RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (Full Version)

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[Poll]

19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care?


He got what he deserved
  15% (14)
I would take him to Disneyland
  2% (2)
Cops are a cold hearted SOB
  20% (18)
I personally am sick of looking at grapiti
  12% (11)
Outlaw tazers
  13% (12)
More people ought to tag
  3% (3)
I want to live in a slum
  1% (1)
Kids will be kids
  11% (10)
Regulate sales of paint
  7% (7)
Buy that cop a beer!
  11% (10)


Total Votes : 88
(last vote on : 8/16/2013 2:00:10 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )


Message


Hillwilliam -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 9:31:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim


quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

Probably some of the people who said, "If Zimmerman had only listened to the Police........," that incident would not have happened.
Are the same people who are giving this kid a pass for NOT listening to the Police who ordered him to stop!

I'd bet that not one person blaming Zimmerman and the police instead of Martin and the kid has ever or will ever put themselves in Zimmerman's or the police's shoes.

You just lost the bet. What do I win?

ETA. I blame Zimmy for being a fuckwit wannabe mall cop who used a firearm as a replacement for brains and I blame the kid in this one for being a criminal at 5AM.




Winterapple -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 9:39:41 AM)

Lavender is my favorite color, Hill and you're welcome
at my house anytime.[;)]

They couldn't have known absolutely for sure he was
unarmed but I think their prior interactions with him
made them aware he wasn't violent. I don't consider
a shuttered up McDonalds a victim. I imagine it was a
eyesore. Even if it was my property I wouldn't want someone
dead just for spray painting it. A few years ago some boys
deliberately broke a window in my house. I was satisfied with
them apologizing and replacing it.

I think the use of a weapon that has documented cases of causing
death on someone who was not committing a violent crime is
chilling. And the behavior of the policemen after using the taser
is if nothing else unprofessional and immature.




tj444 -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 9:41:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Winterapple

Lavender is my favorite color, Hill and you're welcome
at my house anytime.[;)]


can you make him take his shirt off while he is painting? I wanna see pics! [8D]




Winterapple -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 9:48:08 AM)

I imagine the women in my neighborhood would be
lining up around the block to wipe his sweaty brow.[;)]




peope -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 9:51:10 AM)

An unfortunate accident.
If it had worked as intended he had gone down on the ground with perhaps a bruise.
Someone might as well have broken the neck if a cop had tripped the kid.

Simply a sad accident.




pahunkboy -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 9:57:45 AM)

..if the tagging was copywrited- it might even be illegal to look at it- unless you pay the license fee.




BamaD -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 10:03:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: peope

An unfortunate accident.
If it had worked as intended he had gone down on the ground with perhaps a bruise.
Someone might as well have broken the neck if a cop had tripped the kid.

Simply a sad accident.

Finally someone noticed that the tazer is intended and used to PREVENT serious injury.
Had they intended to kill they would have used a firearm.
Had they intended to inflict a great deal of pain they would have "subdued" him.
Clearly either the equipment was faulty, or he had a serious medical condition which may well have killed him during subdual.




eulero83 -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 10:07:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

Probably some of the people who said, "If Zimmerman had only listened to the Police........," that incident would not have happened.
Are the same people who are giving this kid a pass for NOT listening to the Police who ordered him to stop!


why everything has to be a movie where the bad guy dress in black and the good guy in white, who ever said the kid had to be given a pass, but between that and death by electrocution there is a lot of things in the middle, but I don't understand even why police has no duty to protect pesonal safety of suspects.




Hillwilliam -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 10:16:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Winterapple

I think the use of a weapon that has documented cases of causing
death on someone who was not committing a violent crime is
chilling. And the behavior of the policemen after using the taser
is if nothing else unprofessional and immature.

Maybe they should have used a rifle.
More people are killed using fists every year than rifles.

I know that was facetious but the point is that everything you can use to stop someone MIGHT kill him.
Fists kill sometimes.
Night sticks kill sometimes
Control holds kill sometimes
Guns kill sometimes
Tripping someone kills sometimes.
Flashlights kill sometimes.

The taser is about the least lethal weapon in the PD arsenal including hands and is the least likely to leave lasting damage. Unfortunately, sometimes people still die.

Why didn't the young man just not decide to commit a criminal act or, failing that, give himself up instead of leading them on a merry chase over hill and dale?

Know what the tragedy is?
Now his friends can be charged with homicide.




DesideriScuri -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 10:21:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Know what the tragedy is?
Now his friends can be charged with homicide.


Explain, please. Did I miss something?




Hillwilliam -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 10:25:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Know what the tragedy is?
Now his friends can be charged with homicide.


Explain, please. Did I miss something?


In Florida, if someone dies during the commission of a crime, any accomplices can be charged with the death as they contributed to the actions.




Lucylastic -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 10:27:41 AM)

wot a piss poor world we live in




DesideriScuri -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 10:30:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Winterapple
I think the use of a weapon that has documented cases of causing
death on someone who was not committing a violent crime is
chilling. And the behavior of the policemen after using the taser
is if nothing else unprofessional and immature.


It is also documented to not having caused death. It is designed for a non-lethal purpose, and was used with non-lethal intent. In some cases, the use ends up being lethal. Had they zapped the kid even once more after he hit the ground, I'd side with you on excessive force, but the article doesn't mention that, so we don't know.

People have died from beanbag rounds.
People have died from rubber bullets.

How much you want to bet that as soon as a cop had taken "Reefa" down that someone would have been screaming police brutality?

Cops have a tough job. Sometimes, it's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" job. There is an investigation. A report will be made. We'll know why the kid died from the tazer (if there was a medical condition present that was exacerbated by the tazer or not).




DesideriScuri -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 10:31:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Know what the tragedy is?
Now his friends can be charged with homicide.

Explain, please. Did I miss something?

In Florida, if someone dies during the commission of a crime, any accomplices can be charged with the death as they contributed to the actions.


Thank you.




Winterapple -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 10:58:09 AM)

He should have just given himself up peacefully to the
police. But I imagine there was some young male bravado
coming into play and a bit of showing off for his friends.
I don't think bravado and showing off for friends was missing
in the policemen's actions either.

I think it's tragic the boy is dead. I don't this was a situation
where anyone needed to die. I don't think the boy was the
only one who showed poor judgement.




igor2003 -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 11:02:59 AM)

quote:

Franchised owners dont tend to shut down their business, especially one like McDs.. it is usually the company owned ones that gets moved to a better location or shut down..


Franchise owners that aren’t making money and continually do business in the red can and do shut down their business all the time.

quote:

Things like vandalism are part of doing business & tend to be calculated in already, just as the cost of insurance would be, just as the cost for any other maintenance would be, just as the cost of theft would be.. when was the last time McDs raised prices? its not usually cuz of a bit of graffiti, its usually cuz their costs for product and wages increase..


Yes, the cost of vandalism is part of doing business, and because of that the prices are what they are. I didn’t say that each and every time there is vandalism the cost of a Quarter Pounder goes up, did I? If there was NO vandalism EVER the cost of eating there, most likely, would be somewhat less. Probably only a few cents, if even that, but you and I, as consumers, are the ones paying that extra cost for the vandalism that the business has to deal with.

quote:

There are ways of reducing the opportunity for graffiti or any vandalism.. putting up a high fence.. planting prickly shrubs like barberry bushes against the building.. painting with anti-graffiti paint.. installing a $20 motion activated light.. signs that state the property is under video surveilance (even if thats not true), signs that say trespassers will be prosecuted (then actually doing that).. etc.. If you value your property you do these kinda things..


When the taggers were painting my garage, the garage was on the alley behind my house, with the garage doors opening onto the alley. No place for a “high fence”, “prickly shrubs”, or “barberry bushes” unless they blocked the garage doors. A motion activated light would be going on and off every time a car went down the alley, and every time a man, woman, child, dog, cat, or squirrel went by, which would constantly burn out bulbs, and provide light for would-be night time taggers since the area couldn’t be seen from the house. The wall and doors being painted were not viewable from the house. Video surveillance for a house and garage nearly 100 years old, for someone with a fairly low income, is prohibitively expensive. The people doing the tagging know it is illegal. Do you really think signs stating that trespassers will be prosecuted is going to slow them down? Seriously?

quote:

eta- re: the eyesore.. so you call up the city and they send a notice to the owner to clean it up or they will and send them the bill.. it no longer is an eyesore.. what i find as an eyesore are those homeowners, mechanics & business owners that dump drywall, reno garbage, old sofas, matresses, tires, etc along the road somewhere.. I see that quite frequently and much more than i see graffiti.


Yes, those things are definitely eyesores. But the topic of the moment is graffiti and tagging






pahunkboy -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 11:09:45 AM)

Yes, the cost of vandalism is part of doing business /snip


so are tazer deaths....




tj444 -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 11:22:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003

quote:

Franchised owners dont tend to shut down their business, especially one like McDs.. it is usually the company owned ones that gets moved to a better location or shut down..


Franchise owners that aren’t making money and continually do business in the red can and do shut down their business all the time.

quote:

Things like vandalism are part of doing business & tend to be calculated in already, just as the cost of insurance would be, just as the cost for any other maintenance would be, just as the cost of theft would be.. when was the last time McDs raised prices? its not usually cuz of a bit of graffiti, its usually cuz their costs for product and wages increase..


Yes, the cost of vandalism is part of doing business, and because of that the prices are what they are. I didn’t say that each and every time there is vandalism the cost of a Quarter Pounder goes up, did I? If there was NO vandalism EVER the cost of eating there, most likely, would be somewhat less. Probably only a few cents, if even that, but you and I, as consumers, are the ones paying that extra cost for the vandalism that the business has to deal with.

quote:

There are ways of reducing the opportunity for graffiti or any vandalism.. putting up a high fence.. planting prickly shrubs like barberry bushes against the building.. painting with anti-graffiti paint.. installing a $20 motion activated light.. signs that state the property is under video surveilance (even if thats not true), signs that say trespassers will be prosecuted (then actually doing that).. etc.. If you value your property you do these kinda things..


When the taggers were painting my garage, the garage was on the alley behind my house, with the garage doors opening onto the alley. No place for a “high fence”, “prickly shrubs”, or “barberry bushes” unless they blocked the garage doors. A motion activated light would be going on and off every time a car went down the alley, and every time a man, woman, child, dog, cat, or squirrel went by, which would constantly burn out bulbs, and provide light for would-be night time taggers since the area couldn’t be seen from the house. The wall and doors being painted were not viewable from the house. Video surveillance for a house and garage nearly 100 years old, for someone with a fairly low income, is prohibitively expensive. The people doing the tagging know it is illegal. Do you really think signs stating that trespassers will be prosecuted is going to slow them down? Seriously?

quote:

eta- re: the eyesore.. so you call up the city and they send a notice to the owner to clean it up or they will and send them the bill.. it no longer is an eyesore.. what i find as an eyesore are those homeowners, mechanics & business owners that dump drywall, reno garbage, old sofas, matresses, tires, etc along the road somewhere.. I see that quite frequently and much more than i see graffiti.


Yes, those things are definitely eyesores. But the topic of the moment is graffiti and tagging

of course any business can shut down, I was saying it was more likely a location owned by McDs directly.. and of course, who knows if it was a leased location owned by someone else.. the cost of tagging/vandalism is in the cost of burgers even if there is no actual vandalism or real cost.. so what? I go in to McDs knowing the price to me is $X and I decide if i want to pay that or not..

While you have had your experience with graffiti (you could still put up a cheap dummy camera and a Video Sureveilance sign for not much money) and see if that was enough of a deterrant.. but the topic of the moment is not your garage, it is a vacant McDs in which any of what i mentioned could easily be done...




tj444 -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 11:24:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Yes, the cost of vandalism is part of doing business /snip


so are tazer deaths....

are you saying McDs is gonna get sued?




Hillwilliam -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 11:30:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


of course any business can shut down, I was saying it was more likely a location owned by McDs directly.. and of course, who knows if it was a leased location owned by someone else.. the cost of tagging/vandalism is in the cost of burgers even if there is no actual vandalism or real cost.. so what? I go in to McDs knowing the price to me is $X and I decide if i want to pay that or not..

While you have had your experience with graffiti (you could still put up a cheap dummy camera and a Video Sureveilance sign for not much money) and see if that was enough of a deterrant.. but the topic of the moment is not your garage, it is a vacant McDs in which any of what i mentioned could easily be done...

Why should anyone have to spend any extra money so that special widdwe snowfwakes don't get hurt when they commit crimes?

How about this idea?

Don't commit crimes and you're likely to live longer.

Are we supposed to tattoo this inside every woman's uterus. "Warning little fetus, commiting criminal acts in the future could lead to your premature demise"

The ultimate warning label.[8|]




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