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RE: Minimum wage in america - 12/17/2013 6:57:51 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

So we are now from minimum wage to donations, charities, and missions of churches.

It aint helping the minimum wage, and folks still is starving what churches and charity gives is a drop in the ocean of need.

ok.. the Great Peter Schiff has a solution (well,... sorta).. along the same idea of tips at restaurants.. (of course he isn't serious & its funny imo)..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLr5oWfoWRY

as one comment on youtube said "for less than a 1% pay cut for the executives of WalMart AND NO PRICE HIKES, they could pay all of their employees a living wage."

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RE: Minimum wage in america - 12/18/2013 8:02:38 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
I don't see that ever happening so it isn't an issue. The members of the church know we need money to keep things running and are not stupid enough to cut it off.

Sure. So the vast majority of the money donated to the church goes to administrative costs (money to keep things running), not to charity.

ETA: And mission work is usually to foreign countries, yeah? That's not really helping low-wage workers in the US.

< Message edited by graceadieu -- 12/18/2013 8:04:07 AM >

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RE: Minimum wage in america - 12/18/2013 8:55:26 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
I don't see that ever happening so it isn't an issue. The members of the church know we need money to keep things running and are not stupid enough to cut it off.

Sure. So the vast majority of the money donated to the church goes to administrative costs (money to keep things running), not to charity.

ETA: And mission work is usually to foreign countries, yeah? That's not really helping low-wage workers in the US.

I would have to look at the last report to get exact numbers but yes they have to pay the bills first to keep the church going. Just like anyone else would. While a lot of mission work is done overseas there are also a lot of them in the states like this one http://morganscottproject.org/ that help people in the states.

edited to add- a friend of mine goes to a mission group in Detroit and they give her food every week. No one ever asks them to attend services or pray with them. They just give food to those in need.

< Message edited by thishereboi -- 12/18/2013 8:56:43 AM >

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RE: Minimum wage in america - 12/18/2013 9:03:35 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

FR,

What would happen if the Federal Government, through the IRS decided that $75k was the minimum annual salary necessary? No taxes would be levied - at all - on your first $75k of income; no FICA, no SSI, nothing. Anything after that, though, would be taxed.

Would that be one of those so called"enumerated powers"?

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RE: Minimum wage in america - 12/18/2013 9:04:50 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie
An incentive for an entrepreneur is one thing.
At what point does it morph into an organizational cancer of mindlessly spiraling ever upward, that cannot be realistically sustained?

Profits? Profits are mindlessly spiraling ever upward? Do tell.

Perhaps you were unaware of the difference between the compensation for manageent vs. labor.

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RE: Minimum wage in america - 12/18/2013 11:07:15 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
I would have to look at the last report to get exact numbers but yes they have to pay the bills first to keep the church going. Just like anyone else would.

I'm curious about those numbers. Charity Navigator, for example, gives an automatic failing grade to any group that spends less than 2/3 of their revenue on providing actual charity services. I could be wrong, but it seems likely to me that most churches spend a lot more than 1/3 of the collection plate to "keep the church going".

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RE: Minimum wage in america - 12/18/2013 11:30:27 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Study after study shows conservatives give more than "bleeding heart liberals" to charity.

Actually when you remove church giving from those studies, and most churches only qualify as a charity because of laws making them (most do little to no actual charity work), conservatives give less to charity.
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2148033

Two attacks on your ridiculous opinion.

1. "Most churches only qualify as charity because of laws making them." (same as any charity actually).

Got any cite for your myopic opinion that most churches do no charity work?

No church has ever been on this groups list of researched and vetted top charities:
http://www.givewell.org/

You can also spend some time on
http://www.charitynavigator.org/
And you will find very few churches or religious organizations with high ratings.

At the individual church level, the donations pay for the church employees and upkeep of the church and the minister's residence none of which strikes me as charity work.

I'm not really concerned with your opinion of what charity work is. I'm even less concerned - if thats possible - with what givewell thinks.

Taking a look at who's behind the organization you have a liberal from Harvard, a liberal from Columbia, a liberal from Swarthmore, a liberal from Stanford, a liberal from Yale.

Catching a pattern here? Just another liberal front organization .... Ie., to be ignored whenever possible.

< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 12/18/2013 11:34:34 PM >

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RE: Minimum wage in america - 12/19/2013 6:44:15 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
I would have to look at the last report to get exact numbers but yes they have to pay the bills first to keep the church going. Just like anyone else would.

I'm curious about those numbers. Charity Navigator, for example, gives an automatic failing grade to any group that spends less than 2/3 of their revenue on providing actual charity services. I could be wrong, but it seems likely to me that most churches spend a lot more than 1/3 of the collection plate to "keep the church going".

Are churches the same as a charity service? Does Charity Navigator grade churches also?

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RE: Minimum wage in america - 12/19/2013 7:13:47 AM

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What I'm finding odd and laughable, is the fact that a lot (if not most) churches are also a registered charity.
And while many local organisations do help local people to some extent, the expenditure on that help compared to what they rake in via the plate, donations, and tax loopholes, pales into insignificance.

The churches are some of the richest organisations in the world and always have been.
They often have more liquid assets and land than many governments.
And they have the friggin cheek to ask people to give money to fix a roof or something??
Why can't they dip into their own pockets. It's not like they can't afford it.

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RE: Minimum wage in america - 12/19/2013 7:49:21 AM

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quote:

I'm not really concerned with your opinion of what charity work is. I'm even less concerned - if thats possible - with what givewell thinks.

Taking a look at who's behind the organization you have a liberal from Harvard, a liberal from Columbia, a liberal from Swarthmore, a liberal from Stanford, a liberal from Yale.

Catching a pattern here? Just another liberal front organization .... Ie., to be ignored whenever possible

Yeah, they are workers, cant say they are liberal, but the Board of Directors is pretty goddamn non-liberal.

Yeah the pattern seems to be that 'conservatives' don't give much to charity, and you have helped prove the point to everyone's satisfaction. Just more of the horseshit they mouth, with no basis in fact, as is always the case.

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RE: Minimum wage in america - 12/19/2013 8:06:43 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
I'm not really concerned with your opinion of what charity work is. I'm even less concerned - if thats possible - with what givewell thinks.

Taking a look at who's behind the organization you have a liberal from Harvard, a liberal from Columbia, a liberal from Swarthmore, a liberal from Stanford, a liberal from Yale.

Catching a pattern here? Just another liberal front organization .... Ie., to be ignored whenever possible.

Actually Give Well is run by a bunch of Wall street money guys. I have no idea about their politics and I doubt you can back up the claim that they are all liberals.

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RE: Minimum wage in america - 12/19/2013 12:46:16 PM

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/19/1010-minimum-wage_n_4474183.html
$10.10 Minimum Wage Would Actually Create New Jobs: Study
Raising the minimum wage would help the working poor and give the entire economy a boost, a new analysis finds.

If the minimum wage rose to $10.10 per hour, as Senate Democrats and President Barack Obama propose, 27.8 million workers would see their wages go up as a direct or indirect result of the boost, according to the Economic Policy Institute, a left-leaning think tank. These workers would take home about $35 billion in additional wages and they would probably spend it, as low-income people living with little financial cushion cushion tend to do.

The result: During the initial phase-in period, the U.S. economy would grow by about $22 billion, EPI found. The growth in the U.S. economy would result in about 85,000 new jobs, according to EPI. That counters arguments from conservative economists that raising the minimum wage could actually hurt the working poor by making employers hesitant to hire more workers. (A notion that’s been proven wrong by some economists and remains hotly debated.)

The analysis is an update to a similar report released by EPI earlier this year. It takes into account the fact that five states recently raised their minimum wage, meaning workers living in those states would feel less of an impact from a federal minimum wage boost than when EPI published the original research in March.

“A lot of states and even a lot of municipalities have all boosted their minimum wages out of a recognition that the federal minimum wage is just too low,” David Cooper, an economic analyst with EPI and the author of the report told The Huffington Post. “Because Congressional action is so hard to come by these days, they’re not going to wait.”

EPI's report adds to a growing body of evidence indicating that raising the federal minimum wage from its current $7.25 per hour would help a large swath of Americans. A June study from Restaurant Opportunities Centers United found that a $10.10 minimum wage would have been enough to push more than half of the nation’s 10 million-plus working poor out of poverty in 2011.

Today’s minimum wage isn’t enough for a family of two to live above the poverty line, according to the EPI study. In fact, it takes an hourly wage of $10.20 per hour for a single person to afford basic needs in America’s cheapest county, according to a July analysis from Wider Opportunities for Women. That wasn’t always the case, as Cooper noted: “The increase that is proposed would get us back to almost exactly what we would had as a real value of the minimum wage in the 1960’s.”

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RE: Minimum wage in america - 12/19/2013 6:53:04 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
If the minimum wage rose to $10.10 per hour, as Senate Democrats and President Barack Obama propose, 27.8 million workers would see their wages go up as a direct or indirect result of the boost, according to the Economic Policy Institute, a left-leaning think tank. These workers would take home about $35 billion in additional wages and they would probably spend it, as low-income people living with little financial cushion cushion tend to do.

$35B in higher wages without $35B in greater productivity means....?

Greater inflation. Now, the guy down the street who didn't get a wage hike is less stable.

Perfect!

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Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Minimum wage in america - 12/19/2013 7:01:26 PM

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maybe we should just get rid of people who produce nothing tangible during their day

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RE: Minimum wage in america - 12/19/2013 8:15:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
If the minimum wage rose to $10.10 per hour, as Senate Democrats and President Barack Obama propose, 27.8 million workers would see their wages go up as a direct or indirect result of the boost, according to the Economic Policy Institute, a left-leaning think tank. These workers would take home about $35 billion in additional wages and they would probably spend it, as low-income people living with little financial cushion cushion tend to do.

$35B in higher wages without $35B in greater productivity means....?

Greater inflation. Now, the guy down the street who didn't get a wage hike is less stable.

Perfect!

This has been predicted before every minimum wage hike during my adult life. It has never actually happened. Why, exactly, should anyone expect it to happen this time?

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

RE: Minimum wage in america - 12/19/2013 8:20:52 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
maybe we should just get rid of people who produce nothing tangible during their day

Has nothing to do with that at all, Lucy. More money chasing the same amount of goods means there will be higher costs for everyone on everything. The guy making $50k will find out that his money doesn't buy him the same amount of stuff as it did before.

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What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Minimum wage in america - 12/19/2013 8:25:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
If the minimum wage rose to $10.10 per hour, as Senate Democrats and President Barack Obama propose, 27.8 million workers would see their wages go up as a direct or indirect result of the boost, according to the Economic Policy Institute, a left-leaning think tank. These workers would take home about $35 billion in additional wages and they would probably spend it, as low-income people living with little financial cushion cushion tend to do.

$35B in higher wages without $35B in greater productivity means....?
Greater inflation. Now, the guy down the street who didn't get a wage hike is less stable.
Perfect!

This has been predicted before every minimum wage hike during my adult life. It has never actually happened. Why, exactly, should anyone expect it to happen this time?

Prices haven't gone up as a result of increases in the minimum wage? Interesting.

What was the minimum wage when you wore a younger man's clothes (as Billy Joel has put it)?

I started working when it was $3.35/hr. It's now almost $4 higher. It's gone up that much in, roughly, 30 years. Now, they want to raise it almost $3 in quite a lot less time. No, I'm sure there won't be any price inflation. Nope. None at all.

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)

RE: Minimum wage in america - 12/19/2013 8:27:04 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

maybe we should just get rid of people who produce nothing tangible during their day

that would be all the politicians.. and yes, a great idea! I have been saying that all along..

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RE: Minimum wage in america - 12/19/2013 8:37:47 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
maybe we should just get rid of people who produce nothing tangible during their day

that would be all the politicians.. and yes, a great idea! I have been saying that all along..

LMAO!!

Can't disagree!

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tj444)

RE: Minimum wage in america - 12/19/2013 8:54:33 PM

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Why would more people with the ability to spend on the basics cause the prices to go up to where they can't afford them again?

You seem thoroughly invested in this notion that people in business try as hard as they can to produce losses.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
If the minimum wage rose to $10.10 per hour, as Senate Democrats and President Barack Obama propose, 27.8 million workers would see their wages go up as a direct or indirect result of the boost, according to the Economic Policy Institute, a left-leaning think tank. These workers would take home about $35 billion in additional wages and they would probably spend it, as low-income people living with little financial cushion cushion tend to do.

$35B in higher wages without $35B in greater productivity means....?
Greater inflation. Now, the guy down the street who didn't get a wage hike is less stable.
Perfect!

This has been predicted before every minimum wage hike during my adult life. It has never actually happened. Why, exactly, should anyone expect it to happen this time?

Prices haven't gone up as a result of increases in the minimum wage? Interesting.

What was the minimum wage when you wore a younger man's clothes (as Billy Joel has put it)?

I started working when it was $3.35/hr. It's now almost $4 higher. It's gone up that much in, roughly, 30 years. Now, they want to raise it almost $3 in quite a lot less time. No, I'm sure there won't be any price inflation. Nope. None at all.

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