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RE: The war on christmas - 12/19/2013 1:03:21 PM   
PeonForHer


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Status: offline 		It's a chip shop in England, therefore it's an English chip shop, one would have thought.

I wonder if people who set out to visit chip shops in England are apt to get lost and end up in, say, Helsinki or Kathmandu, rather than their local high street, or something? I think we should be told.

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RE: The war on christmas - 12/19/2013 1:05:53 PM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		I had a mate who went out to buy some chips and wound up in Wales once, to be fair.

< Message edited by Moonhead -- 12/19/2013 1:08:31 PM >

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RE: The war on christmas - 12/19/2013 1:10:16 PM   
jlf1961


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From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Well, when I started this topic, I was referring to statements made by FOX news, a few right wing conservatives that even conservatives think are too far out there, and every Tom, Dick and Sarah Palin who opens their mouths to say that liberals are trying to stop Christmas or attack Christians.

Admittedly, I am an old geezer. So for those who really want to know about how Christmas has changed, let me fill you in.

In the 1960's Christmas decorations did not show up in stores until the day after thanksgiving, Christmas catalogs did not get to homes until mid November. There was no "black friday" crap and Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays were interchangeable, and that was because of Christmas being followed by New Years, and since we have two Greek orthodox churches in town, because of orthodox Christmas on January 7.

In the 1980's Christmas stuff started hitting the shelves in mid November.

In the 1990's, Christmas stuff was out the day after Halloween.

Now, Halloween aint even over and Christmas stuff is on the shelves.

I didnt start hearing about lawsuits about Christmas scenes on public property until around the mid 90's, but nothing about Christmas trees, just anything of a religious nature. After which, many cities and towns started to include a menorah along side a nativity scene, at least until Madalyn Murray O'Hair got an ideological bee in her panties and went batshit crazy.

Now FOX is wanting to blame liberals, but the truth is that it is not all the liberals who pull this crap, just a few batshit crazy nutjobs who somehow managed to survive until adulthood, and many of them are wanting financial restitution as well as taking whatever they find offensive down.

The simple truth is that there is no war on Christmas, or Christians.

The posts I made about the origins of the holiday were to point out that to say there is a war on a holiday that has no basis in history is rather stupid.

Now the statement that is now claimed to have been made in jest as to Santa and Jesus being white, there is a problem. I have watched the segment on FOX news webpage, The Daily show webpage, and half a dozen other news webpages, and to be honest, if she is telling a joke she really should stop, her delivery sucks, she had as much a serious tone as a doctor telling a patient they have cancer, or in her case, a diminished amount of working brain cells.

The "War on Christmas" is nothing more than another attempt by FOX news and some conservatives in Congress to galvanize their base into believing that liberals are socialist atheists bent on destroying the very fabric of American society.

I can remember a time when Democrats and Republicans disagreed, but they worked together to solve problems. Lately Republican senators have set records on how many times they used the filibuster to stop or kill legislation.

There is no war on Christmas, there is a war on the American people and it is being waged by those of both parties in power.

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RE: The war on christmas - 12/19/2013 1:18:10 PM   
Apocalypso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
So why can't English people be proud of the British flag and other British symbols like all other nations can?



Did you actually read the article?

quote:

A spokeswoman from the Planning Inspectorate said: "The Planning Inspector agreed with the council's decision not to allow this application.

"The Inspector's decision letter makes clear that the actual design and size of the sign would be "a prominent and intrusive visual feature in views along Naze Lane" affecting the visual amenity of the area.

"This decision was not based on any objection to displaying either the Union flag or St George's flag.

"Nothing prevents the applicant taking on board these comments and submitting an improved planning application."

The couple are now consulting with the sign maker to create an alternative design.


Stupid decision and incredibly jobsworthy of the council. But nothing to do with it being the British flag.


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RE: The war on christmas - 12/19/2013 1:59:00 PM   
PeonForHer


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I've just looked at images of the village of Freckleton, where the offending chip shop sign was. Yep, it's basically Warmington on Sea from Dads' Army. That big Union Jack would have lowered the tone - mainly because it looks a bit common, frankly.

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RE: The war on christmas - 12/19/2013 2:03:22 PM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

Yep, it's basically Warmington on Sea from Dads' Army.


Oh dear

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RE: The war on christmas - 12/19/2013 11:53:40 PM   
graceadieu


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
We celebrate every race and religion special occasions.


In America, we don't. For the most part, only Christian holidays are celebrated publically. You don't see "Happy Diwali!" posters up.

quote:

I just find it so anti-freedom to prevent Christians from celebrating Christmas and just sharing their decoration and celebration with the country they live in.


Americans can celebrate Christmas as much as they want, and put up whatever decorations they want on their own private property. The complaint, the only complaint, is when depictions of one particular religion's gods and religious dogma are put up on government land using government money.

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RE: The war on christmas - 12/20/2013 12:00:10 AM   
graceadieu


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
Well, when Merry Christmas is forbidden to be used in Decors, and they have to put up "Happy Holidays" decors instead, that is pretty NAZI runned!
I heard from my US and UK friends based here that some places in their countries, even some shopping malls aren't allowed to put up Christmas decorations anymore, as it's a Christian thing and not universal for all. That's PC gone mad!


You misunderstand those stories. Anyone can say "Merry Christmas", and any malls can put up whatever decorations they want. What's going on is that some malls have chosen to not decorate with crosses and baby Jesus, because they don't want to annoy their non-Christian customers. Then some Christians get angry when they go to the store and see that the store owner has a menorah up or says "Happy Holidays" instead of Christian symbols.

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RE: The war on christmas - 12/20/2013 12:13:47 AM   
EdBowie


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Status: offline 		Go tell your friends that you don't appreciate them misleading you like that.

The only 'banning' that has happened is that schools and employers aren't allowed to force Jewish, atheist, Muslim etc. students/employees to actively sing and pray to Jesus if they don't want to. Period.
Nobody has been arrested just for saying 'Merry Christmas', no one has been issued a court order banning Christmas trees in store windows.

The horror stories are based on a handful of overblown incidents, and the dog in the manger reaction from some who are angry that they can't shove their Christism down the throats of others.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso
Who's preventing Christians from celebrating Christmas? Are there Christmas police going round smashing up nativity scenes?

Well, when Merry Christmas is forbidden to be used in Decors, and they have to put up "Happy Holidays" decors instead, that is pretty NAZI runned!
I heard from my US and UK friends based here that some places in their countries, even some shopping malls aren't allowed to put up Christmas decorations anymore, as it's a Christian thing and not universal for all. That's PC gone mad!



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RE: The war on christmas - 12/20/2013 4:59:02 AM   
Apocalypso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie
Nobody has been arrested just for saying 'Merry Christmas', no one has been issued a court order banning Christmas trees in store windows.


Same in the UK. And, unless Huddersfield is an exception (which is rather unlikely), the shops are full of staff members wearing Christmas hats and are all playing Christmas songs on loop.

Ok, the local record shop guys are all wearing black hats with "Bah Humbug" on them. But I think that's more likely to be a case of them being grumpy hipsters then a decree from up top.

quote:

The horror stories are based on a handful of overblown incidents


Almost always the case with "PC gone mad" stories.

One of the 'best' is the one about how they won't let children sing Ba Ba Black Sheep anymore. Which is a very muddled account of a single school, who were using the song to teach children colours.

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RE: The war on christmas - 12/20/2013 5:25:30 AM   
farglebargle


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Status: offline 		Dan Savage weighs in on the WoC -- while reading Sarah Palin's new book about it, and baking gay christmas cookies for jews... This may be the best book review ever written.

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/good-grief-and-great-tits/Content?oid=18503580

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RE: The war on christmas - 12/20/2013 5:35:32 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		Now that's how you write a hatchet job.

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RE: The war on christmas - 12/20/2013 5:42:24 AM   
PeonForHer


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Sure is.

"Just as conservatives made patriotism toxic during the Vietnam War by conflating it with blind obedience to authority ("My country, right or wrong!"), modern conservatives have made "merry Christmas" toxic by associating it with Christian fundamentalism, religious intolerance, and the politics of imagined persecution."

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RE: The war on christmas - 12/20/2013 5:59:59 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		Wow, just wow....
this is a good point....

quote:

Dan is 100% spot on with the "happy holidays" conversion. I used to say "merry Christmas" without even thinking about it, but now I say "happy holidays" or usually "have a good holiday" because I do not want people to think I am an asshole doing it for politcal reasons like Sarah Palin and Bill O'Reilly.


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RE: The war on christmas - 12/20/2013 6:11:11 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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Status: offline 		I find a lot of the very gaudy shop fronts very annoying.

Strangely, BK tend to be a bit more subdued and less in-your-face than a lot of others.
A lot of MacD's stand out like a sore thumb. As do KFC and a lot of Subways.
Quite a few take-outs are fairly plain looking with just a TV and a serving bar.
But there are also many that are lit up like xmas trees with flashing lights that you couldn't miss unless you were totally blind.

So what if he had a flag or two on his shop front?
I don't find that any more intrusive or an eyesore than a MacD's drive-thru that nearly always looks out of place and overly gaudy.

So when my local Texaco garage is ordered to remove their Merry Christmas decor and the local school is told to cancel the nativity play, that sucks!
Beaurocratic local PC councils gone mad.

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RE: The war on christmas - 12/20/2013 6:26:09 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

I wonder if you're spending all this time watching FOX or just parroting Media Matters? Also, the constitution says the government shall not institute a religion, not that it should police where or how people should practice religion. I understand some judges from the liberal side have taken the clause to extremes like making veterans cemeteries pull crosses off war memorials, or the City of Los Angeles take a cross out of its logo. But, I just don't agree with the liberal judges. So arguing that with me won't move me.


Actually, the constitution specifically says that government shall NOT "police" how people practice their religion.

quote:



"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ...



I always find it amusing that lefties like to refer to "separation of church and state" (which doesn't exist in the constitution but appears in a letter that Jefferson wrote during his presidency) but they seem to forget that government is specifically enjoined from interfering in how a person practices their religion.

It's a logically flawed argument for someone to say: "You can't have a nativity display in a post office because of 'separation of church and state' and a letter carrier can't sing Christmas carols while they deliver the mail."





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RE: The war on christmas - 12/20/2013 6:30:50 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie
I've seen KFCs that were red and white since day one... I've never seen any that were red white and blue. Is that specific to the UK, or are you making things up?

I don't actually like KFC myself so I never go in them or buy anything.
But my kids have come home recently with all 3 colours on their buckets and drinks.
Maybe a special for the thanksgiving thingy?? I dunno.

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RE: The war on christmas - 12/20/2013 6:39:36 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

What's the problem with PC?
Most of what histrionic drama queens like Rush Limpdick and DEnnis Leary dismiss as "political correctness" is basically good manners.
Is being a rude cunt something to be proud of now?


It's not rude to put up banners that says Merry Christmas in Malls or public areas, neither is it rude to put up banners that says Happy Deepavali, you get what I mean? It's all well wishes! How can that be rude? Yet friendly messages like that could cause offense, that is PC gone mad.
I'll give another example, in Singapore, we have Indians from India. And we call them Indians and that is fine. But I notice that the African Americans in US, cannot come to a mutual agreement on what is the best way to label them. Even the word "African Americans" comes off as racist to some of them, and I was told when I was in LA that I can never call a black person, black, or I'd get in trouble and cause offense. But yet, it's not offensive to call a white dude, white. Those are PC crap! And of course African Americans are allowed to refer to each other as "niggas" but not any other races. I know for sure we yellow folks won't be using gook on ourselves at all! And I'm okay with being yellow :) Like the simpsons! But I noticed Asian Americans, at least the "yellow" ones, hate that word and find it offensive. More annoying PC, getting offended over nothing.

I remembered being called gook by a white American dude, well the exact statement was, "Are you a gook?" and it's suppose to be derogatory in US but um, the word means nothing to me, I didn't even care. That guy ended up becoming a friend, because I was well, I didn't grow up in US, and really that word is alien to me, so I had no reaction.

Point is, Problem with too much PC, is people get offended over nothing and everything.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 12/20/2013 6:53:57 AM >

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RE: The war on christmas - 12/20/2013 8:22:04 AM   
EdBowie


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Status: offline 		Interesting fantasy. I hope you find a planet where it comes true.

Here on Earth, the US Constitution says no such thing. 'Respecting' and 'not policing' are not the same thing.

Meanwhile, Art III renders the rest of your claims moot... as you already knew.

'Yewdapeeeple' don't get to say what the 1st amendment means or doesn't mean. And that comes from a whole lot of letters between the Framers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Actually, the constitution specifically says that government shall NOT "police" how people practice their religion.

quote:



"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ...



I always find it amusing that lefties like to refer to "separation of church and state" (which doesn't exist in the constitution but appears in a letter that Jefferson wrote during his presidency) but they seem to forget that government is specifically enjoined from interfering in how a person practices their religion.

It's a logically flawed argument for someone to say: "You can't have a nativity display in a post office because of 'separation of church and state' and a letter carrier can't sing Christmas carols while they deliver the mail."







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RE: The war on christmas - 12/20/2013 8:32:28 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		I find it amusing that if they put out the nativity scene, the nutsackers would try to prohibit my free exercise of religion of heathens putting out a statue of Odin in the nativity scene splitting Jeebus from asshole to shoesole.



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