Mostly a rant - casual use of the word 'rape'

Mostly a rant - casual use of the word 'rape' (Full Version)

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AthenaSurrenders -> Mostly a rant - casual use of the word 'rape' (1/21/2014 6:47:54 AM)
This came up on another site. A guy didn't like the new Star Trek movies and said, repeatedly and emphatically, that his childhood had been 'raped'. I called him out, saying simply that it's pretty low to compare a film he didn't like to the trauma of rape. Unsurprisingly, I was referred to as the 'political correctness police' and it was suggested that I don't understand figurative language. Since it's obvious there wasn't a literal rape, I was overreacting. I have some pretty strong feelings about this. I feel it's disrespectful to people who have actually been through sexual assault and that by trivializing rape through such casual comparisons and jokes it creates the impression of it being 'not that bad' and somewhat acceptable in our culture. I also think that his dismissal of the fact that it could be offensive is indicative of someone who has never had to worry about sexual assault and really had no concept of what it's like. Sure people can say whatever they want, but is it really 'political correctness' to suggest that some topics aren't appropriate for casually slinging around? Calling the films 'a pile of shit' would also have been figurative, but without touching on anyone's personal trauma or trivializing a serious crime. What are your thoughts? Are any topics off-limits, socially? I'm not talking freedom of speech here; I know he has the right to say his childhood memories were raped just as I have the right to call him a cunt (which I did not, for the record). But should we discourage the use of certain topics in jokes and such, or should these things be socially acceptable?

sunshinemiss -> RE: Mostly a rant - casual use of the word 'rape' (1/21/2014 7:30:56 AM)
I never liked cunt as an insult. Many rape survivors have worked damn hard to take back the beauty of theirs. Just a thought.

AthenaSurrenders -> RE: Mostly a rant - casual use of the word 'rape' (1/21/2014 7:43:14 AM)
Fair point, I suppose that is somewhat hypocritical of me. Though for the record, I didn't call him any sort of insulting name.

MisterP61 -> RE: Mostly a rant - casual use of the word 'rape' (1/21/2014 8:00:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders This came up on another site. A guy didn't like the new Star Trek movies and said, repeatedly and emphatically, that his childhood had been 'raped'. I called him out, saying simply that it's pretty low to compare a film he didn't like to the trauma of rape. First off, tell the person that South Park already beat him to this line (Indiana Jones and The Kingdom of the Chrystal Skull) and they are way behind their time. quote: Unsurprisingly, I was referred to as the 'political correctness police' and it was suggested that I don't understand figurative language. Since it's obvious there wasn't a literal rape, I was overreacting. Sorry. <insert sarcasm here> How dare you refer to such a brutal act on a person and misconstrue the "figuretiveness" of it <end sarcasm here>. quote: I have some pretty strong feelings about this. I feel it's disrespectful to people who have actually been through sexual assault and that by trivializing rape through such casual comparisons and jokes it creates the impression of it being 'not that bad' and somewhat acceptable in our culture. I also think that his dismissal of the fact that it could be offensive is indicative of someone who has never had to worry about sexual assault and really had no concept of what it's like. You know, I think most sensible and/or sensitive actual human beings will agree with this statement. I do not agree with the last part, because I know men who have been raped by other men, so there really is no gender specificity to rape. quote: Sure people can say whatever they want, but is it really 'political correctness' to suggest that some topics aren't appropriate for casually slinging around? Calling the films 'a pile of shit' would also have been figurative, but without touching on anyone's personal trauma or trivializing a serious crime. I just agree. Horrible film, piece of horse dung, not worth the time, or any other thing works here. Personally,to Me, anyone who saw the first one knows and understands, and even accepts what they (the directors and producers) said about it is a reboot series with the whole time travel thing and changing of how Kirk came to be the captain of the Enterprise. If you do not watch the second one with that in mind, then yeah you won't like it. I think people tend to forget that the actual Star Trek movies were exactly that... movies. That shit really didn't happen. Just saying. quote: What are your thoughts? Are any topics off-limits, socially? I'm not talking freedom of speech here; I know he has the right to say his childhood memories were raped just as I have the right to call him a cunt (which I did not, for the record). But should we discourage the use of certain topics in jokes and such, or should these things be socially acceptable? Socially acceptable. IMO no, but like you said he has a right to say them, but more importantly, you have the right to feel and say as you do about it. That's the problem with most who will claim "free speech". As long as you don't disagree with the opinion, then you are allotted yours. Disagree and you are being PC or any other crap they can come up with to try to shame you out of your opinion.

kalikshama -> RE: Mostly a rant - casual use of the word 'rape' (1/21/2014 8:12:23 AM)
quote: I feel it's disrespectful to people who have actually been through sexual assault and that by trivializing rape through such casual comparisons and jokes it creates the impression of it being 'not that bad' and somewhat acceptable in our culture. Agreed. Politics and the Rape Metaphor ... a montage of the use of rape as a metaphor by right wing pundits (trigger warning). To be fair, I don’t know if a similar video could be made using left wing pundits, so it may be best in comments to stick to a conversation about the metaphor itself. Why it this such a popular way of talking about the world? How does it work? Does the metaphor, given that we think of rape as a crime that men do to women, feminize and masculinize? Or is it about a gendering of the very notion of violation and vulnerability? So are these pundits trying to transfer listener’s beliefs about protecting women and girls to other categories (e.g., the rich and the people of New York)? Does using it as a metaphor give more power to, or trivialize and make invisible, actual rape? Is there not some irony in how frequently we use it to describe something horribly violating, given the high rates of rape in the U.S., the frequency of non-reporting, our dismal treatment of victims, and the wildly low incidence of trials and convictions? See also our post on violent metaphors, including rape. Watch video: http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2013/03/21/politics-and-the-rape-metaphor/

kalikshama -> RE: Mostly a rant - casual use of the word 'rape' (1/21/2014 8:16:36 AM)
Violent Metaphors I’ve always found it troubling when I hear people use the word “Nazi” metaphorically. Terms like “fashion nazi,” “food nazi,” even Seinfeld’s famous “soup nazi” episode, seem to trivialize the Holocaust. Of course, we often recognize the hyperbole and that’s part of what is supposed to make it funny. But do we really want to make fun with such an idea? Lots of people didn’t like it when PETA did it. In any case, I was thinking about similar uses of the word “rape.” The word “rape” seems to be everywhere. People use it not just for its literal meaning, but to describe all manner of unpleasant experiences. For example, in this story at bestweekever: [image]http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/files/2009/02/capture8.jpg[/image] Do other societies use words like rape and murder metaphorically? Have we always done so? Must we? Or are there alternatives that may be more sensitive to people who lost loved ones in the Holocaust, were raped, or knew someone who was murdered? All of this to introduce a cartoon from Principia Comica, sent in by Markus B., that aims to illustrate the absurdity of using “rape” as a metaphor: [image]http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/files/2009/02/conshift.png[/image] Or maybe this cartoon is even more subversive. Maybe it is suggesting that we feel comfortable being flippant about pain that disproportionately affects women, but not pain that affects men.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Mostly a rant - casual use of the word 'rape' (1/21/2014 8:48:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders Sure people can say whatever they want, but is it really 'political correctness' to suggest that some topics aren't appropriate for casually slinging around? Calling the films 'a pile of shit' would also have been figurative, but without touching on anyone's personal trauma or trivializing a serious crime. I think your focus is misdirected. Much more serious than over-the-top metaphor is the fact that people in "civilized" western countries call for rape to be used as a punishment. "Good thing he was convicted, hope he enjoys himself in federal pound-my-ass prison." That sort of thing. The childhood-rape metaphor is basically a rape joke. You might think rape jokes are never funny, but you won't ever convince the rest of the world to share your sense of humor. People who invoke rape in all seriousness are easier targets, and are espousing a more dangerous ideology.

igor2003 -> RE: Mostly a rant - casual use of the word 'rape' (1/21/2014 9:03:24 AM)
Do you also get upset over the use of the word "slave", since the family histories of many people includes true slavery and all it's atrocities? Do you get upset with all of the little pay-princess findomes that claim to want to "rape" men's wallets? Do you get upset over the use of the term "forced bi"...not because they aren't really forced, but because it trivializes the act for those that really have been forced? Both BDSM and mainstream life is filled with terms taken from real acts of a deplorable nature, but used in a casual way. Personally, when you have a pet peeve with only one of those terms or it's uses, it seems a little petty. Sadly, if you get all PC over the casual use of all those various terms you kind of diminish (should I say "rape"?) the English language.

AthenaSurrenders -> RE: Mostly a rant - casual use of the word 'rape' (1/21/2014 9:59:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 quote: ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders Sure people can say whatever they want, but is it really 'political correctness' to suggest that some topics aren't appropriate for casually slinging around? Calling the films 'a pile of shit' would also have been figurative, but without touching on anyone's personal trauma or trivializing a serious crime. I think your focus is misdirected. Much more serious than over-the-top metaphor is the fact that people in "civilized" western countries call for rape to be used as a punishment. "Good thing he was convicted, hope he enjoys himself in federal pound-my-ass prison." That sort of thing. The childhood-rape metaphor is basically a rape joke. You might think rape jokes are never funny, but you won't ever convince the rest of the world to share your sense of humor. People who invoke rape in all seriousness are easier targets, and are espousing a more dangerous ideology. You make a good point here. I wouldn't say that I 'focus' on this in general, it's just something that frustrated me today. But yes, it is incredibly disturbing that people think rape is a suitable punishment and that rape is a fitting part of the prison experience. That does bother me considerably more because as you say, they are actively condoning rape. Igor - I have some pretty conflicting feelings about the use of BDSM terms like the ones you used in your example, and you're right to bring them up. I wouldn't say I get 'upset' at any wallet rape or forced bi, nor the example in my original post, but rather I see them as a form of ignorance. The word slave I'm less sure about - perhaps I am desensitised to it because I'm so used to hearing it in the BDSM context and so rarely hear it in it's original context. Thing is, I appreciate that part of the joy of the English language is it's flexibility and wide range, and part of that is making such comparisons. But the way we express ourselves can be very telling about who we are, and someone who choses to express their displeasure or minor inconvenience in terms of rape, or genocide (as in the nazi example), comes across to me as ignorant and arrogant.

Darkfeather -> RE: Mostly a rant - casual use of the word 'rape' (1/21/2014 10:12:02 AM)
What I think is that we as a country have gravitated so much towards being so sanitized and cocooned, safe and correct, that no one wants to risk saying anything less they "offend". In reality, words are just that, letters strung together to give meaning to thought or intent. The key factor in that definition being those two, thought and intent. Because insults, when they first started as words in our language, were simple and harmless. I could think of several, but to not spark angry flaming, lets take yellow. Does calling a tulip yellow, insult it, no. In that case it is a simple descriptor. Conveying thought. It is the intent a person uses with words, that makes them an insult. With that, even calling someone a cat or an apple can be made an insult depending on the fashion or manner it is said

FieryOpal -> RE: Mostly a rant - casual use of the word 'rape' (1/21/2014 10:32:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: igor2003 Do you also get upset over the use of the word "slave", since the family histories of many people includes true slavery and all it's atrocities? NOT so much the usage, but in its application. I don't believe in the concept of slavery. Period. It's taken millennia to rid civilization of this scourge of inhumanity. To see it consensually resurrected without proper quid pro quo or in a no-limits, potentially abusive, capacity turns my stomach. [:'(] quote: Do you get upset with all of the little pay-princess findomes that claim to want to "rape" men's wallets? YES. Although they couldn't get away with saying that if this idea didn't turn those fin-slaves on. No self-respecting female would ever say such a thing. quote: Do you get upset over the use of the term "forced bi"...not because they aren't really forced, but because it trivializes the act for those that really have been forced? NOT upset, but I dislike it, and will have nothing to do with any sub who entertains this notion, either in the context of cuckolding or not (which is also a hard limit for me). quote: Both BDSM and mainstream life is filled with terms taken from real acts of a deplorable nature, but used in a casual way. Personally, when you have a pet peeve with only one of those terms or it's uses, it seems a little petty. That doesn't mean I have to condone it or tolerate being around it, or allow children to be exposed to disturbing elements. I can remove myself from any environment I deem as such. I can choose not to incite or encourage others. quote: Sadly, if you get all PC over the casual use of all those various terms you kind of diminish (should I say "rape"?) the English language. Sadly, you are mistaken. But that would be your prerogative.

hlen5 -> RE: Mostly a rant - casual use of the word 'rape' (1/21/2014 10:58:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FieryOpal It's taken millennia to rid civilization of this scourge of inhumanity. Slavery is still not gone.

FieryOpal -> RE: Mostly a rant - casual use of the word 'rape' (1/21/2014 11:08:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hlen5 quote: ORIGINAL: FieryOpal It's taken millennia to rid civilization of this scourge of inhumanity. Slavery is still not gone. Yes, I know, as an illegal activity. Or among isolated primitive tribes. I'm speaking of its institutionalized, government-sanctioned form.

GoddessManko -> RE: Mostly a rant - casual use of the word 'rape' (1/21/2014 11:28:19 AM)
I can say in my vanilla existence such utterances rarely escape my lips but as a Domina my mouth is positively filthy and I'm hardly politically correct. What I like most about my subs is that I can say anything and there's NO judgements. I definitely avoid using such terms to people who may get offended by them unless of course they REALLY deserve it. Then again, I'm not big on censoring myself even when I know I should. :) Manko is a nickname my friends (some who can stand my sick sense of humor) call me and it's japanese for cvnt. I think it's thoroughly applicable more than I care to admit. It's unfortunate I'm not just a tiny bit nicer or politically correct but alas... [sm=crop.gif] [sm=crop.gif][sm=ballchain.gif][sm=ballchain.gif][sm=bowdown.gif][sm=bowdown.gif][sm=bowdown.gif][sm=domme.gif]

MalcolmNathaniel -> RE: Mostly a rant - casual use of the word 'rape' (1/21/2014 1:49:16 PM)
~fr~ It's just someone using hyperbole. Ignore it and move on.

LadyPact -> RE: Mostly a rant - casual use of the word 'rape' (1/21/2014 2:17:35 PM)
Athena, I'm actually with you on this one. When I first started playing WoW, I was amazed at how often that word "rape" came up. At first, I was pretty shocked. Frankly, I still don't like it. I did ask My (grown) male child not to use it in My presence. That's about the best I'm going to get. I'm not going to be able to change the attitude of millions. (For those that don't know, the word tends to get used in those situations where someone has the ability to kill another swiftly, frequently in player vrs player.) To address igor's points, I actually do see that differently than I do as related to terms that are often associated with BDSM. Yes, it might be a stretch but every person on this site is supposed to be an adult. We're supposed to know the difference between kink and the outright non consensual acts that occur between individuals with no underlying agreement. We even agree to that lovely part in ToS that says there will be content of a certain nature. Kind of similar to attending a club and knowing the potential for triggers for certain people will exist.

littlewonder -> RE: Mostly a rant - casual use of the word 'rape' (1/21/2014 2:28:12 PM)
Most terms really don't bother me in how others use them. To each their own. I don't mind cunt. To me it's just another word for the vagina. I like using the word because vagina just sounds so clinical and pussy to me just sounds so....fluffy. As for "rape", for me, it depends on the context in which it is used.For example, I don't like it when used in the context as how Athena mentioned in her story. But I don't mind it when Master calls me his "rapetoy" or some such because in reality....well, I am. He doesn't ask me, he doesn't wait until I'm in the mood, he doesn't care if I cum or not, etc...so for me the term is not a problem when he uses it (that's not to say he doesn't care about me. Sure he does...our relationship is just not one of constant consent). The word "nazi" also doesn't bother me so much because to me the word connotes something extremely not good. For example, I call my daughter a "fem-nazi" because she is so extreme in her feminine views and imo, that's not a good thing. I don't have a problem with feminism, just like I don't have a problem with taking pride in your culture but when you take it to the extreme views of hatred and more, then nazi imo is a pretty good use of the word.

DesFIP -> RE: Mostly a rant - casual use of the word 'rape' (1/21/2014 3:46:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FieryOpal Yes, I know, as an illegal activity. Or among isolated primitive tribes. I'm speaking of its institutionalized, government-sanctioned form. You mean like in Sudan where the government winks at it? I feel this way about using any term for female genitalia. The fascinating thing is that the guys most guilty of using the term pussy to put down another guy, or calling anyone a cunt, are usually the worst horn dogs. The thing they dream of most, is what they denigrate the most.

PeonForHer -> RE: Mostly a rant - casual use of the word 'rape' (1/21/2014 3:48:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders This came up on another site. A guy didn't like the new Star Trek movies and said, repeatedly and emphatically, that his childhood had been 'raped'. I called him out, saying simply that it's pretty low to compare a film he didn't like to the trauma of rape. Unsurprisingly, I was referred to as the 'political correctness police' and it was suggested that I don't understand figurative language. Since it's obvious there wasn't a literal rape, I was overreacting. I have some pretty strong feelings about this. I feel it's disrespectful to people who have actually been through sexual assault and that by trivializing rape through such casual comparisons and jokes it creates the impression of it being 'not that bad' and somewhat acceptable in our culture. I also think that his dismissal of the fact that it could be offensive is indicative of someone who has never had to worry about sexual assault and really had no concept of what it's like. Sure people can say whatever they want, but is it really 'political correctness' to suggest that some topics aren't appropriate for casually slinging around? Calling the films 'a pile of shit' would also have been figurative, but without touching on anyone's personal trauma or trivializing a serious crime. What are your thoughts? Are any topics off-limits, socially? I'm not talking freedom of speech here; I know he has the right to say his childhood memories were raped just as I have the right to call him a cunt (which I did not, for the record). But should we discourage the use of certain topics in jokes and such, or should these things be socially acceptable? Me, my main objection would be to the phrase 'politically correct'. To me, it's become a term beloved of the worst of the lazy, nasty, prejudiced sort of right wing arse who doesn't want to think about his ignorant views on a given subject but still likes to think of himself as 'sensitive' and 'thoughtful'. Anybody who uses the term 'politically correct' against any of my views, on anything whatsoever, deserves no quarter. The best he should get is the royal piss taken out of him.

FieryOpal -> RE: Mostly a rant - casual use of the word 'rape' (1/21/2014 4:35:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP quote: ORIGINAL: FieryOpal Or among isolated primitive tribes. You mean like in Sudan where the government winks at it? (Kinda didn't want to go into the jihad zone--but I was thinking of other-than-aboriginal cultures or outside of an anthropological definition when referring to "primitive," as in backward isolationism. [:o] ) Will human trafficking or forced/coerced enslavement ever be totally eradicated? Most of our contemporaries thought smallpox and polio had been. There are festering pockets that manage to go underground, and black-market industries continue to thrive. If someone wants to be a D/s-M/s slave and doesn't feel complete without a master, or vice versa, that's their business. One really can't compare rape as a sexual violation against one's will with consensual rape play, anymore than equating outright racism with role-playing race play, or incest and/or pedophilia with age play. There is a lesson to be learned from the fable about the Boy Who Cried Wolf ... and from Chicken Little for that matter.

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