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st off you cannot logically claim demographics as the cause for a drop in crime unless it was the cause of the rise in the first place.
The rise in crime based on the baby boomers reaching the violence prone ages was predicted in the late sixties. This theory stated that there would be a steady and dramatic rise in crime as that group entered those ages, followed by a leveling of crime rates and then a rapid drop as the baby boomers aged.
That theory map the rise and fall of the crime rate very clearly and accurately.
The rise and fall of the crime rate has corresponded to the ageing of the baby boomers.
You cannot credit the drop to them moving out of the violence prone ages with blaming the rise on them entering the violence prone ages.
Anti gunners are happy to say that increased gun ownership a ccws are not a factor because of this but for some reason they cannot see that gun restrictions are equally a none factor.

P S
In this country places with cc laws have led the drop in crime, it may not be the reason but it sure hasn't hurt.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

If life on welfare is the bed of roses you make it out to be, I'd have thought that they get so much cash scamming welfare that they wouldn't have any need to resort to violent crime to get by ...... Perhaps all those drugs you tell us these welfare scammers are taking addles their brains and confuses them ....

Another point to consider is that it isn't cheap keeping all those Cadillacs on the road, is it?

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Improve yes but to think it is a claim that cc would eliminate crime is laughable

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Improve yes but to think it is a claim that cc would eliminate crime is laughable

You would like to think so.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

First off I used to work at NSA in the Middle East section so I am far more qualified to speak on that than most people.
Second anyone with half a brain would have figured out that my rouge cop post was pure sarcasm do suggestions that the tapes could have been faked or the rights of the attackers may have been violated. You mean that actually eluded you? how sad
third you have demonstrated that you lack the knowledge of anything but ridiculing your betters

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

So your abject ignorance of the subject at had is a sore point.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

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st off you cannot logically claim demographics as the cause for a drop in crime unless it was the cause of the rise in the first place.
The rise in crime based on the baby boomers reaching the violence prone ages was predicted in the late sixties. This theory stated that there would be a steady and dramatic rise in crime as that group entered those ages, followed by a leveling of crime rates and then a rapid drop as the baby boomers aged.
That theory map the rise and fall of the crime rate very clearly and accurately.
The rise and fall of the crime rate has corresponded to the ageing of the baby boomers.
You cannot credit the drop to them moving out of the violence prone ages with blaming the rise on them entering the violence prone ages.
Anti gunners are happy to say that increased gun ownership a ccws are not a factor because of this but for some reason they cannot see that gun restrictions are equally a none factor.

P S
In this country places with cc laws have led the drop in crime, it may not be the reason but it sure hasn't hurt.

I have no wish to get into a long discussion about this proposal. But there are some problems with the argument you have sketched (and I say sketched not demonstrated let alone proved). These include:
* There's no particular reason to assume that the reasons for the rises and falls in the crime rate were identical and the same;
* No identifiable cause and effect chain has been advanced in your post;
* A cite giving the original theory, it's date of publication and predictions would greatly strengthen your case;
* There are numerous other potential factors that the theory doesn't address or negate eg. greater prosperity, higher levels of education, smaller family sizes and changes in parents' child-rearing habits to list just a few. I imagine it would be relatively easy to construct a similar argument citing any or all of these factors as the causal factors - though, of course, such an argument would suffer from the same flaws .

Be that as it may, the idea of demographics triggering or partially triggering rises and falls in crime rates is not out of the question. It remains interesting speculation.

More importantly, we seem to agree that the changes in crime occurred independently of whatever gun laws were applicable. We also seem to agree that it's very difficult to draw any conclusions about the potential effects of changes in gun laws on the basis of these statistics. That would seem to make the gun laws discussion completely detached from discussion of these trends.

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ORIGINAL: joether

I'm just curious of something.

Chicago has unfortunately a number of people being killed and injured by firearms in a given month. An it is noted the city has some of the strictest gun laws on the books. Could any of the folks on here answer the following questions rationally and accurately?

A ) Many of the firearms found used in such crimes can be traced back to states with substantially less restrictive firearm laws than Chicago. How often in those states do they find a firearm that was registered in Chicago being part of a crime?

B ) Are conservatives REALLY dumb to think that Chicago exists in a vacuum? That absolutely nothing exists beyond the city's borders?

C ) Show me a city on planet Earth that had numerous firearms, very few if any laws on said arms, but no one being killed by them.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

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How does this all translate into more gun violence? The subculture of hopelessness is a haven for those who challenge the law as its written, because many see it as their way out or to get above the rest of the pack. Cops are reviled, while gang members are revered. They look down at people who want to get an education, call them "Uncle Toms", and some take perverse pride in not being educated. Why work hard in school and get good grades and a job where they'll have to work hard, when all you have to do is sit back, fake up some paperwork to get a check, and hang out on the porch drinking beer, smoking crack and pot, and making more babies?

If life on welfare is the bed of roses you make it out to be, I'd have thought that they get so much cash scamming welfare that they wouldn't have any need to resort to violent crime to get by ...... Perhaps all those drugs you tell us these welfare scammers are taking addles their brains and confuses them ....

Another point to consider is that it isn't cheap keeping all those Cadillacs on the road, is it?

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Many of the firearms found used in such crimes can be traced back to states with substantially less restrictive firearm laws than Chicago. How often in those states do they find a firearm that was registered in Chicago being part of a crime?

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Chicago has unfortunately a number of people being killed and injured by firearms in a given month. An it is noted the city has some of the strictest gun laws on the books.

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

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Chicago has unfortunately a number of people being killed and injured by firearms in a given month. An it is noted the city has some of the strictest gun laws on the books.

This raises the classic question of correlation vs. causation.

People who are undergoing chemotherapy are far more likely to have cancer than those who are not. Does that mean chemo causes cancer?

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People who have cancer are more likely to have chemo than those who don't

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taking away peoples rights is the cancer

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

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People who have cancer are more likely to have chemo than those who don't

Yes, that's an case of causation. Do we have evidence that the same relationship exists between Chicago's gun laws and its crime rate?

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taking away peoples rights is the cancer

Oh, dear God.

Did you actually turn a hideous disease that millions of us are battling into a pathetic, melodramatic throwaway line?

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You started us down that path, if you don't want to hear the answer don't ask the question.

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

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You started us down that path, if you don't want to hear the answer don't ask the question.

You know perfectly well that my causation/causality question has absolutely nothing to do with your cheap use of cancer as a talking point. And making excuses for it is even more despicable.

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You brought up cancer trying to score cheap point not my fault it was such an easy block.
I turned your point back on you be a man and admit it

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Hey jackass.com....... How ironic.

The idea that if people carried concealed weapons, Chicago`s violence would dissapear is laughable.