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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/19/2014 6:51:09 AM   
Milesnmiles


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
I would be all set if one could explain the violations of physics stuff. Creating bleedin fish and bread from thin air? How do we set up a double blind experiment for that? Turning water into wine. A good capitalist, I must ask, why not gold, and will forego the physics of it, if a credible retort can be given to the gold question.
Violations of physics stuff? Do you really think the creator of the universe, who made everything out of nothing, would have a problem making a little wine, fish or bread from nothing?

apparently, since it must be the story got better in the telling, because he will not demonstrate it now, where it can be seen by everyone and therefore be the most efficaicious way of demonstrating his existance, and of spreading the gospel.
The gospel has spread pretty well without repeated demonstrations.
quote:

As it stands, there are absolutely no witnesses to these 'events', not in history, not in person.
Anything else requires the machinations of man, and is not 'the word of god'.
What you mean is there are no living witnesses at this time. At the time the witnesses amounted to five thousand men, besides women and young children.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/19/2014 6:52:15 AM   
Milesnmiles


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
I'm referring to having an incredibly low standard of evidence for your pet theory and an impossibly high burden of evidence for every other while actively playing goalie to rationalize the preponderance of evidence away.
It is amazing how much a person has to ignore to say things like this. ;-)


Ignore what? You've got nothing, we agreed that far back on page 14.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
Of course you know that this is not proof that the census story never happened. It is just "proof" that at this time there no evidence for it.

I don't know what you "agreed to" but I agreed that at this time neither of us have proof for what we were talking about at the time. ;-)

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/19/2014 6:53:44 AM   
Milesnmiles


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
So for example someone who would murder a child they considered good in order to sadistically torture another human being would make for a bad judge regardless of the extent of their knowledge.
What? What are you talking about?


quote:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Kings+14%3A9-16&version=NLT
9 You have done more evil than all who lived before you. You have made other gods for yourself and have made me furious with your gold calves. And since you have turned your back on me, 10 I will bring disaster on your dynasty and will destroy every one of your male descendants, slave and free alike, anywhere in Israel. I will burn up your royal dynasty as one burns up trash until it is all gone. 11 The members of Jeroboam’s family who die in the city will be eaten by dogs, and those who die in the field will be eaten by vultures. I, the Lord, have spoken.’”

12 Then Ahijah said to Jeroboam’s wife, “Go on home, and when you enter the city, the child will die. 13 All Israel will mourn for him and bury him. He is the only member of your family who will have a proper burial, for this child is the only good thing that the Lord, the God of Israel, sees in the entire family of Jeroboam.

14 “In addition, the Lord will raise up a king over Israel who will destroy the family of Jeroboam. This will happen today, even now! 15 Then the Lord will shake Israel like a reed whipped about in a stream. He will uproot the people of Israel from this good land that he gave their ancestors and will scatter them beyond the Euphrates River,[a] for they have angered the Lord with the Asherah poles they have set up for worship. 16 He will abandon Israel because Jeroboam sinned and made Israel sin along with him.”


Yep that's right the character Yahweh will murder a child he considers good to spite the father out of rage.
Strange, I didn't read there that "Yahweh" murdered that child.

Perhaps you have another scripture to show me that says that.

Until then I stand by the fact that "Yahweh" having the quality of omniscience is able to know what is best for all concerned, unlike you, who has no idea what tomorrow may bring.

Like all of your ilk, you ignore the fact of the resurrection, that "murdered" child was removed from a very bad situation and now is asleep in death awaiting a resurrection to a paradise earth where he will have the opportunity to live forever.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/19/2014 6:54:56 AM   
Milesnmiles


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
So you are questioning God's judgement?


Oh there's no question the literary character Yahweh is very clearly a megalomaniac sociopath who even describes himself as jealous and vengeful. Because of these personality failings Moses has to spend a disturbingly large amount of the old testament begging/bargaining/pleading/reasoning Yahweh out of murdering everybody.

I must say you have a very selective memory and a very unique definition of the word "murder". Remind me, were these people just "innocent" bystanders to "Yahweh's" "murderous rage".


< Message edited by Milesnmiles -- 1/19/2014 6:55:17 AM >

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/19/2014 7:30:07 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Judging speculations and opinions of other posters as vacuous pronouncements without resort to countering those opinions when given the opportunity is transparently the shallow, evasive technique of someone who either is unable to engage in civil discourse, lacks his own convictions, or is merely a game playing troll.

Those are some of the possibilities. Another one is that the "speculations and opinions" were perceived to be vacuous because their proponent couldn't even give a cogent answer to the simple question "Why?"

K.


The answer was clear enough to merit a thoughtful reply. However, some posters prefer to play the troll game. Lame.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/19/2014 7:32:13 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
Strange, I didn't read there that "Yahweh" murdered that child.


"I will bring disaster on your dynasty and will destroy every one of your male descendants, slave and free alike, anywhere in Israel. I will burn up your royal dynasty as one burns up trash until it is all gone. 11 The members of Jeroboam’s family who die in the city will be eaten by dogs, and those who die in the field will be eaten by vultures. I, the Lord, have spoken.’” "






Attachment (1)

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Profile   Post #: 386
RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/19/2014 7:38:30 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

The ascension is speculative shit on the part of Christians who followed later.

Try to get with the programme.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbabarrett31

lets base this disscusion on christanity if we can

K.

There was nothing in the OP that specified Christianity. Nor anything in the passage referred by GS to imply Christian belief. Quite amazing how some posters become self-appointed Mods, innit?

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/19/2014 7:43:38 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

Like all of your ilk, you ignore the fact of the resurrection, that "murdered" child was removed from a very bad situation and now is asleep in death awaiting a resurrection to a paradise earth where he will have the opportunity to live forever.

The FACT of resurrection? Wow! If it is a fact it can be demonstrated and perhaps tested? Have you not stepped out of the boundaries of Faith? Oh, yes. Btw, dat boy gon have a long wait.

quote:

Until then I stand by the fact that "Yahweh" having the quality of omniscience is able to know what is best for all concerned, unlike you, who has no idea what tomorrow may bring.

Does that justify His silence during the Holocaust I wonder?

Your comment in an earlier post on the previous page:

quote:

Opinions don't require evidence, not even mine but when you state things as fact, well that does require evidence or proof. ;-)

So, once again: the FACT of the resurrection? And the FACT of His omniscience???

< Message edited by vincentML -- 1/19/2014 7:52:12 AM >

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/19/2014 7:44:22 AM   
chatterbox24


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Status: offline 		I believe knowledge came first, and from the beginning of time we as human beings were placed here to process that knowledge, to learn consequences of taking one path over another path. Self control and sticking to ancient moral concepts hold true to bring rewards, although it may be years or another lifetime before we receive those rewards. I think its about placement as to where we will reside after death here on earth. Are we capable to fight the demons that each and everyone of us have inside of us. Because everyone one of us do have weakness we are sent to work on in this lifetime. WIll we gain the knowledge to conquer and reside into a higher plane, or will we fail to learn what we were sent here to learn, and fail to believe we are here for a higher purpose beyond what we know here. WHat lays ahead is beyond human comprehension, and what is taught is not that of politically correct, but standing for morals that may not reflect that of an ever changing world.
Its very basic if your a CHristian but very complicated too. Do you eat of the tree of knowledge, that brings you pain? SOmetimes the paths we chose do not show such an instant result as dramatically shown in the Bible. It is only an example of what happens when one choses to indulge of flesh instead of higher intellect, spirit calling, and sticking to codes instead of desires.

SO to answer the question, yes religion in the best form is to control knowledge, to adhere to the written word, and not to indulge in the wrong path.

_____________________________

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My crazy smells like jasmine, cloves and cat nip.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/19/2014 7:55:23 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Judging speculations and opinions of other posters as vacuous pronouncements without resort to countering those opinions when given the opportunity is transparently the shallow, evasive technique of someone who either is unable to engage in civil discourse, lacks his own convictions, or is merely a game playing troll.


They have a button to fix that:





Thank you but more fun to see what silly-ass comments will come forth next.

(in reply to GotSteel)
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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/19/2014 7:58:37 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule



Take two aspirins and call me in the morning. Tell me what's bothering you, bubby.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/19/2014 8:10:57 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

SO to answer the question, yes religion in the best form is to control knowledge, to adhere to the written word, and not to indulge in the wrong path.

One who reveals the truth. You are correct. Knowledge is power and dangerous power when priests conspire with princes and politicians.

quote:

It is only an example of what happens when one choses to indulge of flesh instead of higher intellect, spirit calling, and sticking to codes instead of desires.


Thus, are we denied an essential dimension of our humanity. The self-appointed priests insinuate their power into what we do naked within our private rooms to control us as sheep with their dogma. A bit overdramatic of me I will admit but fun in the writing, and no less true. History has abundant examples of this structural power over people. Can't think of an era when it was not so. Can you?

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/19/2014 9:07:44 AM   
Milesnmiles


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
Strange, I didn't read there that "Yahweh" murdered that child.


"I will bring disaster on your dynasty and will destroy every one of your male descendants, slave and free alike, anywhere in Israel. I will burn up your royal dynasty as one burns up trash until it is all gone. 11 The members of Jeroboam’s family who die in the city will be eaten by dogs, and those who die in the field will be eaten by vultures. I, the Lord, have spoken.’” "





The inability to read is strong with this one.

Once again, I did see the word "murder" anywhere in that scripture, let a lone that he "murdered" the child, perhaps you need some help with your reading comprehension. ;-)

(in reply to GotSteel)
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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/19/2014 9:26:50 AM   
Milesnmiles


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
The FACT of resurrection? Wow! If it is a fact it can be demonstrated and perhaps tested?
It is something that has happened and was witnessed by many. Just because you weren't here doesn't mean it didn't happen.
quote:

Have you not stepped out of the boundaries of Faith? Oh, yes.
Oh no, I haven't.
quote:

Btw, dat boy gon have a long wait.
To the child it will seem instantaneous, like going to sleep and waking up the next morning.
quote:

Does that justify His silence during the Holocaust I wonder?
Justify? If mankind followed the principles already put forth by God in his word the Bible, the Holocaust would not have happened. Now because mankind ignores the principles God has laid out to be followed and kill each other in large numbers it is God's fault?
quote:

So, once again: the FACT of the resurrection?
It is something that has happened and was witnessed by many. Just because you weren't here doesn't mean it didn't happen.
quote:

And the FACT of His omniscience???
God by definition has the quality of omniscience. If not, he is at least is so much more intelligent than man, that man's intelligence is like that of a rock in comparison.



< Message edited by Milesnmiles -- 1/19/2014 9:29:39 AM >

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/19/2014 10:04:25 AM   
chatterbox24


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Status: offline 		No I can not.

This is why I believe it's very important people read and find their very own paths. We all have individual destinations. Sometimes you have to be the sheep in wolves clothing. Know when to follow and know when not too. If you were in a meadow even a well fed wolf would prefer the sheep in the meadow rather then wolves. Wolves are predators and will eat their own if let to their own devices. But sheep would starve and it would never occur to them to eat their own.
That's the difference between animals and humans. We have superior choices to be either a wolf or a sheep and the intellect when to be either with the right knowledge.

_____________________________

I am like a box of chocolates, you never know what variety you are going to get on any given day.

My crazy smells like jasmine, cloves and cat nip.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/19/2014 10:29:26 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
Once again, I did see the word "murder" anywhere in that scripture, let a lone that he "murdered" the child, perhaps you need some help with your reading comprehension. ;-)


O.K. I could use a laugh, what do you think destroying/burning up the good child means?

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Profile   Post #: 396
RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/19/2014 10:52:48 AM   
Milesnmiles


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
Once again, I did see the word "murder" anywhere in that scripture, let a lone that he "murdered" the child, perhaps you need some help with your reading comprehension. ;-)


O.K. I could use a laugh, what do you think destroying/burning up the good child means?
Perhaps this will help you with your reading comprehension; "Murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human". (Wikipedia)

Interestingly, none of this definition applies to God.

Did you enjoy your "laugh"? ;-)

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/19/2014 2:54:31 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
]Perhaps this will help you with your reading comprehension; "Murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human". (Wikipedia)

Interestingly, none of this definition applies to God.


Remember how we were talking about that issue with your thought process:

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
ignore/bend/invent everything else to fit that presupposition


This is another perfect example. You're contesting my statement that Yahweh murders innocent children because out of the multiple common definitions for the word murder you chose to misattribute one of the definitions that didn't fit instead of using a appropriate definition. In other words you're bending things to fit your presupposition.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/19/2014 2:58:37 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

In other words you're bending things to fit your presupposition.

A couple of corrections:

1. Presuppositions, plural.
2. Replace "things" with everything.

K.


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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/19/2014 3:08:19 PM   
GotSteel


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Status: offline 		Let's talk about some of the more contextually appropriate definitions for murder.

Ponder for a moment that we've been talking about the killing of a good child, innocent of the "crime" for which punishment is being carried out. This good child is killed specifically to sadistically torture someone else.

Ergo it would be reasonable to conclude that my use of the word is to convey my sense of abhorrence at the cruel and unreasonable nature of the act stemming solely from Yahweh's own anger management problems as opposed to anything the child deserved.

So you should be looking at definitions more like these instead of disregarding my point on account of a technical loophole which you added to my statement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/murder
5. to kill or slaughter inhumanly or barbarously.


quote:

ORIGINAL: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/murder
2. To kill brutally or inhumanly.


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