RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (Full Version)

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19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care?


He got what he deserved
  15% (14)
I would take him to Disneyland
  2% (2)
Cops are a cold hearted SOB
  20% (18)
I personally am sick of looking at grapiti
  12% (11)
Outlaw tazers
  13% (12)
More people ought to tag
  3% (3)
I want to live in a slum
  1% (1)
Kids will be kids
  11% (10)
Regulate sales of paint
  7% (7)
Buy that cop a beer!
  11% (10)


Total Votes : 88
(last vote on : 8/16/2013 2:00:10 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )


Message


imogenempire -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/13/2013 9:00:38 PM)

Frankly, I don't think the police did wrong. The guy was a criminal with no respect for other people's property and thus obviously no respect for other people in general. The linked article made note of his previous arrest for taking things that didn't belong to him and indicated the police had already confronted him about using things that don't belong to him as a canvas for his "art". Just because you like to paint doesn't mean you have the right to use other people's property, trespass or ruin things that don't belong to you. It's common sense and if at nineteen he didn't get it, he never would have. In my opinion he would have only gotten worse and more destructive.

As for people saying there was no need for deadly force, tasers are not considered deadly force. That's mentioned in the article. The police obviously did not have cause for using deadly forced and chose the taser method instead, believing it appropriate for the situation. They did not shoot him. The article plainly states most taser related deaths are the result of drugs in the system or a serious medical condition. He was hit once, not multiple times, and he was brought to hospital when the police noticed something was wrong. The police did exactly what they should have. Criminals don't have a right to expect the police not to do their job, regardless of whether the crime is violent or not. No society is ever going to say it's lawful for people to destroy the private property of others on a whim.




metamorfosis -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/13/2013 9:07:12 PM)

My choice wasn't there.

"This is sad, but the police were just doing there jobs and couldn't have predicted the outcome."




BamaD -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/13/2013 10:17:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis

My choice wasn't there.

"This is sad, but the police were just doing there jobs and couldn't have predicted the outcome."

Same here.




chatterbox24 -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/14/2013 5:08:14 AM)

Silly kid should have just stopped running.

I can see the whole thing playing out in my head. Kid was passionate about his art and wanted to put it out there on a big scale, but also was disregarding the rules. He had ran from the cops multiple times for tagging, and outwitted them and escaped being physically caught in the act. One or two of those cops had a vendetta against him and were going to make sure he was caught and it escalated to a 5 man team. They knew him, and knew he didn't have a violent history but he was a pain in the butt, so when he was cornered, they wanted to make sure he remembered it. I wonder how much this boy weighed? I wonder how much these 5 cops weighed? I wonder if the weight, size, and non violent history of the kid was taken into consideration during the escalation of events? I highly doubt it. This kind of behavior should be used on murderers, rapists, pedophiles, true sociopaths, violent histories, not misled annoying frail kids.
A seasoned, intelligent, brave, level police officer would not have handled this situation like this at all. I think they were running on emotion only, not logic.




pahunkboy -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/14/2013 5:35:15 AM)

quote:

The guy was a criminal with no respect for other people's property and thus obviously no respect for other people in general


I agree.




Hillwilliam -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/14/2013 6:21:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24

Silly kid should have just stopped running.

A seasoned, intelligent, brave, level police officer would not have handled this situation like this at all. I think they were running on emotion only, not logic.

Police officers that are particularly brave frequently don't live long enough to become seasoned.
You bring up his size.
How big a person does it take to shove a knife into your guts in the dark.
Everyone begins life with a non-violent history.
Are you willing to bet your life at 5 AM in a dark alley that it will continue?
It's your funeral.




Zonie63 -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/14/2013 8:06:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
A seasoned, intelligent, brave, level police officer would not have handled this situation like this at all. I think they were running on emotion only, not logic.


I have known some cops who have told me that they're bound to assert police authority more than anything else. They feel an obligation to make it a priority come down hard on anyone who mouths off, runs away, or otherwise defies the authority of the police. I've been told that the best thing to do is be compliant, respectful, and honest. If it's a minor infraction, they might even let you off with a warning. I don't think that would have worked in this case, although I agree that the smarter thing for the kid to do would be to just give up and offer no resistance.

I don't know that it's necessarily an ego thing or a power trip, as there might actually be a method behind the madness. I think the logic is that if they didn't deal with open defiance in a harsh and aggressive manner, then the police would lose their authority and society would degenerate into anarchy. I don't entirely agree with that, although I understand the reasoning behind it. It's not entirely the cops' fault either, as they're under pressure themselves, and they're part of a hierarchy where shit rolls downhill. They didn't really create the situation; they just have the duty to deal with it.

But how does a situation like this get created in the first place? Obviously, the kid is mostly at fault here, since he was the one vandalizing, but it seems like a constant problem that never goes away. I go through some areas and can scarcely find a single vertical surface which hasn't been defaced in some way. I can understand society's frustration in demanding that the police do something about it, so the police are under pressure - although the problem itself was not really created by the police. They just have to deal with the shit that's caused by the collective whole of society, such as a culture which convinces kids that it's cool to paint graffiti all over the place.

How do these ideas get into their heads? Is it just the thrill factor of doing something illegal? Are they trying to convey some sort of message? I've read recently that the gangs don't really mark their territory in this way anymore, that most graffiti is done by non-gang members, generally delinquents and mischief-makers, not hardened criminals.

I don't really buy the argument that they're "artists." Maybe some of them are, but if so, then there are plenty of other avenues one can express one's artistic talent. Fact is, society loves artists. I appreciate good art myself, and even some graffiti might have a political or philosophical message which might challenge one to think. Hell, even something as innocuous as "John Loves Mary" might be annoying but not so bad in the grand scheme of things.

But a lot of this graffiti is just mindless, nonsensical scribbling. I feel like I need a Graffiti-to-English translator to be able to figure out what any of that illegible gibberish is supposed to mean.

I think what we need is a squad of English teachers to volunteer to go around with cans of red spray paint to correct and write comments about the bad penmanship and poor grammar of most graffiti "artists." (Art teachers could also be employed to give grades to the actual "art.") Once they see their graffiti being publicly corrected and graded a big fat "F," then they will see the error of their ways and stop on their own. It just won't be as fun anymore.




BamaD -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/14/2013 2:48:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
A seasoned, intelligent, brave, level police officer would not have handled this situation like this at all. I think they were running on emotion only, not logic.


I have known some cops who have told me that they're bound to assert police authority more than anything else. They feel an obligation to make it a priority come down hard on anyone who mouths off, runs away, or otherwise defies the authority of the police. I've been told that the best thing to do is be compliant, respectful, and honest. If it's a minor infraction, they might even let you off with a warning. I don't think that would have worked in this case, although I agree that the smarter thing for the kid to do would be to just give up and offer no resistance.

I don't know that it's necessarily an ego thing or a power trip, as there might actually be a method behind the madness. I think the logic is that if they didn't deal with open defiance in a harsh and aggressive manner, then the police would lose their authority and society would degenerate into anarchy. I don't entirely agree with that, although I understand the reasoning behind it. It's not entirely the cops' fault either, as they're under pressure themselves, and they're part of a hierarchy where shit rolls downhill. They didn't really create the situation; they just have the duty to deal with it.

But how does a situation like this get created in the first place? Obviously, the kid is mostly at fault here, since he was the one vandalizing, but it seems like a constant problem that never goes away. I go through some areas and can scarcely find a single vertical surface which hasn't been defaced in some way. I can understand society's frustration in demanding that the police do something about it, so the police are under pressure - although the problem itself was not really created by the police. They just have to deal with the shit that's caused by the collective whole of society, such as a culture which convinces kids that it's cool to paint graffiti all over the place.

How do these ideas get into their heads? Is it just the thrill factor of doing something illegal? Are they trying to convey some sort of message? I've read recently that the gangs don't really mark their territory in this way anymore, that most graffiti is done by non-gang members, generally delinquents and mischief-makers, not hardened criminals.

I don't really buy the argument that they're "artists." Maybe some of them are, but if so, then there are plenty of other avenues one can express one's artistic talent. Fact is, society loves artists. I appreciate good art myself, and even some graffiti might have a political or philosophical message which might challenge one to think. Hell, even something as innocuous as "John Loves Mary" might be annoying but not so bad in the grand scheme of things.

But a lot of this graffiti is just mindless, nonsensical scribbling. I feel like I need a Graffiti-to-English translator to be able to figure out what any of that illegible gibberish is supposed to mean.

I think what we need is a squad of English teachers to volunteer to go around with cans of red spray paint to correct and write comments about the bad penmanship and poor grammar of most graffiti "artists." (Art teachers could also be employed to give grades to the actual "art.") Once they see their graffiti being publicly corrected and graded a big fat "F," then they will see the error of their ways and stop on their own. It just won't be as fun anymore.


Why are cops "bound" to maintain police authority?
To so people won't think they can get away with fighting them.
Makes things safer for EVERYONE.




BamaD -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/14/2013 2:52:04 PM)

Monday morning quarterbacking.
With a couple of weeks to think about it anyone can come up with what seems to be a better way to handle any situation than the people who have one second to come to a conclusion.




Politesub53 -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/14/2013 4:04:20 PM)

Odd how some people who condemn drone strikes on a known American terrorist, due to no due process, are fine and dandy with this being okay.

The suggestion the kid doesnt deserve due process because he was spraying walls is laughable. The notion it was necessary to shoot him 42 times is staggering.





BamaD -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/14/2013 5:54:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Odd how some people who condemn drone strikes on a known American terrorist, due to no due process, are fine and dandy with this being okay.

The suggestion the kid doesnt deserve due process because he was spraying walls is laughable. The notion it was necessary to shoot him 42 times is staggering.



You have the wrong incident. The kid was shot once and that was with a taser.




kdsub -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/14/2013 6:11:33 PM)

Yea you are talking about the guy that tried to run down police officers...was surrounded...pulled a gun off the seat and was shot 42 times.

Butch




BamaD -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/14/2013 7:21:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Yea you are talking about the guy that tried to run down police officers...was surrounded...pulled a gun off the seat and was shot 42 times.

Butch

Or the one where he pulled a knife on 4 cops, it's being talked about in the suicide by cop thread.




pahunkboy -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/15/2013 7:40:09 AM)

quote:

Odd how some people who condemn drone strikes on a known American terrorist, due to no due process, are fine and dandy with this being okay.


I will buy that.


(even tho- I shed no tears on the tagger)




truckinslave -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/15/2013 10:43:47 AM)

quote:

in this case its McDs.


Probably not (I doubt McD shutters many properties).
More likely owned by some guy who leased it to some guy who bought a franchise and ran into trouble.
Neither of whom should have to spend money they don't have to clean up after this "Picasso"




truckinslave -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/15/2013 10:48:24 AM)

quote:

he was giving the possibility to be tackled running through them.


At which point, having been tackled, the poor darling suffers a bruised knee, a wrenched back, and a mysterious but very painful shoulder injury. He hires a shyster, sues the city for a couple billion, and the poor cop who tackled him gets five years in the pen for excessive force.

How do the cops win?

Taser his ass. Darwin at work.




truckinslave -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/15/2013 10:51:50 AM)

quote:

then fatal or 'deadly' force is simply unnecessary.


I agree absolutely.
So did the cops.
Which is why they didn't shoot him.




truckinslave -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/15/2013 10:56:38 AM)

quote:

Once they saw him, all they had to do was go pick him up at home the next day.


That's actually an interesting point, if they saw him clearly enough to identify him and swear to it in court.
Of course, that information is not given....




truckinslave -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/15/2013 10:59:52 AM)

[sm=donttaseme.gif][sm=agree.gif]
quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

Probably some of the people who said, "If Zimmerman had only listened to the Police........," that incident would not have happened.
Are the same people who are giving this kid a pass for NOT listening to the Police who ordered him to stop!

[sm=agree.gif] [sm=donttaseme.gif] [sm=agree.gif]




Politesub53 -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/15/2013 4:02:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Yea you are talking about the guy that tried to run down police officers...was surrounded...pulled a gun off the seat and was shot 42 times.

Butch

Or the one where he pulled a knife on 4 cops, it's being talked about in the suicide by cop thread.



Yes, this was the one I was thinking of.




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