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RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 10:17:41 AM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

In California even if you have a gun you have to make sure you can't use it.
Most states aren't that stupid.

so then we see that owning a gun is not a very good solution to protecting yourself from this rapist (who lives in CA)..

You have yet to come up with one thing to protect women except maybe don't resist.

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People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Post #: 181

RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 10:27:06 AM

lovmuffin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
News Flash: contrary to what most believe, the US has become a Police State (with its forfeiture laws, its illegal check stops, its invasive reporting of the population, with its spying on its people) than a democracy.. again, that is the America of today...

Congratulations for at least being the only one on the anti gun side making a logical point. Yet the point you make cuts both ways. It seems to me that a police state is a good reason to retain the right to bear arms. Why in the face of all the things you mention, and there are even more that you didn't mention, would it be such a great idea to give up yet another freedom, especially that one ?

quote:

ORIGINAL:
how are those under the age allowed to legally buy a gun supposed to defend themselves if the answer to protection is a gun?

Once again, good point but I don't think anyone here is saying that a gun is the only answer and many on your side of the equation are saying that it's not ok for those for whom it's legally permissible to have one.

quote:

ORIGINAL:
and too, we have seen knee-jerk reactions with people running out and buying a gun in reaction to heavily reported mass shootings and news reports of the govt making certain guns more difficult to buy.. The best way to create a buying frenzy is to tell people they cant have something anymore..

Tell us something we don't know and I've mentioned this before on other threads. Not only are they responding to the news reports but more so to the calls from politicians for bans on semi automatics. How ironic is it that a politician who hates guns can sell more semiautomatic weapons than millions of dollars worth of advertising ?

And I have one more thing. I watched the YouTube videos on your signature line. I have a few observations.

1) I seriously doubt the anti gun ABC would have shown any positive outcomes for the armed citizen assuming there was one.

2) One of the guys simulating the pandemonium in the classroom jumps over the counter into the middle of the room in front of the active shooter every time. I don't think that was a realistic thing to do.

3) Holstering your side arm straight up and down on the side of your dominate arm for concealed carry is a bad idea. It should have been holstered on the opposite side and canted forward for a cross draw. It's quicker and less likely to get caught up in the shirt. Even for a police officer sitting in a vehicle with his weapon unconcealed, the cross draw is going to be quicker. Getting your concealed weapon caught up in clothing has been a consideration among gun toters since I was a kid and then some. Some handguns are even designed with that consideration in mind such as smoothing sharp edges, and especially the front and rear sights. The participants in the demonstration should have practiced drawing the weapon and they might have dramatically increased their speed.

4) What's up with the participants wearing gloves. I hate wearing a shooting glove and it certainly won't enhance the speed of your draw.

5) The guy acting the part of the active shooter was a professional, an instructor and an expert. How advantageous vs the participants was that ?

I'll say this though, its not a bad idea for any of us gun toters to watch those videos. There are certainly some useful things to consider. My biggest concern is when I travel around the state I'm in for my job. I fear car jacking more than anything else. I keep a hand gun and a pepper spray fogger in my vehicle. The pepper spray might actually be the best response depending on the situation. I will tell you though that neither one of these items will do any good if I'm not paying the fuck attention when I'm stopped in traffic or at a light because I won't have time to react. And I know I will definitely react with confidence because it happened once. I'll tell you about it if your interested.

< Message edited by lovmuffin -- 10/28/2013 10:30:02 AM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 182

RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 10:33:28 AM

Yachtie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL:
how are those under the age allowed to legally buy a gun supposed to defend themselves if the answer to protection is a gun?

Once again, good point but I don't think anyone here is saying that a gun is the only answer and many on your side of the equation are saying that it's not ok for those for whom it's legally permissible to have one.

Their first line of defense is called parents.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to lovmuffin)

Post #: 183

RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 10:54:14 AM

lovmuffin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL:
how are those under the age allowed to legally buy a gun supposed to defend themselves if the answer to protection is a gun?

Once again, good point but I don't think anyone here is saying that a gun is the only answer and many on your side of the equation are saying that it's not ok for those for whom it's legally permissible to have one.

Their first line of defense is called parents.

Ya know, I meant to throw that one in there too and forgot.

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to Yachtie)

Post #: 184

RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 12:28:42 PM

PeonForHer

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FR

I haven't seen anybody comment on how spectacularly low in rape rates the USA is as a result of the prevalence of gun ownership - as opposed to more primitive and less enlightened and civilised countries in, say, Europe, where gun ownership is much lower. Why is this?

I'm sure American gun fans here will be only too eager to show how gun-ownership in their excellent society has led to a relatively minute rate of rapes as compared to other First World countries. Why have they been too modest to demonstrate this fact so far?

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Post #: 185

RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 1:28:32 PM

papassion

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News flash! When you go into the Army, the government gives you a gun. They tell you to shoot the bastard trying to harm you. There, you have the US government's official position on using a gun for protection.

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 186

RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 1:41:28 PM

Lucylastic

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When you go into the British Army, the government gives you a gun. They tell you to shoot the bastard trying to harm you. There, you have the US government's official position on using a gun for protection.
When you go into the Canadian Army the government gives you a gun. They tell you to shoot the bastard trying to harm you. There, you have the US government's official position on using a gun for protection.

the point is?

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Post #: 187

RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 1:42:56 PM

PeonForHer

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No, that's much too intellectual and cultured for me, PA. I'm only a European; consequently, I can't understand the sophisticated level of rationality and civilisation, much less the supremely advanced level of social wisdom, that lies behind it. :-(

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 10/28/2013 1:44:02 PM >

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Post #: 188

RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 1:46:12 PM

EdBowie

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And more pro-rapist sophistry like that accomplishes what?

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

I haven't seen anybody comment on how spectacularly low in rape rates the USA is as a result of the prevalence of gun ownership - as opposed to more primitive and less enlightened and civilised countries in, say, Europe, where gun ownership is much lower. Why is this?

I'm sure American gun fans here will be only too eager to show how gun-ownership in their excellent society has led to a relatively minute rate of rapes as compared to other First World countries. Why have they been too modest to demonstrate this fact so far?

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 189

RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 1:50:49 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

the point is?

The point is that the most cretinous view of society; the most savage and primitive that humans are, is how we should all act and how we should organise society. The only really advanced way of conducting social discourse is one in which each party has a gun pressed against the other's stomach. You know it makes sense.

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Post #: 190

RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 1:51:20 PM

Yachtie

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Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

When you go into the British Army, the government gives you a gun. They tell you to shoot the bastard trying to harm you. There, you have the US government's official position on using a gun for protection.
When you go into the Canadian Army the government gives you a gun. They tell you to shoot the bastard trying to harm you. There, you have the US government's official position on using a gun for protection.

the point is?

No wonder everyone has looked to the US for guidance

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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Post #: 191

RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 1:52:37 PM

Lucylastic

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you have no idea HOW funny that is , really

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Post #: 192

RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 1:53:02 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

And more pro-rapist sophistry like that accomplishes what?]

quote:

FR

I haven't seen anybody comment on how spectacularly low in rape rates the USA is as a result of the prevalence of gun ownership - as opposed to more primitive and less enlightened and civilised countries in, say, Europe, where gun ownership is much lower. Why is this?

I'm sure American gun fans here will be only too eager to show how gun-ownership in their excellent society has led to a relatively minute rate of rapes as compared to other First World countries. Why have they been too modest to demonstrate this fact so far?

Sorry, Ed - how was that meant to explain how having lots of guns makes the USA much less prone to rape? I'm a bit lost, here.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 10/28/2013 1:54:51 PM >

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Post #: 193

RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 1:53:32 PM

lovmuffin

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I only have one thing to say to Peon,

Arm The British !!

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to EdBowie)

Post #: 194

RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 1:57:42 PM

PeonForHer

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Ed, could you explain how lots of pro-gun sophistry makes the USA less inclined to rape? Seriously, I'm fascinated!

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Post #: 195

RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 2:02:33 PM

Yachtie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Ed, could you explain how lots of pro-gun sophistry makes the USA less inclined to rape? Seriously, I'm fascinated!

There are three doors. Behind each one is a gorgeous female for which any one would be quite the catch for the rapist. Those behind doors numbered one and three are armed. Says so on the door. Door number two emphatically states, unarmed.

Choose your door.

Now, imagine you are informed two of the three are armed but not which is the unarmed. Choose your door.

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 10/28/2013 2:04:30 PM >

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 196

RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 2:02:40 PM

PeonForHer

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So then, LM, if we were to be as armed up with guns as you Americans, do you think we might have as magnificently low a rate of rapes as you fine Americans have, hmm? We Brits can only dream . . . .

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Post #: 197

RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 2:07:56 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Ed, could you explain how lots of pro-gun sophistry makes the USA less inclined to rape? Seriously, I'm fascinated!

There are three doors. Behind each one is a gorgeous female for which any one would be quite the catch for the rapist. Those behind doors numbered one and three are armed. Says so on the door. Door number two emphatically states, unarmed.

Choose your door.

No, there aren't three doors, Yachtie. Nor any gorgeous females behind them. What there *are* is lots of first world countries that have much lower rates of rape than yours, even though yours is packed full of gun owners and the others aren't . . . .

Forget the tawdry old quasi-Aesops-fables bollocks, and answer the question. If you can. After all, you rightie types love the real world, and snort in derision at all this airy-fairy fable stuff, don't you?

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Post #: 198

RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 2:15:13 PM

Yachtie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Ed, could you explain how lots of pro-gun sophistry makes the USA less inclined to rape? Seriously, I'm fascinated!

There are three doors. Behind each one is a gorgeous female for which any one would be quite the catch for the rapist. Those behind doors numbered one and three are armed. Says so on the door. Door number two emphatically states, unarmed.

Choose your door.

No, there aren't three doors, Yachtie. Nor any gorgeous females behind them. What there *are* is lots of first world countries that have much lower rates of rape than yours, even though yours is packed full of gun owners and the others aren't . . . .

Forget the tawdry old quasi-Aesops-fables bollocks, and answer the question. If you can. After all, you rightie types love the real world, and snort in derision at all this airy-fairy fable stuff, don't you?

Avoidance Alert - Avoidance Alert - Avoidance Alert

To answer your question, perhaps we like women better than sheep at the cliff's edge at midnight.

I mean, it was a Brit who said of the Yanks in WWII, "Over-paid, over-sexed, and over here."

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 199

RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 2:55:39 PM

PeonForHer

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Sorry, Yachtie, I still can't get with your desire to go off into the world of fairy tales and idealistic pro-gun rhetoric.

Is there any chance at all that you might, one day, be able to explain how the USA fails to have a much smaller rate of rape, despite having a much higher rate of gun ownership, than most of the First World?

Any time you US gun-fan righties want to join the real world, I'm sure the rest of the world would be glad to welcome you!

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