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RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/11/2013 3:58:07 PM

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

Yes!! That's precisely what I'm saying.

Not so. You said just the opposite just a few pages back.

In a single-payer system, the physicians and staff are paid a set salary for the hours they work, not per patient visit.

Kinda like the person who manufactures microscopes or jet aircraft....how is that a problem?

So it doesn't matter to them if they do nothing all day or get flooded with patients all day - they are paid the same salary.

How does a health care provider do nothing all day? Are we sugesting that sickness takes a holiday.
By the same token does a firefighter who sits on his ass all day (because there are no fires and no fire trucks to wash)offend you to the same leve as a health care provider having nothing to do all day for lack of sick people?

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 10/11/2013 4:08:56 PM >

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/11/2013 8:52:17 PM

NoBimbosAllowed

Posts: 1450
Joined: 9/19/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: NoBimbosAllowed
If someone had to resort to threats or insults against another poster's family,
If someone could read and understand english they would know who gratutitously injected their family into the discussion.
If someone could read and understand english they would know that no threat or insult was posted.
and those posts got pulled, it would be ample proof that the person's arguments held no water.
No, that would be ample proof that the mods felt it was inappropriate.
Like someone pulling a rusty switchblade during a regional political debate.
They'd lose immediately by dint of such an action.
That would be faulty analogy...
all of which is off topic

Just an FYI, my mentioning my son in no way allows the comment made. The fact that the insult was made is a demonstration of a person who merits none of my attention.

And, another FYI, I did not report anything. I simply used the "hide" feature. Someone else may have reported the post, or the mods saw it on their own.

Annnnnnd once again a far-right person wants to evade a direct question by saying that the question doesn't apply (like asswipes from Bernie Mac did when under congressional questioning for wrong-doing). Sorry buddy, but if I talk about a socialized medical system dealing with conditions which cannot be blamed upon the sufferer, which are debilitating, like cancer and MS and diabetes, comments regarding these are COMPLETELY germane to any notion of Obamacare and asking places like Canada etc. what they think of it. The questions I posed weher COMPLETELY on topic because of the reason why socialized medicine is CREATED: empathy.

Anyone who cowardly attempts to discredit someone asking a question involving empathy, to avoid answering on the subject of empathetic medical response, has no empathy. And getting uppity and getting testy in their reply does not make their reply anly less cowardly, and said reply is the anthesis of 'brave' or 'tough' . And obviously if my grasp of english is so poor as per your gutless excuse to avoid the question, you'll have nothing to respond to. But since you wanted to get ugly in your language and insult my use of english, I am free to say that such a reply might be expected from someone whom has worked very hard to use a user-pic which appears to be the ventriloquist dummy for The Kingpin from the Spiderman and Daredevil franchises.

The fact that you, yourself, HAVE no empathy means you are in fact hoist by your own petard, RE saying anything pertinent to this topic and thread. It's about a development of medicine borne of empathy, and the fact that you cannot exhibit any empathy in any of your posts means that any point you make in your posts here are the equivalent of a colour-blind quarterback claiming the right to be an Art Critic for the works of Monet, Van Gogh and the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers.

You can't see the colours. Talk about some other topic until you can.

The predominant colour in any thread about Canadian Medicine or similar medical systems is Empathy. You can't see that colour, but your hearing is still okay.

So buy a new stereo instead of yelling at the art gallery.

_____________________________

It's all about the curvature of the female azzzzzzzzzzz, meaning Niki Minaj and Serena Williams and Kate Cerebrano, NEVER Kylie Minogue! Wooden Spoons and Ottoman scenes from Story of O, baby dolls!

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/12/2013 6:53:03 AM

Posts: 409
Joined: 11/3/2009
From: [email protected]
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

They may also sell-off government subsidised enterprises, like our Royal Mail postal system so they get the revenue from the sale of shares and no longer have to further subsidise that enterprise.

Just for accuracy, as a sideline: the Royal Mail was not subsidised, on the contrary, it has been making a healthy profit for some years (which, of course, went to bring down the deficit.) In strict business terms, selling off one of the few profit-making parts of the state at a massive loss (shares have already doubled in price) makes Gordon Brown's fire-sale of our gold reserves look like brilliant management.

Basically, they're just stealing what they can before they get thrown out.

_____________________________

Leo9

Gonna pack in my hand, pick up on a piece of land and build myself a cabin in the woods.
It's there I'm gonna stay, until there comes a day when this old world starts a-changing for the good.
- James Taylor

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/12/2013 7:03:33 AM

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

So on 26K, you'd be taxed around £3,200 in PAYE tax plus £1,376 in NI.
The rest is all yours to spend.

So at $1.60 against the pound . . .

$41,600 in the door.
$5120 PAYE
$2201.6 NI

or 17.6% of the gross con toto.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to leonine)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/12/2013 7:05:02 AM

Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NoBimbosAllowed
quote]ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: NoBimbosAllowed
If someone had to resort to threats or insults against another poster's family,
If someone could read and understand english they would know who gratutitously injected their family into the discussion.
If someone could read and understand english they would know that no threat or insult was posted.
and those posts got pulled, it would be ample proof that the person's arguments held no water.
No, that would be ample proof that the mods felt it was inappropriate.
Like someone pulling a rusty switchblade during a regional political debate.
They'd lose immediately by dint of such an action.
That would be faulty analogy...
all of which is off topic

Just an FYI, my mentioning my son in no way allows the comment made. The fact that the insult was made is a demonstration of a person who merits none of my attention.
And, another FYI, I did not report anything. I simply used the "hide" feature. Someone else may have reported the post, or the mods saw it on their own.

Annnnnnd once again a far-right person wants to evade a direct question by saying that the question doesn't apply (like asswipes from Bernie Mac did when under congressional questioning for wrong-doing). Sorry buddy, but if I talk about a socialized medical system dealing with conditions which cannot be blamed upon the sufferer, which are debilitating, like cancer and MS and diabetes, comments regarding these are COMPLETELY germane to any notion of Obamacare and asking places like Canada etc. what they think of it. The questions I posed weher COMPLETELY on topic because of the reason why socialized medicine is CREATED: empathy.
Anyone who cowardly attempts to discredit someone asking a question involving empathy, to avoid answering on the subject of empathetic medical response, has no empathy. And getting uppity and getting testy in their reply does not make their reply anly less cowardly, and said reply is the anthesis of 'brave' or 'tough' . And obviously if my grasp of english is so poor as per your gutless excuse to avoid the question, you'll have nothing to respond to. But since you wanted to get ugly in your language and insult my use of english, I am free to say that such a reply might be expected from someone whom has worked very hard to use a user-pic which appears to be the ventriloquist dummy for The Kingpin from the Spiderman and Daredevil franchises.
The fact that you, yourself, HAVE no empathy means you are in fact hoist by your own petard, RE saying anything pertinent to this topic and thread. It's about a development of medicine borne of empathy, and the fact that you cannot exhibit any empathy in any of your posts means that any point you make in your posts here are the equivalent of a colour-blind quarterback claiming the right to be an Art Critic for the works of Monet, Van Gogh and the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers.
You can't see the colours. Talk about some other topic until you can.
The predominant colour in any thread about Canadian Medicine or similar medical systems is Empathy. You can't see that colour, but your hearing is still okay.
So buy a new stereo instead of yelling at the art gallery.

I have absolutely no idea what this stream of words has to do with the post responded to.

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to NoBimbosAllowed)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/12/2013 7:09:29 AM

Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
The first £10k is tax free. An extra £3k~ish if you're married.
The remainder is taxed at about 20% plus 8.something NI (8.6%?? not sure).
So on 26K, you'd be taxed around £3,200 in PAYE tax plus £1,376 in NI.
The rest is all yours to spend.

Thank you.

Only those making less than £10k are exempt from NI, or are there other exemptions?

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/12/2013 7:16:08 AM

susie

Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
The first £10k is tax free. An extra £3k~ish if you're married.
The remainder is taxed at about 20% plus 8.something NI (8.6%?? not sure).
So on 26K, you'd be taxed around £3,200 in PAYE tax plus £1,376 in NI.
The rest is all yours to spend.

Thank you.

Only those making less than £10k are exempt from NI, or are there other exemptions?

National Insurance can be a bit complicated as there are various rates and levels that it is paid at. Both employee and employer make contributions to NI. The link below shows what an employee would pay.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ni/intro/basics.htm#4

< Message edited by susie -- 10/12/2013 7:19:22 AM >

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/12/2013 7:18:46 AM

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

OH, that is bloody gruesome, that site is. You would have to be conversant with many idioms of the UK to slosh around in there.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 10/12/2013 7:19:19 AM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to susie)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/12/2013 7:29:58 AM

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

they call it gobbledeygook for a reason

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/12/2013 7:37:37 AM

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: leonine
Just for accuracy, as a sideline: the Royal Mail was not subsidised, on the contrary, it has been making a healthy profit for some years (which, of course, went to bring down the deficit.) In strict business terms, selling off one of the few profit-making parts of the state at a massive loss (shares have already doubled in price) makes Gordon Brown's fire-sale of our gold reserves look like brilliant management.

Basically, they're just stealing what they can before they get thrown out.

Try reading this : http://www.royalmailgroup.com/sites/default/files/RMG%20FULL%20YEAR%20RESULTS%20STATEMENT%202012.pdf

Healthy profit for some years???
From their own 2012 statement -
"UKPIL returned to operating profit after modernisation costs1 of £23 million from a loss of £120 million in 2011."
They have only very recently returned to profit and even then only up to 2.2% from 0.4%.
And... the only reason for that was the recent price hikes in postage costs and getting ready for the sell-off.

(in reply to leonine)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/12/2013 7:46:20 AM

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
The first £10k is tax free. An extra £3k~ish if you're married.
The remainder is taxed at about 20% plus 8.something NI (8.6%?? not sure).
So on 26K, you'd be taxed around £3,200 in PAYE tax plus £1,376 in NI.
The rest is all yours to spend.

Thank you.

Only those making less than £10k are exempt from NI, or are there other exemptions?

Anyone earning less than the tax threshhold is not taxed at all (NI is a form of tax).

Each person has what they call a 'personal allowance', usually £10K for adults althought there are additional allowances you can claim for for (eg: married allowance and others). This is what you are allowed to earn without paying a single red cent in any form of taxes.

As far as I'm aware, for joe average, there are no more exemptions. However, for those self-employed, I know you can write-off certain costs towards your tax allowance such as tools of your trade etc so you end up paying even less tax.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/12/2013 7:51:06 AM

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

I think we call your allowances standard deductions here. . .

If you are married filing jointly . . . x number of bucks
If you are married filing separately y number of bucks.
If you are single . . .

and same with the tax table end of it as well.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/12/2013 7:55:30 AM

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
The first £10k is tax free. An extra £3k~ish if you're married.
The remainder is taxed at about 20% plus 8.something NI (8.6%?? not sure).
So on 26K, you'd be taxed around £3,200 in PAYE tax plus £1,376 in NI.
The rest is all yours to spend.

Thank you.

Only those making less than £10k are exempt from NI, or are there other exemptions?

National Insurance can be a bit complicated as there are various rates and levels that it is paid at. Both employee and employer make contributions to NI. The link below shows what an employee would pay.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ni/intro/basics.htm#4

We are talking about Joe Average doing a normal job earning a nominal wage that falls within the usual and accepted limits (£10k-£41k).
Just like any other country, there are going to be all sorts of stupid complications within the tax system that don't apply to Joe Average wage earner or being self employed etc; that's why I kept it simple.

(in reply to susie)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/12/2013 8:18:30 AM

Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
The first £10k is tax free. An extra £3k~ish if you're married.
The remainder is taxed at about 20% plus 8.something NI (8.6%?? not sure).
So on 26K, you'd be taxed around £3,200 in PAYE tax plus £1,376 in NI.
The rest is all yours to spend.

Thank you.
Only those making less than £10k are exempt from NI, or are there other exemptions?

Anyone earning less than the tax threshhold is not taxed at all (NI is a form of tax).
Each person has what they call a 'personal allowance', usually £10K for adults althought there are additional allowances you can claim for for (eg: married allowance and others). This is what you are allowed to earn without paying a single red cent in any form of taxes.
As far as I'm aware, for joe average, there are no more exemptions. However, for those self-employed, I know you can write-off certain costs towards your tax allowance such as tools of your trade etc so you end up paying even less tax.

So, roughly, $16k (US) isn't taxable for a single individual. Above that is taxed around 8%.

Thans

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/12/2013 8:38:10 AM

Posts: 409
Joined: 11/3/2009
From: [email protected]
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Only those making less than £10k are exempt from NI, or are there other exemptions?

Anyone earning less than the tax threshhold is not taxed at all (NI is a form of tax).

To be precise about NI, you can choose to pay it or not below a certain income level, but there are consequences. Because I've been opting out for years, I almost lost my entitlement to a state pension (scraped through because they counted my late wife's NI record,) and if I quit working I couldn't get unemployment pay. Last remnants of its "insurance" function.

NI was originally a political fudge, a tax that wasn't a tax, and it still messes up the tax system. Thank gods they've finally cut the pension system free of it, though too late to do me any good.

_____________________________

Leo9

Gonna pack in my hand, pick up on a piece of land and build myself a cabin in the woods.
It's there I'm gonna stay, until there comes a day when this old world starts a-changing for the good.
- James Taylor

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/12/2013 8:39:23 AM

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
The first £10k is tax free. An extra £3k~ish if you're married.
The remainder is taxed at about 20% plus 8.something NI (8.6%?? not sure).
So on 26K, you'd be taxed around £3,200 in PAYE tax plus £1,376 in NI.
The rest is all yours to spend.

Thank you.
Only those making less than £10k are exempt from NI, or are there other exemptions?

Anyone earning less than the tax threshhold is not taxed at all (NI is a form of tax).
Each person has what they call a 'personal allowance', usually £10K for adults althought there are additional allowances you can claim for for (eg: married allowance and others). This is what you are allowed to earn without paying a single red cent in any form of taxes.
As far as I'm aware, for joe average, there are no more exemptions. However, for those self-employed, I know you can write-off certain costs towards your tax allowance such as tools of your trade etc so you end up paying even less tax.

So, roughly, $16k (US) isn't taxable for a single individual. Above that is taxed around 8%.

Thans

In theory, yes.
The blurb says that above the taxable threshhold its about 20% actual Pay-As-You-Earn tax and another 8.x% for NI.

Going back to something MN muttered about...
We don't usually 'file' tax returns as employees here - we are allocated our individual tax code at the beginning of the tax year (April 5th in UK) and the deductions are calculated and made by the employer, pro rata, at source.

So, back to your original average figure of £26k ($41,600), your tax and NI deductions of $7,321 would be calculated pro-rata and deducted as $610.08/month or $140.79/week.

Although I'd like to point out that figure of 'average' wages being £26.5k is a mean average whereas if you took a median figure it's more likely to be around £16k or less.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/12/2013 8:47:21 AM

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

No tax forms? That is bloody fookin' brill; that is. Although I imagine that self-employed or businesses would be a sticky wicket, or what you do for that?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/12/2013 8:50:58 AM

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: leonine
To be precise about NI, you can choose to pay it or not below a certain income level, but there are consequences...

NI was originally a political fudge, a tax that wasn't a tax, and it still messes up the tax system. Thank gods they've finally cut the pension system free of it, though too late to do me any good.

I have never ever throughout my whole working life ever been given a choice for NI except when I spent a few years as self-employed.

Now, as self-employed, yes, you do have the option to pay reduced NI and as you have found, it does have consequences.

As a normal PAYE employee, you don't get given that choice.
Below the threshhold, you don't pay it.
Above the threshhold, the employer is required by law to deduct at source.
The employee doesn't get to choose, the employer is governed by law whether to deduct it or not.

But as I said to susie, this is for Joe Average doing a normal job within the usual tax limits just to keep it simple.

(in reply to leonine)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/12/2013 9:04:56 AM

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

No tax forms? That is bloody fookin' brill; that is. Although I imagine that self-employed or businesses would be a sticky wicket, or what you do for that?

Yep. Joe Average here doesn't need to fill in any tax forms unless they are claiming something extra in allowances.

Self-employed isn't that difficult either - that's why you pay an accountant to do your books.
But, like any business, your tax returns and payments are usually annually, not pro-rata.
And, just to piss off a lot of people (especially those in the US), you can often find a qualified book-keeper to do those returns for you for as little as $50 a year - and that cost is tax deductable too!

When I was self-employed for about 6 years, it only cost me a pint and a meal at the local pub every year, about £7 ($11) in those days, to get all my books done and tax returns filed. And of course, the meal was completely deductable and no money changed hands.
She was a good fuck too!!

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/12/2013 7:34:04 PM

NoBimbosAllowed

Posts: 1450
Joined: 9/19/2013
Status: offline

"I have absolutely no idea what this stream of words has to do with the post responded to. "

yet I thought you'd hidden my posts. Hm.

your reply smacks of the absolute gutless wonder responses given by CEO's along the lines of "I don't recall", "I have no recollection of" and "That has nothing to do with my part in ---"

THE TITLE of the thread invites answers for " Canadians, Brits and any other citizen of a country with nationalize health care"

a large part of which is providing decent health care for people with HIV or full blown AIDS.

So any post you've made here, Kingpin, will be based on how you feel about monies derived from tax-payers being used to assist people with HIV or AIDS.

Do you support ANY medical system that takes even $15 a year from taxes garnered from you to extend the lives of people with HIV or AIDS, yes or no?

since you CLEARLY are not hiding or avoiding the posts?

_____________________________

It's all about the curvature of the female azzzzzzzzzzz, meaning Niki Minaj and Serena Williams and Kate Cerebrano, NEVER Kylie Minogue! Wooden Spoons and Ottoman scenes from Story of O, baby dolls!

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

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