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RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment ***


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RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/3/2013 7:29:17 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Being condescenting is one thing, being ignorant is another, but it is inadvisable to be both, and offensive to be proud of it.



Oh for God's sake, K - that's so rich coming from you you ought to be a millionaire!

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RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/3/2013 7:32:55 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
I notice you weren't willing to address any of the other questions, Peon. Shall we just check off, "no," for each, and add that in addition to never having heard a gunshot, encountering situations where the sounds of gunshots, or the simple presence of a firearm might be completely appropriate?


Check the 'ETA' of my last post, Rich.

Actually, I *do* think there are situations where having a gun is quite appropriate. Personally, I'm not somebody who'd be happy wandering around the Alaskan outback without some sort of weapon that could deal with a bear, for instance. But my main concern is about humans and how they deal with each other in the context of firearms.

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RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/3/2013 7:39:48 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
They are European and thus culturally superior.


It cracks me up that certain Yanks think that if they say things like that often enough and loudly enough, we Europeans will end up actually feeling guilty about how we treat Americans

What a crock I am aware that you(y'all not the singular you) will never feel guilty about trying to educate your inferiors

< Message edited by BamaD -- 10/3/2013 7:41:14 PM >

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 143
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/3/2013 7:43:58 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Being condescenting is one thing, being ignorant is another, but it is inadvisable to be both, and offensive to be proud of it.

Oh for God's sake, K - that's so rich coming from you you ought to be a millionaire!

I'm always pleased to contribute to your amusment. It seems to bring out the best in you.

K.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/3/2013 7:49:27 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
What a crock I am aware that you(y'all not the singular you) will never feel guilty about trying to educate your inferiors


Whatever. This Brits-superior/Americans -inferior thing is an utter dead end.

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Profile   Post #: 145
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/3/2013 8:01:55 PM   
metamorfosis


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
What qualifies you though, to pass judgement on people whose lives and culture are different from your own?


You might as well ask, what qualifies anyone to pass judgement on anything? My answer: being human. I didn't know a person needed greater credentials than that to make use of their own judgement and reason.


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Pam (aka gungadin09)

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Profile   Post #: 146
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/3/2013 8:04:09 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
What a crock I am aware that you(y'all not the singular you) will never feel guilty about trying to educate your inferiors


Whatever. This Brits-superior/Americans -inferior thing is an utter dead end.

And you are the most reasonable European on here.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/3/2013 8:05:57 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis

You might as well ask, what qualifies anyone to pass judgement on anything? My answer: being human. I didn't know a person needed greater credentials than that to make use of their own judgement and reason.

Certainly you can pass judgment on anything you like. But if you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, the consequences are unlikely to be congenial.

K.




< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/3/2013 8:06:34 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 148
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/3/2013 8:11:44 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Personally, I'm not somebody who'd be happy wandering around the Alaskan outback without some sort of weapon that could deal with a bear, for instance.



Wow. What a stunningly ignorant remark, even given the ignorance you are already proclaiming your pride in. You think we need to go to Alaska to find dangerous wildlife?

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Profile   Post #: 149
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/3/2013 8:27:56 PM   
BamaD


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Status: offline 		This is because, I'd guess, we just don't understand how you could possibly want to organise a society the way you do. It looks alien to us. Perverted, actually.

The average American view of guns looks nothing short of disgusting to most members of most First World countries. I mean that.


How can you make a comment like this and then expect us to not believe that you think you are better than we are?

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/3/2013 10:02:51 PM   
metamorfosis


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Certainly you can pass judgment on anything you like. But if you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, the consequences are unlikely to be congenial.

K.


Well then, speaking from my own ignorant perspective: I hate the gun culture of the United States, and don't blame anyone else for feeling the same way, regardless of their nationality.

I have a roommate who keeps guns for "protection against wildlife", and another friend who keeps loaded guns lying all over the house where his grandkids play. I'm far more worried about the misuse of those guns than about anything they might be used to protect against.

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Pam (aka gungadin09)

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Profile   Post #: 151
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/3/2013 10:09:12 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis

I have a roommate who keeps guns for "protection against wildlife"... I'm far more worried about the misuse of those guns than about anything they might be used to protect against.

Really? And you say you're living with this person??

(the other guy is an asshole)

K.

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Profile   Post #: 152
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/3/2013 10:10:33 PM   
metamorfosis


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Status: offline 		Moving next week.

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Profile   Post #: 153
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/4/2013 2:31:11 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Personally, I'm not somebody who'd be happy wandering around the Alaskan outback without some sort of weapon that could deal with a bear, for instance.



Wow. What a stunningly ignorant remark, even given the ignorance you are already proclaiming your pride in. You think we need to go to Alaska to find dangerous wildlife?



How you can draw that implication from what I said flabbergasts me, Rich. Unless you're stunningly ignorant of the English language.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 10/4/2013 2:37:02 AM >

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RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/4/2013 2:36:48 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

"This is because, I'd guess, we just don't understand how you could possibly want to organise a society the way you do. It looks alien to us. Perverted, actually.

The average American view of guns looks nothing short of disgusting to most members of most First World countries. I mean that."


How can you make a comment like this and then expect us to not believe that you think you are better than we are?


Oh for fuck's sake. Believe it, or don't believe it. Like I said, I'm not going to argue about this Europeans superior/ Americans inferior thing, Bama. It's a waste of time.

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Profile   Post #: 155
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/4/2013 3:47:47 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Oh for fuck's sake. Believe it, or don't believe it.

You can't be serious. You offer no support for your claim. You obviously haven't interviewed the populations of the planet's First World nations. And you are ostentatiously biased. Only a fucking idiot would take your word for anything on this topic.

K.





< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/4/2013 4:03:16 AM >

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/4/2013 4:12:30 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Oh for fuck's sake. Believe it, or don't believe it.

You can't be serious. You offer no support for your claim. You obviously haven't interviewed the entire populations of the planet's First World nations. And you are unashamedly biased. Only a fucking idiot would take your word for anything on this topic.

K.






How many countries in the First World can you cite that have moved towards the USA's policy on gun ownership rather than (even further) away from it? In all the time I've been posting on CM I've only noticed one, just one, British poster who's liked the US freedom in regards to guns and wanted the same for the UK. (And I may add that the American gun-supporters thought this one person was a complete dickhead, IIRC.)

Seriously, K, I look at certain Americans talking about, say, armed guards in schools, or carrying weapons into church services . . . and, now, I'm honestly getting to the point of disbelief. Guns are symbols of violence and killing. How can it be psychologically, socially or ethically healthy to have young kids exposed to their presence in the very places that are supposed to give them their first lessons about how to live and what the good society is about? And guns in churches? Is anyone really surprised that a lot of people are going to find this idea utterly contradictory to something fundamental in Christianity?



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Profile   Post #: 157
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/4/2013 4:19:18 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Guns are symbols of violence and killing.

That's what they symbolize to you.

My objection is to your insistence that that's what they symbolize period.

K.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/4/2013 5:35:01 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Guns are symbols of violence and killing.

That's what they symbolize to you.

My objection is to your insistence that that's what they symbolize period.

K.

I would think anyone living in any country not adversely populated with guns, and even many that are, would hold this PoV.

To think otherwise would be a tad blinkered, don't you think??

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Profile   Post #: 159
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/4/2013 5:36:54 AM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

And guns in churches? Is anyone really surprised that a lot of people are going to find this idea utterly contradictory to something fundamental in Christianity?



Not surprising at all. There are those who will find such a statement, couched in this manner, "guns in churches?", as contradictory to [fundamental Christianity].

What's interesting, and as Kirata points out here,

quote:

Peon - Guns are symbols of violence and killing.

Kirata - That's what they symbolize to you.
My objection is to your insistence that that's what they symbolize period.


is your presumed correctness as to your opinion where there's a hell of a lot of people who'll disagree with you.

Me, for one.



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Profile   Post #: 160
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