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RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/12/2013 1:12:39 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		To me it's astonishing to hear it said that the parents hadn't broken any laws.

There was a loaded gun within reach of a 3 year old. The inevitable tragedy ensued. Entirely predictable and entirely preventable. The parents have been punished in the most hurtful way imaginable and will have to live their lives knowing that their irresponsibility was the sole, direct cause of their child's death. It now turns out that (according to Edwynne), there was no danger in the park that necessitated a hand gun for protection - which makes the parents irresponsibility even more culpable.

I believe we have laws here that harshly penalise those who leave their weapons in dangerous or easily accessible situations such as this. If a tragedy like this occurred here, the parents would be pilloried from end of the country to the other. There would be a national outcry.

Perhaps Americans ought to consider similar legislation. This has nothing to do with gun control or the 2nd Amendment. It is about ensuring that tragedies like this do not re-occur. It is about ensuring that legally held weapons are stored safely beyond the easy reach of children or the bad guys.



< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 9/12/2013 1:13:03 AM >

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(in reply to Edwynn)
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RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/12/2013 1:13:59 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

The point you you are completely missing is that none of society want's any of this crap in public, so, just keep them in your house!

I've met a few birds whose wild imaginings were flagrantly out of touch with reality. But except for those confined to an institution, they had enough sense to avoid being branded a liar or a crackpot by keeping their mouth shut. That's not to suggest, of course, that you don't have that much sense. But unless 41 of our state legislatures have been taken over by gun-loving aliens with mind-bending superpowers, you are obviously wrong.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 9/12/2013 1:18:30 AM >

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/12/2013 1:24:08 AM   
Edwynn


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You got me there.

Everybody, I mean everybody, wants as many guns as possible in public, especially in the the bars and in the public parks, and on the buses and trains, and in the national forests, for purpose of protecting themselves against the utter nutcases who would be insane enough to do actually that, because of the laws allowing utter nutcases to now carry their guns wherever they like.

I totally missed the freedom and enhanced feeling of security from that. Thanks for pointing it out.

I don't care if I had the best AK-47 on me at all times, I know that there are other AK-47 carriers, and maybe some of their kids, doing the same, all around me.

I can't tell you how much safer the kids and I feel right now.







< Message edited by Edwynn -- 9/12/2013 1:36:21 AM >

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/12/2013 1:45:06 AM   
Kirata


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Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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I can't help but think that some of the people who were in a certain theater in Colorado, or a certain subway car in New York to mention just two examples, might have found themselves reconsidering the potential benefit of having a law-abiding citizen among them who was carrying a weapon and knew how to use it.

Have you ever considered the possibility that people may have legitimate reasons for holding views that differ from your own?

K.








< Message edited by Kirata -- 9/12/2013 1:53:40 AM >

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/12/2013 1:46:44 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

I can't tell you how much safer the kids and I feel right now.


And yet, you won't accept My offer.


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(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/12/2013 1:55:16 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


You got me there.

Everybody, I mean everybody, wants as many guns as possible in public, especially in the the bars and in the public parks, and on the buses and trains, and in the national forests, for purpose of protecting themselves against the utter nutcases who would be insane enough to do actually that, because of the laws allowing utter nutcases to now carry their guns wherever they like.

I totally missed the freedom and enhanced feeling of security from that. Thanks for pointing it out.

I don't care if I had the best AK-47 on me at all times, I know that there are other AK-47 carriers, and maybe some of their kids, doing the same, all around me.

I can't tell you how much safer the kids and I feel right now.







I agree that firearms should not be allowed in bars.
Guns and booze mix as well as cars and booze.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/12/2013 1:58:58 AM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

I can't tell you how much safer the kids and I feel right now.


And yet, you won't accept My offer.




Don't diss me on my current penury in my inability to get myself to Alaska at your bidding.

I'd love to go there.

If you pay for the travel and the accommodations, then you are welcome to prove your point by that way.
You know to C mail in that event, I presume.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/12/2013 2:01:33 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

Do you ever consider how easy it is for nutcases to get ahold of guns?

Have you ever considered directing your outrage at the shameful the way our revolving-door justice system returns violent felons to the streets, instead of going after the rights of law-abiding citizens?

If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of constitutional privilege." ~Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

K.

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/12/2013 2:06:40 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


I can't help but think that some of the people who were in a certain theater in Colorado, or a certain subway car in New York to mention just two examples, might have found themselves reconsidering the potential benefit of having a law-abiding citizen among them who was carrying a weapon and knew how to use it.

Have you ever considered the possibility that people may have legitimate reasons for holding views that differ from your own?

K.



Care to explain how that would have been any use to those in the theatre hit by bullets coming through the walls ?

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/12/2013 2:07:06 AM   
Kirata


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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I agree that firearms should not be allowed in bars.
Guns and booze mix as well as cars and booze.







Attachment (1)

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/12/2013 2:43:56 AM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Have you ever considered directing your outrage at the shameful the way our revolving-door justice system returns violent felons to the streets, instead of going after the rights of law-abiding citizens?

If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of constitutional privilege." ~Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

K.


The 'outrage' went out the window long ago.

It's now just a matter of utter perplexity, but then I'm working on that, too.

The perplexity of the notion that had we just handed out enough guns and ammo to the theater goers in Denver as a matter of course, along with their popcorn, or had armed six yr. olds with appropriate armaments and ordnance in that elementary school, then tragedy could have been prevented, and by that expedient alone.

Except that the clear implication is that we now have to supply all theater goers and all six yr. olds with guns and ammo for any regular day's course of events.

That would be phenomenally expensive, and given the simple economics in that, 90% of theaters and schools are now not a part of any future society.

Oh joy.


(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/12/2013 2:59:50 AM   
Kirata


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Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Care to explain how that would have been any use to those in the theatre hit by bullets coming through the walls ?

Certainly. I'm always glad to help those who are challenged. The answer is to your question is, bullets would have stopped coming through the walls. The possibly obscure consequence of this is that those who were hit would not be hit again, and those who had not yet been hit would remain unscathed.

Thanks for asking. Feel free anytime!

K.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/12/2013 3:13:11 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

The perplexity of the notion that had we just handed out enough guns and ammo to the theater goers in Denver as a matter of course, along with their popcorn, or had armed six yr. olds with appropriate armaments and ordnance in that elementary school, then tragedy could have been prevented...

Persisting in these kinds of misrepresentations is both intellectually and ethically dishonest. Get over yourself.

K.

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 153
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/12/2013 3:25:20 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Care to explain how that would have been any use to those in the theatre hit by bullets coming through the walls ?

Certainly. I'm always glad to help those who are challenged. The answer is to your question is, bullets would have stopped coming through the walls. The possibly obscure consequence of this is that those who were hit would not be hit again, and those who had not yet been hit would remain unscathed.

Thanks for asking. Feel free anytime!

K.



Your snide remark about me being challenged (Bolded) is duly noted.

Your glib answer rather evades my question though. Since several of those killed or injured in the theatre were hit by bullets coming through the walls, what makes you think they would have been safer if armed ? The fact trained Police officers managed to shoot several bystanders in New York, doent exactly point to who knows how many people letting off bullets in a crowded theatre ending in similar carnage. You assume, or should that be suspect, that a similar occurance would not have occured in this case.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/12/2013 3:36:15 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Your snide remark about me being challenged (Bolded) is duly noted.

I'm glad you noticed, because your question implied that I must be "challenged," as does your present continuation of that theme.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Since several of those killed or injured in the theatre were hit by bullets coming through the walls, what makes you think they would have been safer if armed ?

I didn't say that I thought having someone armed in another theater would have been of any benefit.

When you're prepared to engage in an honest exchange and drop the supercilious attitude that has characterized your questions so far, I'll stop handing it back to you. In the meantime, quit whining about getting what you give.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 9/12/2013 3:41:24 AM >

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/12/2013 4:04:14 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Your snide remark about me being challenged (Bolded) is duly noted.

I'm glad you noticed, because your question implied that I must be "challenged," as does your present continuation of that theme.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Since several of those killed or injured in the theatre were hit by bullets coming through the walls, what makes you think they would have been safer if armed ?

I didn't say that I thought having someone armed in another theater would have been of any benefit.

When you're prepared to engage in an honest exchange and drop the supercilious attitude that has characterized your questions so far, I'll stop handing it back to you. In the meantime, quit whining about getting what you give.

K.


"Honest debate" "Supercilious attitiude"......... Thats a stunning use of irony right there.

My original question assumes nothing. It asserts, correctly, that people the other side of walls were indeed killed. It also asserts, correctly, that if they had been armed, they would still have been shot. Its noticable that you still avoid my point. Others killed on that day were in the same complex, not "Another theatre"..... They were killed and injured by the same perp you are referring to. As with most gun threads those who dont like my replies resort to smoke, mirrors, slight of hand and passive aggresive posts.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/12/2013 4:26:20 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

My original question assumes nothing. It asserts, correctly, that people the other side of walls were indeed killed. It also asserts, correctly, that if they had been armed, they would still have been shot.

Your original question implied that I must be stupid enough to imagine that having someone armed in the other theater would have been of benefit. And in repeating the question you made explicit both that assumption and your dishonesty in attributing such a notion to me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Its noticable that you still avoid my point. Others killed on that day were in the same complex, not "Another theatre".....

You don't have a point. The complex, as is the case with many today, housed more than one theater. That's why it's called a complex. See how that works? The people who were injuring by bullets coming through the wall were in a different theater in the complex.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

As with most gun threads those who dont like my replies resort to smoke, mirrors, slight of hand and passive aggresive posts.

I think it fairly clear where the "smoke, mirrors, slight of hand and passive agressive posts" are coming from.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 9/12/2013 4:35:43 AM >

(in reply to Politesub53)
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RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/12/2013 4:43:35 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

I can't help but think that some of the people who were in a certain theater in Colorado, or a certain subway car in New York to mention just two examples, might have found themselves reconsidering the potential benefit of having a law-abiding citizen among them who was carrying a weapon and knew how to use it.


This is pure conjecture.

Neither you, I nor any one else has any way of knowing what might have happened in the circumstances you outline. It is delusory to think one can.

At best it's wishful thinking after the fact. We're all geniuses when we have the benefit of hindsight. But this kind of speculation is useless for planning for the present or the future

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RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/12/2013 4:52:43 AM   
Edwynn


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Joined: 10/26/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

When you're prepared to engage in an honest exchange ....



Oh please ...

We are all just going by your 'standards,' such as they are, in that regard.

You claim that if theater goers in Denver had only been well armed enough then things would have turned out for the better.


That's as dishonest as it gets.






< Message edited by Edwynn -- 9/12/2013 4:57:07 AM >

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 159
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/12/2013 4:59:49 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

I can't help but think that some of the people who were in a certain theater in Colorado, or a certain subway car in New York to mention just two examples, might have found themselves reconsidering the potential benefit of having a law-abiding citizen among them who was carrying a weapon and knew how to use it.


This is pure conjecture... At best it's wishful thinking

To dismiss as "pure conjecture" and "wishful thinking" the common sense observation that an incident in which helpless people were shot like fish in a barrel would be likely to have had a different outcome if one or more of them had been armed is the height of agenda-driven double-speak.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 9/12/2013 5:00:18 AM >

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 160
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