship was abusive or not, a viewpoint echoed by other posters.

I'm not ridiculing you - that certainly wasn't my intention. You just seemed to have derailed your own discussion by taking exception to the way I responded to your post. I then tried to encourage you to get back on track and make this discussion worthwhile instead of descending into negativity.

It's entirely up to you how you continue to respond to myself and other posters. I'm not 'empowered' by displays of over-sensitivity - mostly it just bewilders me slightly. Why get riled by pixels on a screen? It's no big deal in the grand scheme of things.

I wish you well, and enjoy the rest of the discussion

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(in reply to Jasmine777)

RE: Abuse in the lifestyle - 8/4/2013 4:07:16 PM

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Joined: 8/4/2013
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Thanks

(in reply to myotherself)

RE: Abuse in the lifestyle - 8/5/2013 5:54:55 AM

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Joined: 4/3/2007
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Those were the bad old days Jasmine. The days when we ended up in the workhouse if we didn't do what a man said. Abuse was rife and if it wasn't consensual then so be it.

Those few kind men that set up shelters for rehabilitating slaves, were such heroes. We should have a BDSM national holiday each year in remembrance of such good folk.

You are new to BDSM aren't you Jasmine? In a few years you will look at what you asked here and cringe with embarrassment.

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My store is http://e-stimstore.com

(in reply to Jasmine777)

RE: Abuse in the lifestyle - 8/5/2013 5:11:28 PM

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From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline

I know for myself, this is why I personally believe in Safe, Sane and Consensual. But that's just me. What other people do in a consenting environment is all on them. That's all.

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https://Twitter.com/SubGuy6682

(in reply to MariaB)

RE: Abuse in the lifestyle - 8/6/2013 4:13:26 PM

MindOverMatter47

Posts: 8
Joined: 7/14/2013
Status: offline

Please be careful out there. There are men who are very talented in making you feel they are in love with you.... and it's all for money. It happened to me. The Master I am supposedly in a relationship with asked for money to pay his cell phone so we could keep talking. He is in Arizona and so the cell phone was all important to sustain our relationship. He does not have internet services where he lives in the evening... So because everything was so gloriously wonderful between us, I sent $150 for the cell phone - he asked for $150. And then he started telling me about how he only eats one time a day to save money while he is waiting for a contract (independent contractor).... so of course, now i'm in love with him, and I felt sorry for him and I sent another $200 and then another $200 to make sure he was eating correctly. He has diabetes (supposedly), so eating right and eating more than one time a day is important.

I am MindOverMatter47. You can read my journals and follow the way I fell in love and how it all seemed so beautiful and wonderful..... You can check out the name and moniker of the Dom - I'm sure he will keep trying to get money out of other women....

There were two things that made me wake up: He asked me today about more money.... and he has never written about me on his profile. He continues to chat with other women without letting anyone know up front that he is involved (supposedly) in a committed monogamous relationship with me.

And mind you, we have never met each other yet in person. We have only known each other for about 2 months.

(in reply to Charles6682)

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