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RE: Contracts? - 1/7/2014 12:17:50 PM   
mummyman321


Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I find nothing valuable in them.

Since I always looked for a relationship, I treat it just like any other relationship...we talk, we get to know each other, go on dates, hang out, etc.....You know....the old fashioned way of finding out if you want to spend the rest of your life with that person.

I guess for me the only use I would see of them is in some kind of professional or casual basis where you're not planning on anything further than maybe a few play sessions and don't really care if you know the person or not.

But being that was never my case, I just found them not at all useful to me.


There's nothing wrong with drawing up an outline, checklist, or to write down Hard and Soft Limits; consequently, if a couple wants to draw up a pre-nup before getting married, I don't see anything untoward about that. Some people make a chart of household chores to keep their kids on track. However, this isn't the modus operandi that suits my personality. Somehow, reaching levels of understanding through verbal communication and interaction is a more intimately bonding process to me in cultivating a relationship.

I have to concur with littlewonder's assessment of finding nothing valuable or intrinsically useful in doing a contract, unless it were more of a service contract. I had a D/s-curious vanilla sub I once provided with a Mission Statement since he was such a newbie, so he was able to grasp unfamiliar concepts in those terms. It didn't do much good, though, and I don't see where drawing up a symbolic Master-slave contract and having my sub sign it would serve any purpose for either of us. I don't abide by a slavery construct and don't want a sub with a slave mindset in the first place.


FO,
I guess I could see a contract as a sort of prenup could/would make sense. I do like checklist for discussion points. I tend to like them for finding gray areas. Most people have hard limits and those are easy to find. All have gray areas and those tend to be a little hard to find and requires a lot of discussion. So check lists are very good (IMHO) for that.

I am afraid I am old school enough that to me a gentleman's word or a Domme's word is more sincere than a piece of paper. A person's deeds/action speak more words than a piece of paper. I am approaching this from having an emotional relationship with the Domme.


_____________________________

Life - Its not about where you are but about the journey to get there - I prefer to choose the road less traveled

(in reply to FieryOpal)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Contracts? - 1/7/2014 1:57:34 PM   
TNDommeK


Posts: 7153
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mummyman321


quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

Hi MM!
Glad to see you posting again.

We use contracts. While we understand they aren't legally binding,
it is still something between us and slave.



Hi TN!
I almost forgot about your duck lips. Glad you added it to your sig line :) And you moved!

Now is that for just for paying subs? Or also for relationship (non paying) subs?



Our contracts are for the long term females we own.

_____________________________

Goddess of Duck Lips and Luxurious Hair
The working Fin Domme
Professional con artist, swindler, trixster, extortionist

Our snark-nado needs more cowbell


(in reply to mummyman321)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Contracts? - 1/7/2014 2:38:06 PM   
mummyman321


Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK


quote:

ORIGINAL: mummyman321


quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

Hi MM!
Glad to see you posting again.

We use contracts. While we understand they aren't legally binding,
it is still something between us and slave.



Hi TN!
I almost forgot about your duck lips. Glad you added it to your sig line :) And you moved!

Now is that for just for paying subs? Or also for relationship (non paying) subs?



Our contracts are for the long term females we own.


TNDK
Can you give an example of how it has helped? Have you needed to refer back to the contract after it was written? Or is it just more symbolic in nature?

_____________________________

Life - Its not about where you are but about the journey to get there - I prefer to choose the road less traveled

(in reply to TNDommeK)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Contracts? - 1/7/2014 4:00:49 PM   
D0MBLKMAN2Serve


Posts: 46
Joined: 11/8/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mummyman321

One of the things I enjoy doing is reading profiles. I guess you could call me a profile voyeur. Please note I am not looking for a Domme to serve. I serve a beautiful lady who is very successful. So for those asking why am I looking at Dominant women profiles take it at the face value of just voyeuring. Similar to my enjoyment of just going to a crowded restaurant, I can sit for hours just watching the crowd, the body mannerisms and facial gestures as people talk. So it is with profiles, I enjoy reading profiles. I actually did this before the internet with the old swinger and BDSM magazines (yes I am a little older). I would always get a kick out of what some people were looking for or what their attitude was on certain subjects. In reading many Dominant women profiles on CM one of the things I have come across is the “contract” which has always made me wonder a little bit. Basically the profile states if you are going to serve me you will need to sign a contract.

Contracts can be for a variety of reason ranging from purely financial gain to the altruistic exchange of BDSM value/beliefs of the agreed relationship. For the sake of this discussion lets ignore the contracts for financial gain (gold diggers, scammers etc) and focus on BDSM and assume the contract is for a BDSM relationship.

I am curious if you find contracts valuable? If so, why? There is certainly a symbolic gesture in writing a document and then signing it. My personal take on this is that I have no interest in it. I find it rather superficial. I am not saying it is right or wrong just that it holds no value for me. If someone else finds it valuable I am fine with that. Also I should note my point of view is from an alpha type submissive and I do not live the lifestyle 24/7. So that might be a factor also as to why I do not see value in it.

In thinking about it, I guess 2 different scenarios could exist here. 1)You just met the Domme and she wants you to sign a contract. 2) You have known the Domme for a while and she wants you to sign a contract.

For option #1 I just cannot see value in this. Signing a contract with a stranger you barely know? I see the vanilla equivalent of this as getting married to person after 1 or 2 dates. In the vanilla world this typically ends badly. I just cannot see agreeing to anything with a total stranger other than meet, talk and let’s see where it goes from here?

For option #2 I do not see value in this either. I would have hoped by this time a subs words/acts/deeds speak for themselves and you both know each other’s true intentions. I guess you could consider this similar to collaring or the written equivalent of it? Oddly I see value in collaring but no value in the contract. Probably because a collar is worn and is a constant reminder where as a piece of paper gets put in a drawer and not seen again.

So the question is do you find contracts valuable? And more importantly why or why not? Care to share? :)






I have used contract as it pertains to option 2. I use one because of the rigor and structure I need to impart in my daily life and the contract, in a way is a blueprint or me and my girl until we are well versed in it. Then it is a moot point. Frankly, in early days of our relationship, when I look at a signed contract especially when she brings it to me and I go through the infringements with her, it is a huge turn on.

(in reply to mummyman321)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Contracts? - 1/7/2014 6:42:01 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I guess the reason contracts make no sense to me is because of the types of relationships I get into and want and enjoy. It's whatever he wants...period. We have the getting to know you dating period, talking, blah blah blah. If we find we don't share commonalities at that point then we both move on or I accept those things he's into and live with them. I don't need to enjoy every single thing he enjoys. I don't need to have everything I want on my list and I don't want him doing things on my list just to make me happy.

So for me, contracts would be a waste of time. I think Master would look at a contract between us and say "WTF? You're an owned piece of meat. What does it matter what you want? This isn't a democracy".



_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to D0MBLKMAN2Serve)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Contracts? - 1/7/2014 6:58:25 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

So for me, contracts would be a waste of time. I think Master would look at a contract between us and say "WTF? You're an owned piece of meat. What does it matter what you want? This isn't a democracy".



I definitely get that they're not for everyone. I used to roll my eyes at the idea, myself.

But I'm not a piece of meat. And there were certain avenues he wanted to go down that were triggering PTSD reactions in me. Since he sees me as a cared about human being and wanted to move us along in a way that was healthy and enjoyable to us both, he decided it would be a good exercise to plot out our course together, and talk about it as we did. It was a way for me to visually see his path for us and work through my anxieties about some of it. It was an awesome experience for us.

We're at a point now, years later, where something like that isn't necessary. But I'm glad he chose that for us at the time.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Contracts? - 1/7/2014 8:58:43 PM   
mummyman321


Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I guess the reason contracts make no sense to me is because of the types of relationships I get into and want and enjoy. It's whatever he wants...period. We have the getting to know you dating period, talking, blah blah blah. If we find we don't share commonalities at that point then we both move on or I accept those things he's into and live with them. I don't need to enjoy every single thing he enjoys. I don't need to have everything I want on my list and I don't want him doing things on my list just to make me happy.

So for me, contracts would be a waste of time. I think Master would look at a contract between us and say "WTF? You're an owned piece of meat. What does it matter what you want? This isn't a democracy".




LW,
I do understand your point of view and thank you for sharing. I also do not get anything out of contracts but for different reasons I have already stated. Contracts work for some and not for others. I think this thread begins to unveil different people are in different situations. So the simple question of do you find value in a contract is really not that simple. There are many variables that come into play. Many of them I really had not thought of until the responses in this thread. So I can see who some do find value in the contract. It is always interesting to see other points of view :)

_____________________________

Life - Its not about where you are but about the journey to get there - I prefer to choose the road less traveled

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Contracts? - 1/9/2014 7:15:59 AM   
Domnotlooking


Posts: 249
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		On the internet at least, all contracts seem to have been written by the same two people in the same tone. How I have longed for a little hotness when googling BDSM contracts out of horny boredom. It does all seem to be mishmash of CastleRealm and Gor (not that there's anything wrong with that).

Those rare pervvy gods who live poly households and practice advanced leather subcultural folkways may or may not have contracts that would be worth a skim, but usually the BDSM contract is a coma-inducing retread that is beat out only by the dreaded "Submissive Prayer", for profound why-did-I-click disappointment.




(in reply to mummyman321)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Contracts? - 1/9/2014 8:17:15 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mummyman321
RS & sb,
I did not mean to imply the contract was in anyway legally binding. In the US and Germany it is considered slavery and illegal. Merely a written agreement between the Dom(me) and sub.

My reply about the legal aspects of a service, marriage or relationship contract was in response to shadowborn61's comment that slavery and associated contracts were illegal.



_____________________________

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I give good thread.

(in reply to mummyman321)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Contracts? - 1/9/2014 9:56:16 AM   
lovethyself


Posts: 1818
Joined: 11/4/2012
Status: offline 		FR

I'm not really the type to care about trappings, so having a formalized contract written out to sound like a contract, and treated as such within the relationship, or where there is some ritual surrounding it and any changes made to it, doesn't really appeal to me.

My last relationship had something similar though. Since we were a little distance away from each other and managed to get together about once a month, most of our contact was either written or via skype. When we started introducing protocols into the relationship, he created a google doc that we could both reference that listed the rules, assignments, due dates, etc.. I found it really helpful to have something to refer back to while acclimating to the protocols. It wasn't something I had to sign, anything he added we discussed in length, and things were adapted when life got in the way.

I'm finding with the new guy that I sort of miss having that document as a reference. There are protocols that are for play only, and some that are reduced to guidelines outside of play (as in no punishment if I don't follow them). Honestly, I keep tripping on what is expected at any one point. We're still in the very beginnings of going from just play to something more, so it's a bit muddled still as to what works outside of play.

In the first example, we never called it a contract, didn't treat it like one, and had little expectation of it becoming one. It was just a reference of what was in play at the time ('cause when I'm jammed at work, my memory sucks!).

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Contracts? - 1/9/2014 12:03:03 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

"WTF? You're an owned piece of meat. What does it matter what you want? This isn't a democracy".

Yeah-I hafta admit,that does kinda sound like something I'd say

_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to lovethyself)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Contracts? - 1/9/2014 12:52:42 PM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAnne68

I don't use contracts.

I tell my slave what I want and if he doesn't want to do it, he can walk. It's as easy as that.

My slave is a domestic slave - he does the housework and chores. I tell/show him how to do the work.
I'll discuss any issues he has with his assignments. But ultimately, if he doesn't do the work to my satisfaction, I don't invite him back.

I think that the best result comes from a slave who wants to do the work.




What I got from the OP was that he is referring to a long term romantic relationship. Not someone who cleans up. Call it what you want anne, slave whatever. Someone that stops by and washes my Windows is a maid.

I know the best results come from a slave that wants to please me

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Contracts? - 1/9/2014 8:12:31 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

"WTF? You're an owned piece of meat. What does it matter what you want? This isn't a democracy".

Yeah-I hafta admit,that does kinda sound like something I'd say


Do I know you well or what?

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 33
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