RE: Respecting cultures within kink

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MariaB -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/19/2014 1:47:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SoulAlloy quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB BDSM in the UK is breaking itself up into smaller and smaller groups. We have the under 30s parties, the Domme male sub parties, the Dom female sub parties, the over 40s parties, the hard core parties, the fluffy parties and so on. Its so diluted that clubs fight to survive because why pay to go to an event when you can go to a select private party at someone's house? From where I'm sitting, the whole broad social structure of BDSM doesn't exist any more. I actually have to disagree entirely, this has not been my experience of the UK scene over the last year at all - certainly in the NW the number of people attending has risen so dramatically that all these extra events are springing up simply because they can, and the more generic events are filling up to capacity so not everyone who wants to go can attend. Munches have diversified, but the crossover between them is still very high, the same goes for events. A few years ago there was something similar to what you described, a new venue sprang up, and rather than try to coexist with the existing events around it tried to become the only place for events and clashed with four other venues - due to the lack of common sense in this, it folded. Newer venues have sprung up, and they have recognised the simple fact that if you want to be a success you have to work with the existing structure, not attempt to force your own over it. Actually I said that generic events will always be full to capacity. If I wanted to make money as a club promoter in this scene, I would open a generic event because these people come out in droves. I don't know a lot about outside of London. I have heard that Birmingham is on the up BDSM wise but little else. Londoners don't tend to go outside of London, darn, I ran a club south of the river and whilst people would come in coach loads from Scotland, people north of the river thought it was too far! As far as coexisting, its good if you can but in London that's a much tougher aim. Club rentals are very high and the owner tends to dictate what Saturday you can have the club. We regularly clashed with other clubs, big and small. If there aren't enough Saturdays in the month you end up running on the same night. This of course means your door take is down, everyone's door take is down. It becomes about, how long can you sustain that loss? can you afford to put your prices up? Another nightmare at putting on a London BDSM promotion is, the bar takes always down and when the bar takes down the owner wants compensation. Fetish events on the other hand, take huge bar takes and so venues become more available to them when they want them. I always said, if the north gets its act together it could have a great scene because venues cost peanuts compared to London. Sounds like that's happened. Unfortunately this hasn't happened on my home turf.

ClassAct2006 -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/19/2014 3:05:11 AM)
Tolerance of others is always a good thing. My sexuality is innate and just like someone born gay I don't need to be in a group or stay up late drinking alcohol in order to practise it. I am as I am in my relationships with dominant men. There is a parallel with gay culture - plenty of gay men never go near a gay club or march or assert rights - they just live a life in a long relationship with another man. Others are part of groups and some are activists. Same with BDSM. Some of us are not in groups at all (probably most because I suspect many who are dom or sub don't even have the words to describe that but end up with a partner who fits their needs) and others are.

orgasmdenial12 -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/19/2014 4:27:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB I always said, if the north gets its act together it could have a great scene because venues cost peanuts compared to London. Sounds like that's happened. Unfortunately this hasn't happened on my home turf. Having lived and played in both Manchester and London, it's my opinion that the northern scene is and always has been better than the London scene for several reasons. Firstly, it's easy to get anywhere. Even events in 'far out' places like Bury and Bolton can easily and cheaply be got to on public transport in less than an hour, whereas I regularly find myself travelling 2+ hours to get to events in London. Secondly, they are cheaper to get into. My two favourite events in Manchester cost £5 and £8 compared to £20+ for events in London. Thirdly, there is more playing and less posing in Manchester. People do still dress up, but there is little in the way of a committed rubber or fetish scene, with the exception of very large events like Lash. Fourthly, everyone knows each other up north, or knows someone who knows them. It's easy to go to events on my own and bump into people I know and hang around with their crowd. In London, I have to rely on knowing specific people at a given events, who I may not see at any other events. Fifth - there is a better atmosphere at Manchester munches and play parties, particularly events in and around central London which tend to be very posy, very cliquey, very 'yuppie' for want of a better word. The best events in London tend to be the ones on the outskirts or those that have worked hard to build up a reputation for being good 'play' parties (as opposed to nightclubs with a little bit of play) such as Ann's kinky play parties. London has a much bigger scene and many more events but it is very much a case of quantity over quality, imo, and expensive quantity at that.

MariaB -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/19/2014 5:27:34 AM)
@ Orgasmdenial. I think it depends. I can go to London clubs and know a lot of people but the time I came up to the former Nemesis as well as Lash, Club O and Swamp, I only knew a couple of people, I found them unfriendly and cliquey but that was only my perception of a place where I didn't know people. BDSM for me is 90% social and if I can't socialize I don't go back. Clubs like Sweet Torments (just been re-launched) west London, is a fairly small and very much BDSM orientated club. The likelihood is, if you go to the London Munch or you go to that club on a regular basis you will quickly get to know most of the people who go and they will all be into BDSM one way or another. I've been to Anne (Anne & Rollies ?) and I didn't enjoy it but then that's not my scene. The bigger clubs in London are mostly fet events rather than BDSM ones. Subversion, Club Rub and the infamous Torture Garden. Its much more about dressing up and embracing your fetish. Personally I love those clubs, they are vibrant and colourful and friendly. I have never once come across a cliquey crowd in any of those clubs but perhaps that's because I spend my night recognising people I haven't seen for a while and spend time catching up. Us humans tend to be happier with familiar faces around us. BDSM is an expensive night out in London. Its not because club promoters are making a killing though, its because everything in London is marked up. I wouldn't consider paying £20 or £25 for a night that goes on from 10pm to 6am in a fabulous venue that has performers, good DJ's and decent equipment overly expensive but then that's what I'm used to. One of the things I have noticed about clubs outside London is, the scenes are restricted. Apart from Club O where they just told me to go for it, other clubs (former Nemesis and Swamp come to mind) don't want you doing anything that might upset the punters. Lots of lightweight stuff going on but nothing that stops you in your tracks.

crazyml -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/19/2014 5:45:59 AM)
Yeah, this chimes with me. I generally try to respect other cultures, but I have to draw a line somewhere, and a movement that really sees women, glb people, tansexuals, or people of a particular race as some how less is horseshit. But it's not generally the "culture" that's the problem. It's people. Any dude who has spent any time on these boards who insists that only dom men should answer on the ask a master board isn't telling me about his culture, he's just signalling that he's a dick. The fact is that there are a fair few goreans that contribute a lot on the broader boards, they don't shout about their goreanness... because they don't need to. Sure there a few self professed goreans who are tosspots... but no culture or movement ever had a monopoly on assholes...

orgasmdenial12 -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/19/2014 8:04:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB Its much more about dressing up and embracing your fetish. My fetish is s&m so - no play = no fetish, for me. I get that people have all different kinks and our opinion of clubs varies based on what we are hoping for from that club but, in Manchester, one can easily wear fetish clothes to the nightclubs and bars (there's a big gay / rock / goth scene) which cost either nothing or a couple of quid to get in - so to pay £20 just to dress up seems excessive to me. But, each to their own. quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB I wouldn't consider paying £20 or £25 for a night that goes on from 10pm to 6am in a fabulous venue that has performers, good DJ's and decent equipment overly expensive but then that's what I'm used to. Well, it depends whether you find performers and DJs interesting. I personally have no interest in any of that at a play party - for me it's about space, equipment and play and I wouldn't want to be paying extra for entertainment that I have no interest in. Yes, it once again boils down to what you are looking for. As someone into s&m, my interest in music, burlesque and performance is extremely limited. The best music I've heard at an event was at a recent Christmas munch where one of the regulars made a playlist on her ipad and plugged it into the venues equipment - we danced to cheesy rock for hours and had an absolute blast, for free. I don't go to play parties to dance, so a DJ to me would be pointless and, often, irritating, if they play annoying techno music that stops me getting into a scene. quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB One of the things I have noticed about clubs outside London is, the scenes are restricted. Apart from Club O where they just told me to go for it, other clubs (former Nemesis and Swamp come to mind) don't want you doing anything that might upset the punters. Lots of lightweight stuff going on but nothing that stops you in your tracks. I think one of the big differences between London and Manchester is that play parties in London tend to be very big, in big venues with lots of people, whereas play parties in Manchester, with the exception of Lash, tend to be small events with a much higher level and quality of play. The most disappointing play tends to happen at the big clubs, where it is very public with very little play atmosphere, and the best play seems to happen more spontaneously and fluidly at smaller clubs. For example, a friend recently went to Antichrist and was very disappointed with the amount of standing around talking and the lack of play, which almost never happens at smaller parties. So I've never seen play restricted in any party I've been to outside of London, but admittedly I've never been to Nemesis or Swamp (although I thought Swamp was more southern than northern).

njlauren -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/19/2014 8:35:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB quote: ORIGINAL: njlauren I don't see the old seperatism that once existed, pan events and groups seem much much common, and there isn't the divide their once was between gay and straight and dyke, and with lifestyle BD/SM people I have seen and know, most of them love to share knowledge with others, they love the lifestyle, but they also don't preach the 'true faith', either, and most of them hate that type as much as I do. njiauren, your entire post was really good but I only quoted this bit because its the bit I wanted to reply to. I'm glad your experience is more positive than mine but then we both come from different lands. We go to a lot of fetish events. We love them because they always feel like a carnival of bizarre, whacky and wonderful. Its interesting that we see very few of the BDSM crowd at these events. BDSM friends tell us they hate fet clubs because there are so many people into so much weirdness. A regular fetish club we attend has two thousand people coming through the door on a Saturday night, the biggest BDSM club we attend has a couple of hundred at most. I've always wondered why the fetishsts don't come out and support the BDSM clubs and why there seems to be such a wide divide between the two. Truth is, most fetishsts don't get an introduction into what BDSM is and BDSM with its dark clothing and grungy music isn't exciting enough. BDSM in the UK is breaking itself up into smaller and smaller groups. We have the under 30s parties, the Domme male sub parties, the Dom female sub parties, the over 40s parties, the hard core parties, the fluffy parties and so on. Its so diluted that clubs fight to survive because why pay to go to an event when you can go to a select private party at someone's house? From where I'm sitting, the whole broad social structure of BDSM doesn't exist any more. You raise interesting questions that I can't really answer. The fetish thing used to be associated with BD/SM, when I used to go to BD/SM clubs I used to see people in all this incredible regalia, who didn't play or seem to associate with those who played, and kind of had an attitude if you were not 'dressed to the nines', and it puzzled me until a friend explained about the fetish community and what it was..... As far as the fragmentation of BD/SM, I think a lot of that may have to do with people being more comfortable with having their own private events (just a guess, no science behind this). Back in the 'bad old days', while obviously there were private events, I suspect that the clubs were places though even though they were public, that were safe space, people were too afraid if they hosted private parties and such too much risk of cops and nosy neighbors and such (and probably, no doubt, back in the bad old days I wouldn't be surprised if BD/SM clubs paid off cops to leave them alone, the way gay bars used to pre stonewall). ..it also could be that I simply hung out in quarters where things were so fragmented, it could be, it is why I always characterize things with "what I have seen" and so forth.......

ResidentSadist -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/19/2014 1:48:56 PM)
Was the OP about Goreans? I thought they died off as a movement when AOL fell out of fashion, that was some years ago. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP Remove your own ego from the fight. Easier said than done. But that is the crux of it IMO. Once you take yourself (image) out of it, it doesn't matter if there is one true way or not. All "gods" creatures unto their own paths. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact My fault. Entirely My fault....... This wasn't particularly a Leather vrs Gorean thread. It was more of a 'can we stop the "only males are Masters" bullshit' kind of thread? Let Me explain....... We've got a lot of threads lately where folks are slamming their dicks on the table because females answer. I know the site and I know the rules. I thought, maybe, this could be a platform for hashing that out. Edited because questions usually come with a question mark at the end. The inverse just happened to DarkSteven for answering in the Ask a Mistress forums. In real life, when we see someone pissing in their own waterhole, we think them a fool and write them off. I do not know how you can do this online without biased moderation. I helped run a small forum of 80k. Although small, they were more active than CM with a larger membership logged in. I was the henchman, second only to the forum's creator. The ambiance was extremely friendly and it had a constructive attitude because I banned everyone that opposed that mindset. I wielded the ban stick brutally and ALL trolls died a public death in a sticky where we hung their evil little heads on spikes with links to what got them perma banned (IP banned). It was biased moderation, with a positive slant on the bias.

LadyPact -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/19/2014 5:44:34 PM)
Two things to begin. First, I'd like to thank everyone who has been contributing to the thread. Second, I do apologize for not being as attentive to it as I normally would. Since I had some time scheduled with My submissive, I was focusing on what happens within the walls of My own home. Thank you for your patience. quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist The inverse just happened to DarkSteven for answering in the Ask a Mistress forums. I appreciate you pointing that out. Since I was occupied, I didn't see that when it first happened. I suppose the best I can say about it is that it was very timely for this thread. Thanks to the prompting, I went and had a look. It is a case of what, I felt, was probably a different focus. While I think it would be an awesome thing for folks who are new to the site would read ToS and forum guidelines before jumping into the deep end of the pool, I also know that it doesn't really happen that way. Hey, for what it's worth, I didn't either, and folks made sure that I became educated. However, on the "Ask A Mistress" board, the replies that ensued are a rather good example of what a person will generally see. A number of Dominant women came along and basically said, "we don't do that here". It's not something that I see a lot on the poly board, either, where monogamous people are asked (or, rather, I should probably say "told") that their responses aren't welcome because they are not in that category. I do sincerely wish that I had been more clear that this thread wasn't started as a Gorean vrs Leather type of thing. Personally, I happen to think that I get treated pretty well by a fairly high percentage of those who identify as Gorean. I figure, that's not too shabby for a leather chick. I think there are fewer of us in each of those respective cultures now. At least on these boards, at any rate. You've been around here (CM) about the same amount of time, RS, so I know you've seen some of the ways these thing come out. I just figured we'd have a shot at not derailing other threads about it.

mummyman321 -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/20/2014 9:16:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact A little background for the story. Some have heard the preamble before....... I've been hanging around this website for coming up on seven years. I got brought here by My submissive at the time, whom I fondly called pet. To be honest, I outright laughed at first. The name "Collar Me" kind of had Me wondering if the joint had folks running around, begging folks to collar them via online methods. I rolled My eyes a bit, but pet so enthusiastically wanted Me to have access to his journals so I could read his writings here, and it was such a simple thing that made him happy, so I created an account. I was literally one of those folks who signed on and created a profile that said, "I'll fill this out later". Didn't think much of it. Certainly wasn't looking for anything at the time, and good God knows I had more dang email than I knew what to do with. Why bother? I already had everything that I wanted. Fast forward a bit. That dynamic ended. I flushed out the profile. Realized there were a bunch of people posting on the forums that I already knew. (I lived on the GA/SC border at the time, and was having My escapades from AIRS, to Atlanta, and in T3WD, so folks can figure that out without Me naming old posters.) I certainly wasn't the token leather chick back then. Made an ass of Myself at first, like most new folks do. Picked Myself up and dusted off a bit. Read a bit more. Then, one day, by chance, I was poking around these forums, and I found this certain thread. No, it wasn't the famous "tap, tap, tap" thread. (Though, I've enjoyed that thread many times since.) Instead, it was this thread about "building bridges". Written by somebody who, I thought, at the time, identified as a Gorean Man, and was sort of sticking out the olive branch between our two cultures. We really could respect other cultures within kink. Unfortunately, as it happens so often, and has frequently happened of late, we are still fighting between cultures. It seems to become this dick slamming contest and no bridge is built. So, without further ado, and without making a mess on other threads where this discussion is out of place, I would like to hear your thoughts on how all of the cultures can coincide? I really have not a lot of interaction with the Gore culture. I have been around swinger cultures and pagan cultures. While neither I would identify as part of BDSM culture I do tend to seem them dabble more into the BDSM than say vanillas. When you say culture that tends to bring up stereotypes of how those people behave and act. I would say you need to look past their culture and see the person behind the culture. The key to getting along is getting to know people in the culture. Sit down talk to them, get to know them on a personal level. I have been lucky enough to travel all over the world for work; China, Brazil, Germany, Argentina, England, Russia and more. If you take the time to know people. Ask a lot of questions about their culture, explain a little of your culture, I have found that goes a long way to being respected and earning their respect. While this example is not exactly BDSM related the same principle applies. Cultures can be stereotyped as can people. Like an America saying a German is stubborn. I give this example because I deal with my company's German Engineering office all the time. All my America Engineers always complain about the German Engineers being so stubborn (think of design reviews over a phone with people you have not met face to face). Then after years of doing this you finally get to meet them in person for a business trip. Then you realize they have a system of how to do their work and it is not the same are yours. Both get the work done, but their method is not the same. When you understand why the other culture does work a different way then you begin to understand they are not being stubborn but it is how they do their work The key to coinciding with others is understanding them and respecting them. Throw away your notions of their culture and get to know them. Cultures are made up of people. Get to know the people and you know their culture. There will always be a person you can never see eye to eye with. But on the majority I have found if I make the effort to understand the person, whether it be vanilla or BDSM wise, I begin to understand the culture they belong too and I can be friends with them.

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