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dengenerative arthritis - 2/12/2014 10:33:57 PM   
LafayetteLady


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So I saw the orthpedist about my back today. X-rays showed degenerative arthritis in my neck. Didn't really get into as in depth discussion with the doctor about, but I'm not concerned about that. Plenty of time at next appointment in three weeks.

As it stands now, he prescribed three weeks of physical therapy and some hydocodone.

I was researching a bit on the web. Good news is apparently, rarely is surgery needed. What was confusing though is the several sites I read said that it doesn't get worse. Last I checked that was what dengerative meant; continual and increased damage/pain.

So anybody have this condition or know more? I have been diagnosed with this same type of arthritis in other parts of my body. It sucks but is dealable. With my neck, though, I'm a bit more concerned.

Oh and my normally borderline low blood pressure seems to have skyrocketed. First read on auto BP cuff was 170/100. Second one about 40 minutes later, done manually was 152/100.

So in the last two weeks, I've got a gastroenterologist who thinks Celiac's, had EIGHT viles of blood drawn and now am wondering if over time my neck will be in such excruciating pain I won't be able to stand it.

And of course, we are still dealing with the thyroid issue. Insurance apparently couldn't find a second endo for a second opinion, so I asked myself for my own opinon, lol. Concluded no thyroid removal, having another biopsy and then treatment pharmaceutically based on results in one of those eight viles of blood.
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RE: dengenerative arthritis - 2/13/2014 4:26:21 AM   
Rule


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Try a diet of yoghurt and vitamin C only. Prior to that do not eat for a couple of days.

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RE: dengenerative arthritis - 2/13/2014 10:33:32 AM   
LafayetteLady


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First, what purpose would that serve?

Second, I am also diabetic, so fasting is not am option anyway.

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RE: dengenerative arthritis - 2/13/2014 10:35:58 AM   
dollparts85


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Are you hypothyroid or hyper? What medication(s) are you on for it? If your levels are off, that could be causing an increase in pain.

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RE: dengenerative arthritis - 2/13/2014 10:38:04 AM   
dollparts85


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Also, a gluten free diet really helps hashimotos (if that's what you have) and most people with hypothyroidism don't produce enough digestive enzymes which can cause a lot of GI problems. Have you tried taking Betaine and Pepsin supplements with meals?

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RE: dengenerative arthritis - 2/13/2014 11:54:18 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dollparts85
Also, a gluten free diet really helps hashimotos (if that's what you have) <snip>

I have no idea why you jump to this diagnostic conclusion.
Hashimotos is an auto-immune disorder, arthritis isn't and not even related.


@LL: My OH suffers from this condition although in her case, the medical experts put it down to the bad bike accident she had way back in 1985 which had initially damaged her spine.
Her back is fucked up as well as her neck and we have been told that when it finally gives out, the only hope is a spinal fusion operation.
We've spoken to almost a dozen people over the last 3-4 years that have either had it done or have a partner that had it done and we haven't found a single success story.... not a single one!
A work colleague that I used to work with, his OH had it done and it was fine for 6 months then it all went tits-up and she came out of the hospital in a wheelchair and neck brace. This seems to be the usual end result of such operations and also why my OH won't have it done unless it's absolutely necessary.
She lives on pain killers as well as a few other pills for other (unrelated) ailments.
At least, for the moment, she can walk (albeit with a stick) and lives with the daily non-stop pain.

If the arthritis is slight, physio can help.
If it's more advanced, physio can do more harm than good as it'll exascerbate the condition.

Sorry I don't have a better answer for you.


ETA: you are correct in that "degenerative" conditions are non-curable and only ever get worse; never better.
That's why they attach that particular word for conditions such as this.


< Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 2/13/2014 11:59:31 AM >

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RE: dengenerative arthritis - 2/13/2014 12:34:47 PM   
LafayetteLady


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I have another back injury as well. My research on the spinal fusion is much like your, so I'm not headed in that direction either.

I will do the PT and see how it goes. If the pain starts to get worse, I will call the doctor before the three weeks are over.

Having multiple thing going on healthwise at the same time doesn't help. I can't focus on one thing at a time because they all need attention now.

As for dollparts post, its not even worth responding to. She can't make competent decisions regarding her own health, I certainly wouldn't take much of what she says about mine seriously.

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RE: dengenerative arthritis - 2/13/2014 12:54:06 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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My OH went to just one PT session and came out feeling like she'd gone 10 rounds with Mike Tyson.
She spent the next 3 days in bed in excruciating pain even with the max dose of pain killers.
When she finally got up, she phoned her orthapedic surgeon at the hospital and asked about the other PT appointments she was supposed to go to. His answer was simple and to the point - don't go!!

Essentially, her arthritis has gone past the point where PT won't help.
We've been told she will end up in a wheelchair at some point in the future.
They have no idea when. None at all. Can't even hazzard a guess.
It could be tomorrow, or it could take 20 years. They just don't know.
Last year, one of her discs slipped into the spinal canal and is causing even more pain and discomfort.
Short of wiring up her spine and using a laser to cut the spinal cord (which would mean instant paralysis and a wheelchair), there isn't much they can do except to prescribe more pain killers.

We live each day as it comes.
Not much else we can do for now.
It's one of those incurable things that we have to live with.

I'm a diabetic (type 2 brittle) so I know what you must be going through with that as well.
It ain't nice having to deal with that on top of your arthritis.

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RE: dengenerative arthritis - 2/13/2014 1:11:24 PM   
LadyConstanze


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: dollparts85
Also, a gluten free diet really helps hashimotos (if that's what you have) <snip>

I have no idea why you jump to this diagnostic conclusion.
Hashimotos is an auto-immune disorder, arthritis isn't and not even related.




I think the reason was the thyroid condition and the thyroid has a lot of influence on a ton of other functions in the body. I'm hypothyroid with mild lupus (which includes hashimotos) and it can be the bitch of all bitches, in some people it blocks the ability to absorb certain pain killers, now a lot of thyroid conditions are treated but getting the test for anti-bodies which will show you that you have hashimotos is quite rare, as most docs just believe in increasing the meds (I guess the tests are really expensive). If your thyroid goes wrong, a ton of other things you wouldn't even think are related to the thyroid will go wrong. I have no arthritis but when I wasn't medicated, my joints hurt and I had problems bending my knees. Seriously, if the thyroid is involved, most bets are just off, untypical reactions to medication are almost the norm.


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RE: dengenerative arthritis - 2/13/2014 1:29:12 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
I think the reason was the thyroid condition and the thyroid has a lot of influence on a ton of other functions in the body.

And for most people, a thyroid condition is usually tested for when you go for the battery of tests they do for arthritis and similar disorders.
If thyroid doesn't show up, you don't have it.
And thyroid would be one of the least common problems found when investigating joint and/or back pain.
Arthritis is waay more common.
As LL commented earlier, dollpart can't even do her own shit let alone jump to a somewhat dangerous conclusion and even profer medical advice on it and a remedy (which incidentally, not many doctors over here subscribe to unless a person shows a distinct wheat intollerance).

I'm sure LL's doctor would be the first to tell her it's a thyroid problem and not specifically 'degenerative arthritis'.

Dollpart's post was, IMHO, quite dangerous.

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RE: dengenerative arthritis - 2/13/2014 1:37:45 PM   
dollparts85


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: dollparts85
Also, a gluten free diet really helps hashimotos (if that's what you have) <snip>

I have no idea why you jump to this diagnostic conclusion.
Hashimotos is an auto-immune disorder, arthritis isn't and not even related.


@LL: My OH suffers from this condition although in her case, the medical experts put it down to the bad bike accident she had way back in 1985 which had initially damaged her spine.
Her back is fucked up as well as her neck and we have been told that when it finally gives out, the only hope is a spinal fusion operation.
We've spoken to almost a dozen people over the last 3-4 years that have either had it done or have a partner that had it done and we haven't found a single success story.... not a single one!
A work colleague that I used to work with, his OH had it done and it was fine for 6 months then it all went tits-up and she came out of the hospital in a wheelchair and neck brace. This seems to be the usual end result of such operations and also why my OH won't have it done unless it's absolutely necessary.
She lives on pain killers as well as a few other pills for other (unrelated) ailments.
At least, for the moment, she can walk (albeit with a stick) and lives with the daily non-stop pain.

If the arthritis is slight, physio can help.
If it's more advanced, physio can do more harm than good as it'll exascerbate the condition.

Sorry I don't have a better answer for you.


ETA: you are correct in that "degenerative" conditions are non-curable and only ever get worse; never better.
That's why they attach that particular word for conditions such as this.


Hashimotos is often the cause of hypothyroidism...especially if they were talking about surgery. And if your thyroid levels are off, that will cause an increase in joint, bone and muscle pain. It can also cause GI issues which I tried to explain...hypothyroid patients usually don't produce enough digestive enzymes which is often misdiagnosed as acid reflux and IBS when in reality simply taking digestive enzymes with meals will fix it. I suspect if she gets her thyroid under control all the other things she listed would improve some...changing meds may help if she's on levothyroxine, it doesn't work for shit. There are other options even though many doctors don't like to tell you that there are. A lot of people really find Armour thyroid helpful. Many prefer Natural thyroid. Or even just Cytomel in addition to the levothyroxine.

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RE: dengenerative arthritis - 2/13/2014 1:39:35 PM   
dollparts85


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
I think the reason was the thyroid condition and the thyroid has a lot of influence on a ton of other functions in the body.

And for most people, a thyroid condition is usually tested for when you go for the battery of tests they do for arthritis and similar disorders.
If thyroid doesn't show up, you don't have it.
And thyroid would be one of the least common problems found when investigating joint and/or back pain.
Arthritis is waay more common.
As LL commented earlier, dollpart can't even do her own shit let alone jump to a somewhat dangerous conclusion and even profer medical advice on it and a remedy (which incidentally, not many doctors over here subscribe to unless a person shows a distinct wheat intollerance).

I'm sure LL's doctor would be the first to tell her it's a thyroid problem and not specifically 'degenerative arthritis'.

Dollpart's post was, IMHO, quite dangerous.


If you read her post, she said she has a thyroid problem and was looking at thyroid removal. You have issues.

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RE: dengenerative arthritis - 2/13/2014 1:45:44 PM   
dollparts85


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Here is a good article that explains what gluten does to the thyroid in people with hashimotos.

http://chriskresser.com/the-gluten-thyroid-connection

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RE: dengenerative arthritis - 2/13/2014 1:53:57 PM   
LadyConstanze


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
I think the reason was the thyroid condition and the thyroid has a lot of influence on a ton of other functions in the body.

And for most people, a thyroid condition is usually tested for when you go for the battery of tests they do for arthritis and similar disorders.
If thyroid doesn't show up, you don't have it.
And thyroid would be one of the least common problems found when investigating joint and/or back pain.
Arthritis is waay more common.
As LL commented earlier, dollpart can't even do her own shit let alone jump to a somewhat dangerous conclusion and even profer medical advice on it and a remedy (which incidentally, not many doctors over here subscribe to unless a person shows a distinct wheat intollerance).

I'm sure LL's doctor would be the first to tell her it's a thyroid problem and not specifically 'degenerative arthritis'.

Dollpart's post was, IMHO, quite dangerous.



That is effing BS, because a huge part of the population suffers from it but unfortunately not all docs are quite aware of the influence of the thyroid.

As far as I am aware, LL mentioned the thyroid condition as she did mention the arthritis, and Dollpart's post was not dangerous but just pointed to having another avenue worth exploring, not that LL should do it, but that she should check with her doctor.

Listen, I could bore you for days about misdiagnosed thyroid, due to a tumor I have 10% left, I went through effing hell to get a full thyroid test, as the regular and simple thyroid tests all showed me as normal, you can produce and have a hormone, but your body might not be able to do anything with it, your regular GP usually just does the basic tests, if you're having a basic thyroid insufficience, they will catch it, if it gets a bit more complicated, often even endos are out of their depth... There is a correlation between vit D and the thyroid, my highly regarded endo consultant wasn't aware of it, but at least he looked it up and then decided we also need to check vit D levels, zinc and a bunch of other things. I was quite grateful for that, because it's not much fun being in the ER because you can't effing breathe anymore and the docs (admittedly it was LA) yell at you (in that case me who was trying desperately to breathe) what kind of drugs I have taken (none, I am ridiculously drug free) and threatening the friends who brought me in as I turned blue and flapped like a fish with the police, because until somebody mentioned my thyroid condition (not really tattoed on my forehead and I am not overweight) they thought I was suffering from a recreational drug OD.

Oh yeah, and it only cost me a couple of K, because apparently it was a pre-existing condition and it should have been caught by the GP, so my travel insurance didn't cover it.

Really gotta love thyroid problems...

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RE: dengenerative arthritis - 2/13/2014 2:03:30 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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Yep. My bad.
I missed the bit about her thyroid problem.
But even so, the barrage of tests they do for this shit would have shown up as a thyroid problem if that was the case.
Obviously not otherwise she would have said as much.

Just sayin'.

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RE: dengenerative arthritis - 2/13/2014 2:05:57 PM   
dollparts85


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From: NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Yep. My bad.
I missed the bit about her thyroid problem.
But even so, the barrage of tests they do for this shit would have shown up as a thyroid problem if that was the case.
Obviously not otherwise she would have said as much.

Just sayin'.


You obviously know nothing about what you're talking about so just admit it.

And most doctors are completely clueless about thyroid stuff. Even many endocrinologist. Most still believe that testing TSH alone is enough to monitor your condition.

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RE: dengenerative arthritis - 2/13/2014 2:09:43 PM   
dollparts85


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From: NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
I think the reason was the thyroid condition and the thyroid has a lot of influence on a ton of other functions in the body.

And for most people, a thyroid condition is usually tested for when you go for the battery of tests they do for arthritis and similar disorders.
If thyroid doesn't show up, you don't have it.
And thyroid would be one of the least common problems found when investigating joint and/or back pain.
Arthritis is waay more common.
As LL commented earlier, dollpart can't even do her own shit let alone jump to a somewhat dangerous conclusion and even profer medical advice on it and a remedy (which incidentally, not many doctors over here subscribe to unless a person shows a distinct wheat intollerance).

I'm sure LL's doctor would be the first to tell her it's a thyroid problem and not specifically 'degenerative arthritis'.

Dollpart's post was, IMHO, quite dangerous.



That is effing BS, because a huge part of the population suffers from it but unfortunately not all docs are quite aware of the influence of the thyroid.

As far as I am aware, LL mentioned the thyroid condition as she did mention the arthritis, and Dollpart's post was not dangerous but just pointed to having another avenue worth exploring, not that LL should do it, but that she should check with her doctor.

Listen, I could bore you for days about misdiagnosed thyroid, due to a tumor I have 10% left, I went through effing hell to get a full thyroid test, as the regular and simple thyroid tests all showed me as normal, you can produce and have a hormone, but your body might not be able to do anything with it, your regular GP usually just does the basic tests, if you're having a basic thyroid insufficience, they will catch it, if it gets a bit more complicated, often even endos are out of their depth... There is a correlation between vit D and the thyroid, my highly regarded endo consultant wasn't aware of it, but at least he looked it up and then decided we also need to check vit D levels, zinc and a bunch of other things. I was quite grateful for that, because it's not much fun being in the ER because you can't effing breathe anymore and the docs (admittedly it was LA) yell at you (in that case me who was trying desperately to breathe) what kind of drugs I have taken (none, I am ridiculously drug free) and threatening the friends who brought me in as I turned blue and flapped like a fish with the police, because until somebody mentioned my thyroid condition (not really tattoed on my forehead and I am not overweight) they thought I was suffering from a recreational drug OD.

Oh yeah, and it only cost me a couple of K, because apparently it was a pre-existing condition and it should have been caught by the GP, so my travel insurance didn't cover it.

Really gotta love thyroid problems...


That's really scary. >.< I'm still trying to get a doctor to just simply do an ultrasound of my thyroid after having hypothyroidism for 10 years...it's annoying. They say since it's not enlarged that they can feel, I don't need an ultrasound. Yet it throbs constantly and my TSH keeps going up more and more despite increasing meds every couple months.


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RE: dengenerative arthritis - 2/13/2014 2:28:45 PM   
LadyConstanze


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Can you push to see a thyroid specialist? It is actually scary how underdiagnosed thyroid issues are.

A bunch of food is not advisable if you're suffering from a thyroid condition, I found the Mayo clinic website really helpful, unfortunately it is not something most Docs read...

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There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

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RE: dengenerative arthritis - 2/13/2014 2:37:11 PM   
dollparts85


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Joined: 10/22/2006
From: NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

Can you push to see a thyroid specialist? It is actually scary how underdiagnosed thyroid issues are.

A bunch of food is not advisable if you're suffering from a thyroid condition, I found the Mayo clinic website really helpful, unfortunately it is not something most Docs read...

I saw an endocrinologist a few years ago and he wasn't helpful at all. But I'm hoping to see a new one in my new town soon.

_____________________________

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RE: dengenerative arthritis - 2/13/2014 3:08:59 PM   
LafayetteLady


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From: Northern New Jersey
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Wow. Ok, first things first. Chris Kresser's article is shit. He isn't a doctor and states as fact there is no conclusive diagnostic test for Celiac's. There is a simple blood test for it. He can't get the most basic thing correct, he might as well be telling you the sky is pink.

Endocrinologists specialize in hormonal type issues, and usually are treating thyroid or diabetes problems the most. I do not rely on my primary for specialty care any more than I would see a prctologist for a sore throat.

Thyroid and parathyroid issues can screw up most of the body's others systems and can also mess up test result. For example thyroid issues can indicate cholesterol problems that don't exist. It can NOT, however, indicate something on an x-ray that doesn't exist, which is how the arthritis in my neck was diagnosed. By the way, that was an rthodepic surgeon who diagnosed that, not my primary, not my endocrinologist, not my gastroenterologist, not my podiatris. I have pain in my bone, I'm going to a doctor who specializes in bones; an orthopedist. Whether I move to an arthritis specialist from there remains to be decided.

Because I have multiple health issues and I'm not an idiot, as you can see, I have specialist for the various problems. The thyroid removal was suggested by the endo because of a large lump that seems to keep growing. The biopsy in 2010 came back benign, but his suggesttion was based on reasoning of not having to have bi-annual ultrasounds and biopsies going forward. My insurance seems to be having difficulty finding another endo in my area for a second opinion, so I made my own decision. This was not difficult since there is no malignant diagnosis. I will have another biopsy done on the lump, and hopefully it will still be benign. At that time, I will discuss medication for an OVER active thyroid with the endo. We need to determine if it is an active nodule or not.

Regardless, I have THREE different doctors who ordered full thyroid testing. My doctors do know what they are doing. By the way, my doctors and I already know that I have regular vitamin D deficiencies and it is that definciency that increases pain levels.

I have blood work approximately every three months because of the diabetes. Tuesday, they took EIGHT vial, a new personal record. The two women who regulalry draw my blood (yes, there are specific people I allow to do it) are wonderful at their job, although I'm a little upset with the one from Tuesday. Because after eight viles, I think I earned a cookie and some juice! Oh a urinalysis is also done at that time as well.

Next Tuesday, I will go over blood work with my primary, Wednesday with my gastroenterologist and Thursday with the endo.

LC, you are so dead on with the thyroid causing medication issues. I'm currently off all meds because they weren't doing what they were supposed to do. The metformin would either do nothing or sometimes even RAISED. My blood sugar. I made the decision that I wasn't going to take a meal's worth of pills several times a day if they weren't doing what they are supposed to. My plan, whether my doctors like it or not is to get ALL test results and then slowly add medication. Because of my wonky system, most pain killers might as well be a tic tac for me. At least a tic tac would give me minty fresh breath, since even the heavy duty dilaudid or morphine does nothing for me. Oh, except that I recently had an allergic reaction to morphine, and since I'm also allergic to codiene and tramadol, my pain relief options are nearly none existant. I still won't try leeches thoguh, since none of my doctors is going to give me a sufficient dose of xanax to get through it.

The ortho took x-rays of my lumbar and cervical spine. Regardless of my thyroid issues, the image is unaffected by it.

Freedom, my sincerest sympathies and good thought to you and your OH for her arthritis. Gratefully, mine is not that bad yet. So I will try the physical therapy and hope for the best with that.

There is a lot of media lately touting the benefits of a gluten free diet for everything. The medical facts, however, do not support those claims. I honestly, in all of my attempts for the various diagnosis, did not consider Celiac's and sincerely pray that test is negative. I like bread and gluten free is too expensive for someone in my financial brackt. But if the test is positive, then it will be on to a nutirionist to figure out how I can manage diabetes and celiac's plus the recent high blood pressure and not be eating cardboard. Even though the diabetes and celiac both come down to limited carbs, what I have so far read about celiac's is just a pain in the ass because there is gluten in things we don't think of and I don't care to read that much into ingredients on every single food I eat.

So that should get everyone pretty much caught up on my disasterous health. Oh except for the plantar fasciitis due to my very high arches and my obsession with walking barefoot. Thank God for cortisone shots, so at least that is felling better.

An LC, did I read correctly that you have had all but about 10% of your thyroid removed? If that's true, I would love to ask you some questions privately about it if you don't mind.


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