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Contracts? - 1/6/2014 1:34:05 PM   
mummyman321


Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline 		One of the things I enjoy doing is reading profiles. I guess you could call me a profile voyeur. Please note I am not looking for a Domme to serve. I serve a beautiful lady who is very successful. So for those asking why am I looking at Dominant women profiles take it at the face value of just voyeuring. Similar to my enjoyment of just going to a crowded restaurant, I can sit for hours just watching the crowd, the body mannerisms and facial gestures as people talk. So it is with profiles, I enjoy reading profiles. I actually did this before the internet with the old swinger and BDSM magazines (yes I am a little older). I would always get a kick out of what some people were looking for or what their attitude was on certain subjects. In reading many Dominant women profiles on CM one of the things I have come across is the “contract” which has always made me wonder a little bit. Basically the profile states if you are going to serve me you will need to sign a contract.

Contracts can be for a variety of reason ranging from purely financial gain to the altruistic exchange of BDSM value/beliefs of the agreed relationship. For the sake of this discussion lets ignore the contracts for financial gain (gold diggers, scammers etc) and focus on BDSM and assume the contract is for a BDSM relationship.

I am curious if you find contracts valuable? If so, why? There is certainly a symbolic gesture in writing a document and then signing it. My personal take on this is that I have no interest in it. I find it rather superficial. I am not saying it is right or wrong just that it holds no value for me. If someone else finds it valuable I am fine with that. Also I should note my point of view is from an alpha type submissive and I do not live the lifestyle 24/7. So that might be a factor also as to why I do not see value in it.

In thinking about it, I guess 2 different scenarios could exist here. 1)You just met the Domme and she wants you to sign a contract. 2) You have known the Domme for a while and she wants you to sign a contract.

For option #1 I just cannot see value in this. Signing a contract with a stranger you barely know? I see the vanilla equivalent of this as getting married to person after 1 or 2 dates. In the vanilla world this typically ends badly. I just cannot see agreeing to anything with a total stranger other than meet, talk and let’s see where it goes from here?

For option #2 I do not see value in this either. I would have hoped by this time a subs words/acts/deeds speak for themselves and you both know each other’s true intentions. I guess you could consider this similar to collaring or the written equivalent of it? Oddly I see value in collaring but no value in the contract. Probably because a collar is worn and is a constant reminder where as a piece of paper gets put in a drawer and not seen again.

So the question is do you find contracts valuable? And more importantly why or why not? Care to share? :)



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RE: Contracts? - 1/6/2014 2:19:28 PM   
shadowborn61


Posts: 143
Joined: 11/5/2013
Status: offline 		A contract is only worth the value placed on it by those involved.
Your scenario #1 theory is flawed in that a contract is not legally binding where a marriage license is. A contract for a slave/submissive cannot be legal in the United States since slavery is illegal.
It makes no difference that both parties signed it voluntarily it is still illegal.
So as a symbolic gesture yes a contract may have value or to outline the limits of a relationship both when playing and not playing, This is usually done between two people who may be just starting a D/s M/s relationship.
But in the end a contract is really not worth the paper it is written on.

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RE: Contracts? - 1/6/2014 2:27:46 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		"A contract for a slave/submissive cannot be legal in the United States since slavery is illegal. "

But a service contract is legal. So are marriage contracts and now they have relationship contracts.

ETA:

"So the question is do you find contracts valuable? And more importantly why or why not? Care to share?"

Yes, they serve as written reminder of your goals and commitments.

< Message edited by ResidentSadist -- 1/6/2014 2:28:37 PM >

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RE: Contracts? - 1/6/2014 2:28:44 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline 		2.
Its not for me. That piece of paper, is like...monopoly money to me.
I DO find BDSM checklists useful though- and sometimes that is sorta involved with contract drawing- but if someone tells me to sign a contract, I usually walk away.


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RE: Contracts? - 1/6/2014 2:35:56 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I have always thought that the value of a contract lies in the writing of it. You write that you will never refuse sex and then you say "hey, what about if my mother just died" or as in my case "What about refusing to give a blow job when I haven't been able to stop coughing from a week before Christmas".

It makes you think about the nuts and bolts of the relationship, not just the romantic and sexy stuff of literature.

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 1/6/2014 2:38:48 PM >

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RE: Contracts? - 1/6/2014 2:40:55 PM   
mummyman321


Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline 		RS & sb,
I did not mean to imply the contract was in anyway legally binding. In the US and Germany it is considered slavery and illegal. Merely a written agreement between the Dom(me) and sub.



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RE: Contracts? - 1/6/2014 2:55:05 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I have always thought that the value of a contract lies in the writing of it. You write that you will never refuse sex and then you say "hey, what about if my mother just died" or as in my case "What about refusing to give a blow job when I haven't been able to stop coughing from a week before Christmas".

It makes you think about the nuts and bolts of the relationship, not just the romantic and sexy stuff of literature.

Wouldn't a good Dom take that into consideration?

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RE: Contracts? - 1/6/2014 4:39:58 PM   
mummyman321


Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I have always thought that the value of a contract lies in the writing of it. You write that you will never refuse sex and then you say "hey, what about if my mother just died" or as in my case "What about refusing to give a blow job when I haven't been able to stop coughing from a week before Christmas".

It makes you think about the nuts and bolts of the relationship, not just the romantic and sexy stuff of literature.


Des,
I can say I never thought about contracts being that specific. I think I would bust out laughing if a Domme presented me with something like oral sex on demand no matter what. But I can see how someone might take it to that level. I am a person who believes in common sense and safewords and has been around long enough to know real life can and does gets in the way of BDSM. Case in point, I did call my safe word due to my large intestine rupturing (diverticulitis). I did not know it at the time but knew something was really wrong after feeling a sharp pain in my side. So that session ended with a trip to the emergency room and I came home 8 days later with 2 feet of my large intestine removed. (Note the Domme did not cause the issue and it had nothing to do with BDSM play we were doing. It was a medical issue I had with no prior warning)

If I had to spell out a contract to that level of detail it would be a red flag for me. But a great discussion point on limits when entering a new relationship!





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RE: Contracts? - 1/6/2014 6:05:13 PM   
SpyUnderCover


Posts: 208
Joined: 6/21/2010
Status: offline 		I've never used a contract and don't see myself doing so in the future. I'd get just as much or more value out of a discussion of our goals and limits while noting relevant points on paper. But I wouldn't make someone sign it, and I wouldn't call it a contract.

Spy

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RE: Contracts? - 1/6/2014 6:43:02 PM   
MalcolmNathaniel


Posts: 1394
Joined: 9/20/2010
Status: offline 		I think they are useful for newbies to gain an idea of what is expected or a checklist for a new partner. Once you've actually learned they are no longer useful.

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RE: Contracts? - 1/6/2014 6:46:01 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I find nothing valuable in them.

Since I always looked for a relationship, I treat it just like any other relationship...we talk, we get to know each other, go on dates, hang out, etc.....You know....the old fashioned way of finding out if you want to spend the rest of your life with that person.

I guess for me the only use I would see of them is in some kind of professional or casual basis where you're not planning on anything further than maybe a few play sessions and don't really care if you know the person or not.

But being that was never my case, I just found them not at all useful to me.


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RE: Contracts? - 1/6/2014 6:56:25 PM   
VDom99


Posts: 1
Joined: 11/18/2013
Status: offline 		I like a checklist and it comes in handy especially if you print in out and hang it on a wall where it can be viewed (obviously using discretion depending on how "out" you are in the relationship.) A fun thing I like to do is have my sub check off new experiences that she wanted to try and have been fulfilled. Recently my pet ran up to the wall all naked and giddy and playfully stuck her ass out so I got a glimpse of the butt plug I had inserted 24 hours before. She drew a line through "Wear large butt plug for 24 hours" on the list. She then turned to me and with the cutest grin ever said, "Next up, Anal Sex!" and commenced a little proud happy dance. God she was adorable and so happy to check something off the list.

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RE: Contracts? - 1/6/2014 7:01:46 PM   
LadyAnne68


Posts: 134
Joined: 9/4/2013
From: Moorestown, NJ
Status: offline 		I don't use contracts.

I tell my slave what I want and if he doesn't want to do it, he can walk. It's as easy as that.

My slave is a domestic slave - he does the housework and chores. I tell/show him how to do the work.
I'll discuss any issues he has with his assignments. But ultimately, if he doesn't do the work to my satisfaction, I don't invite him back.

I think that the best result comes from a slave who wants to do the work.



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RE: Contracts? - 1/6/2014 8:42:49 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

It makes you think about the nuts and bolts of the relationship, not just the romantic and sexy stuff of literature.

The Mister and I wrote up a contract a couple of years ago, to address some intangible issues that seemed to keep coming up. Once we wrote it, we really never referred back to it. The process of writing it did what Des referenced - it helped us to talk through the nuts and bolts of our relationship mad where we wanted it to go. The process took awhile, and included a lot of dialogue we may not have otherwise had, in a "safe" environment. We don't use the contract, but the process was good.

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RE: Contracts? - 1/6/2014 8:54:52 PM   
mummyman321


Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

It makes you think about the nuts and bolts of the relationship, not just the romantic and sexy stuff of literature.

The Mister and I wrote up a contract a couple of years ago, to address some intangible issues that seemed to keep coming up. Once we wrote it, we really never referred back to it. The process of writing it did what Des referenced - it helped us to talk through the nuts and bolts of our relationship mad where we wanted it to go. The process took awhile, and included a lot of dialogue we may not have otherwise had, in a "safe" environment. We don't use the contract, but the process was good.



I am curious as to why writing it down versus just talking about it helped you out? Can you shed some more light on why writing it down really helped?

Now I can be a bit of an absent minded professor type. So I can see writing down discussion points to talk about them.

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RE: Contracts? - 1/6/2014 9:40:16 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		Great question. We went through a process of listing out the things that were important to us, and it gave us a springboard to talk from. This was over the course of a couple months, relaxed, curled up together with some wine. Starting with a topic list allowed us to not worry about forgetting anything. That alleviated any mild anxiety for me - it's just how my brain works. Because this was over the course of months, it allowed us to refer back to what we had talked about. The process of talking through everything helped us to really understand each other better, and why certain things were important to either of us. And taking our time allowed us to process any reactions that may have come up. There were things I changed my mind about along the way, because of going back to read what we talked about at a later time and with a fresh mindset.

One thing neither of us has is a perfect memory. So it helped him remember certain things that were agreed to, too. When I say we didn't reference it, it's that we never felt the need to say, "Hey you agreed to this and it's not happening." We'd just look at it, individually or together, and process things, or talk more.

I can't remember the last time we referenced it, but it's been well over a year, probably two. It was the *process* of writing, talking, reflecting, readdressing when necessary, that was helpful in getting to where we wanted to go. I don't know that we'd necessarily do it again, but there were benefits for us at the time.

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RE: Contracts? - 1/6/2014 11:33:28 PM   
SoulAlloy


Posts: 2106
Joined: 8/23/2009
From: Preston, UK
Status: offline 		I've had a contract before, it outlined what was expected of me and consequences of failure, like a learning tool for training. I took it as a kind of promise on what I would strive for.

I'm not a big fan of them, though as others stated I guess it would depend on the writing. One must keep an open mind after all ;)

I can see it as one of a layer of symbolic control mechanisms (for serious want of a better word!) - an extra reminder of the power you are giving the other party consensually.

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RE: Contracts? - 1/7/2014 12:12:20 AM   
TNDommeK


Posts: 7153
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline 		Hi MM!
Glad to see you posting again.

We use contracts. While we understand they aren't legally binding,
it is still something between us and slave.

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RE: Contracts? - 1/7/2014 12:30:52 AM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I find nothing valuable in them.

Since I always looked for a relationship, I treat it just like any other relationship...we talk, we get to know each other, go on dates, hang out, etc.....You know....the old fashioned way of finding out if you want to spend the rest of your life with that person.

I guess for me the only use I would see of them is in some kind of professional or casual basis where you're not planning on anything further than maybe a few play sessions and don't really care if you know the person or not.

But being that was never my case, I just found them not at all useful to me.


There's nothing wrong with drawing up an outline, checklist, or to write down Hard and Soft Limits; consequently, if a couple wants to draw up a pre-nup before getting married, I don't see anything untoward about that. Some people make a chart of household chores to keep their kids on track. However, this isn't the modus operandi that suits my personality. Somehow, reaching levels of understanding through verbal communication and interaction is a more intimately bonding process to me in cultivating a relationship.

I have to concur with littlewonder's assessment of finding nothing valuable or intrinsically useful in doing a contract, unless it were more of a service contract. I had a D/s-curious vanilla sub I once provided with a Mission Statement since he was such a newbie, so he was able to grasp unfamiliar concepts in those terms. It didn't do much good, though, and I don't see where drawing up a symbolic Master-slave contract and having my sub sign it would serve any purpose for either of us. I don't abide by a slavery construct and don't want a sub with a slave mindset in the first place.

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RE: Contracts? - 1/7/2014 12:07:22 PM   
mummyman321


Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

Hi MM!
Glad to see you posting again.

We use contracts. While we understand they aren't legally binding,
it is still something between us and slave.



Hi TN!
I almost forgot about your duck lips. Glad you added it to your sig line :) And you moved!

Now is that for just for paying subs? Or also for relationship (non paying) subs?

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Life - Its not about where you are but about the journey to get there - I prefer to choose the road less traveled

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