RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care?

RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (Full Version)

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[Poll]

19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care?

He got what he deserved

15% (14)

I would take him to Disneyland

2% (2)

Cops are a cold hearted SOB

20% (18)

I personally am sick of looking at grapiti

12% (11)

Outlaw tazers

13% (12)

More people ought to tag

3% (3)

I want to live in a slum

1% (1)

Kids will be kids

11% (10)

Regulate sales of paint

7% (7)

Buy that cop a beer!

11% (10)

Total Votes : 88

(last vote on : 8/16/2013 2:00:10 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

Message

thishereboi -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 5:21:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: papassion Probably some of the people who said, "If Zimmerman had only listened to the Police........," that incident would not have happened. Are the same people who are giving this kid a pass for NOT listening to the Police who ordered him to stop! I said if zimmy had stayed in his truck things the incident would not have happened. But I am not giving this kid a pass. Nice try on mind reading but don't quit your day job/

pahunkboy -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 5:38:54 PM)
I want to live in a slum 2% (1) LOL - I wonder who this was....

kdsub -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 6:46:10 PM)
What this boy did has nothing to do with prison terms are long sentences. It has nothing to do with the over reaction of the police. You are making more of this tragic accident then is there. Just because he may have talent does not give him the right to deface other people's property without the chance of arrest. There is nothing jack booted about trying to subdue him without injury. That is the very purpose of the taser. All he had to do was give up and in a few weeks or months he would have had to pay a fine or pick up trash off the road. But no he Forced them to subdue him and I do feel for that officer that will have that to remember the rest of his life. There is no fault with anyone but the kid first and parents second. This is another one of these preventable tragedies that no one comes out looking good. Butch

BamaD -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 6:50:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: B: You seem to feel he was an habitual criminal. (I do too) If vandalism is being a criminal then yes. As others have said it is not a capital offense....but... How many times have we read a news story where a child, and yes to me by his actions he was still a child, runs or fights with police and is killed or injured? His actions are the fault of being raised without the proper adult social nurturing or supervision. The police are not at fault....an 18year old uncooperative man can be a danger...even to multiple police. I'm sure they had no intent kill this child despite the high fives. As a police officer told me they are not required to give someone an even chance in an arrest... or risk injury. They have families they want to come home to as well. They were required to arrest this child like it or not. They would have much rather sat around eating donuts then to chase him down an arrest him... But it is their job...and an underappreciated one at that. Butch I'll agree with you on those points especially the "not required to give someone an even chance". That's why I taught some of them all those nasty, painful tricks. Give some one an even chance, see Jim Masterson

BamaD -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 6:54:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: Winterapple FR Miami will mercifully be able to sleep tonight now that this dangerous, hardened, master criminal has been taken down. High Five! An unarmed, scrawny teenager whose only brush with the law was a shoplifting offense. And they send 5 cops after a kid committing a nonviolent, victimless crime? Crime rate is that low in Miami these days? And in the end there was a victim. This boy wasn't a gang member or violent and the police knew that. It's all the more sad that the young man was talented, had goals and was trying to make something of his life. What I find sad is that same talented kid didn't have the sense to not run from cops. Then he would have had the opportunity. I also feel sorry for the cop who thought he was only stopping the kid and now has to live with the fact that he killed a kid. This is true even though the cop was clearly not trying to injure the kid, that is what the tazer is for.

pahunkboy -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 7:08:41 PM)
I am more bothered by the 95 year old the died from the bean bag gun.

Hillwilliam -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 7:11:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy I am more bothered by the 95 year old the died from the bean bag gun. I am as well

BamaD -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 7:58:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy I am more bothered by the 95 year old the died from the bean bag gun. I am as well Not at all familiar with this but on the surface it sounds real bad.

Winterapple -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 10:14:22 PM)
Respectfully, Butch please don't presume to set perimeters on how much I can make or not make about something. I'll return the curtesy. I know this boys story has nothing to do with prison terms and long sentences. My point (which I admit was muddled) had to do with attitudes about nonviolent crimes. Some people are going to factor in this was a nonviolent offense and be disturbed that it ended where it ended in a way they wouldn't be if it was armed robbery he was guilty of. I never said having talent meant he wasn't committing a crime or shouldn't be arrested for it. He was committing a crime and was wrong/ foolish to run from the police. But his having been an artist does shed some motivation on his actions. The things said about him in the article didn't make him sound like some anti social punk or an angry hood or habitual criminal. As I said I own a commercial property but I don't want anyone killed or injured for spray painting on it. Same way if I came home and someone was climbing out of my window stealing my TV set I wouldn't shoot them. I'm not killing someone over a TV set. The only things in my home that are irreplaceable have heartbeats. I realize other people think differently. I just can't work up much outrage over a boarded up McDonalds. Not when the defense of it ended with the death of a teenage boy.

Kirata -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/9/2013 10:20:18 PM)
Do I care? Well, I'm sorry he died of course. But on the other hand, he's better off than he would have been if I'd caught him spray-painting my car. [:)] K.

chatterbox24 -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/10/2013 2:47:53 AM)
HE was a mischievous kid, who didn't listen, and taunted the cops with his cat and mouse. No doubt in my mind they were mad. No doubt in my mind tagging is a problem, an inconvenience to the say the least. No doubt, he needed some correction. The punishment should fit the crime. I expect a broader wisdom and fairness base from our police officers. I don't think they meant to kill him, but they sure did. It was unnecessary force. That could have been my son, my nephew, my neighbor or my friends son. The ripple effect of his actions, the police actions, and the real victims of the death of their loved one is the saddest part. Make it personal and its a complete outrage.

Rule -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/10/2013 4:30:07 AM)
Some things are meant to be. The death was unfortunate and not intentional. This tagger made a lot of wrong choises - and he paid the price. May the God of the Dead reward him according to his merits.

pahunkboy -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/10/2013 4:31:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy I am more bothered by the 95 year old the died from the bean bag gun. I am as well Not at all familiar with this but on the surface it sounds real bad. quote: 95 year old the died from the bean bag gun http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2385926/War-veteran-John-Wrana-95-dies-police-shoot-Taser-bean-bag-rounds.html

vincentML -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/10/2013 5:19:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata Do I care? Well, I'm sorry he died of course. But on the other hand, he's better off than he would have been if I'd caught him spray-painting my car. [:)] How much worse off could he be? As an aside and more of an FR it is interesting to me that so many on this board who are civil libertarians when it comes to the perceived big brother conspiracies of the government will when given the opportunity become stern law n order types and applaud agents of that government killing a kid who was committing a misdemeanor crime and posed danger to no one. Fucking baffling.[:-]

kdsub -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/10/2013 5:43:38 AM)
With all due respect to you as well did you see the picture of this supposed artists work? Just because a crime is not violent does not make it any less a crime. Nothing turns a neighborhood into a slum quicker than graffiti. It is a terrible burden on property owners and destroys property values. It is a serious crime that needs even stronger penalties. What do you think would happen if police just stood by and let them do their damage? It would be different if the intent WAS to injure this child but it was not. The taser was a reasonable alternative than a combative arrest that could have injured police officers unnecessarily. This was a tragic accident but the fault does not lie with police or policy in my opinion anyway. Butch

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/10/2013 5:49:09 AM)
FR~ I think the whole problem with this debate is that some seem to think that the police used unnecessary force. From what I've read, he gave them a merry run for their money. He didn't put his hands up and say "fair cop" - he ran and played cat'n'mouse. They used a tazer gun - which is designed to be non-lethal and can be used at a short distance. I don't call that 'unnecessary force'. To me, that was probably the most sensible action to take. What happened afterwards appears to be nothing more than a tragic accident. The officers did nothing wrong or anything untowards. People seem to be putting far too much emphasis on police brutality - I didn't perceive any. Yes, it was a misdemeanor as crimes go. They dealt with it in the best possible way IMHO. If he hadn't died, he'd probably have got a fine or some community service, nothing more. As it happens, they now have to find out why he died from a supposedly non-lethal weapon. Just my [sm=2cents.gif]

eulero83 -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/10/2013 5:59:32 AM)
I really don't understand how the 95yo situation is different from this one, and just to say if I could choose between being tckled or tazed I'll go for the first one even for some of you is so much insensitive and dangerouse my [sm=2cents.gif]

Hillwilliam -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/10/2013 6:42:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 I really don't understand how the 95yo situation is different from this one, and just to say if I could choose between being tckled or tazed I'll go for the first one even for some of you is so much insensitive and dangerouse my [sm=2cents.gif] A 95 year old standing (or sitting as one account says) in a well lit room is a lot less likely to stick something lethal into your guts than an 18 year old who is running at you at night and will arrive in under a half second if you don't do something. As for being tackled, are you going to tackle someone who might be armed if you have a tazer? Remember the old adage about never giving the other guy an equal shot. People die that way. He made stupid decisions. He died because of them. It's called evolution in action.

pahunkboy -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/10/2013 6:50:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 I really don't understand how the 95yo situation is different from this one, and just to say if I could choose between being tckled or tazed I'll go for the first one even for some of you is so much insensitive and dangerouse my [sm=2cents.gif] The 95 year old was refusing medical treatment. Unless a judge orders you to treatment- you may deny and decline medical treatment- at least under PA 6400 regs. You have a right to refuse medications, and medical treatment. You do not have a right to destroy other people, or their property. Nursing home staff is trained to deal with aged. A cane, or show horn- per a 95 year old- when they are forcing him to to what he legally does not have to do is a problem. As you know- I am pretty much an activist. In my circle of friends- tho- many are decrying this tazer death. Freedom tho- does not mean you have the right to destroy property. I loath corporations and mcdonalds. But as a home owner- I loath tagger worse. This guys friends could commemorate his death by cleaning graphiti off of spaces. The comment about the officer- I am sure he regrets the death. LEOs have a high incidence of suicide. They see the worst in humanity. I am all for rights- but a person does not have the right to harm another, (to include the property) Smoking pot would have been a victimless crime. Tagging costs the entire community. I applaud Erie and their goal to seek a solution. My town has entertained the same idea- I am against it. Thats my opinion. One size does not fit all.

tj444 -> RE: 19 yr old tagger, tazed, died, do you care? (8/10/2013 7:10:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 supposedly non-lethal weapon. thats part of the problem.. those glossy brochures from tazer manufacturers.. if they simply said tasers were a lethal weapon the cops in the US & other countries wouldnt bother buying them cuz their guns fit that function quite well.. The ACLU does not consider tazers non-lethal.. "Tasers subject their victims to a 50,000 volt shock followed by 100 microsecond pulses of 1,200 volts. Since 2001, more than 500 people in the United States have died after law enforcement officers used this weapon against them. A study published this week by the American Heart Association’s Circulation Journal confirms that the misuse of a Taser can cause sudden cardiac arrest and death. " "In theory, a Taser is intended to serve as a non-lethal method of control for law enforcement officers when they need to physically restrain a dangerous person. But as the new Circulation study demonstrates, Tasers cannot so simply be categorized as “non-lethal.” In addition, there are far too many instances in which officers have impulsively deployed Tasers against children, pregnant women and the mentally ill, even though the victims posed no real danger to either the officers or anyone else." "Taser training materials are mostly provided by Taser International, the private company that makes the weapon. Relying on a private, for-profit company that has a vested interest in promoting and selling their product for training guidelines is not only nonsensical, but dangerous. " http://www.aclu.org/blog/criminal-law-reform/tasers-no-longer-non-lethal-alternative-law-enforcement

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