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for insulin dependent diabetics - 2/22/2014 12:39:19 AM

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Since my blood sugar isn't responding to oral medications regardless of what I eat or don't eat , my doctor is putting me on insulin. I'm not upset by this at all, as I'm ttired of taking a meals worth of pills that aren't working (my thyroid problems are likely playing a part in this).

I'm curious though regarding whether there is a difference between the pens or the vials, other than convenience.

I'm not looking to have a discussion about diet and diabetes. While my diet isn't perfect, it isn't terrible either and that is not the reason the oral meds aren't working.

I know that the insulin is the same regardless of delivery system, I just want to hear users opinions on the two methods.

RE: for insulin dependent diabetics - 2/22/2014 2:39:11 AM

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I find the pen to be less comfortable than using vials, LL.

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RE: for insulin dependent diabetics - 2/22/2014 3:23:37 AM

AthenaSurrenders

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My husband always goes for pens. They're very convenient- just one thing to carry, really easy to set the dose and very discreet should you need to take a shot in public. You can also see exactly how many units are left when you get near the bottom.

I don't know if it's just our area, but the pharmacies have to special order the vials and needles here. Almost everyone uses the pens.

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RE: for insulin dependent diabetics - 2/22/2014 3:31:42 AM

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My nephew uses a pen for his, says he likes it better and most people don't have issues with it. Plus, no needles to carry around avoiding any issues with that.

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RE: for insulin dependent diabetics - 2/22/2014 3:46:55 AM

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Fortunately, I'm not insulin dependant (yet) but that day may come in the future.

Not sure how it is over the pond LL, but to get hold of needles here, even for a legit purpose, is not always easy.
If I had to make a choice, I'd go for the pens.
Apart from having a needle phobia, I think the pens are generally better in many ways.
Apart from which, if you are ever stopped by the law and they find needles in your car, you are automatically assumed to be using or dealing in drugs of some sort. So unless you manage to be stopped by a very accommodating and understanding officer, you'd be cuffed and hauled away first, questioned later at the station. But by then, the damage is done and the inconvenience already caused.

So for me.... it would be the pens.

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RE: for insulin dependent diabetics - 2/22/2014 4:33:51 AM

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A few years back another doctor prescribed insulin, and I had the pen. Never used the vials, so I can't compare comfort levels. I think I prefer the pen just for the convenience.

The whole reason the question comes up is because my insurance wants pre authorization for the pen. Doctor's office put the paperwork through, now just waiting on the approval. I guess the pens cost a few bucks more, so of course insurance wants to cheap out. They also only cover one test per day for type 2, which is ridiculous. If you take insulin though, it goes up.

I wouldn't carry the needles without the vial, and I don't drive, so no worries on getting stopped. Although I have been considering a medical ID bracelet.

While its often true that eventually all type 2 will need insulin, its really a myth that requiring insulin means your diabetes is "worse" than those who take oral medication. Right now, from my viewpoint, I'm hoping that this will work better than the pills, which weren't working at all. There were times when my BS went up after I took metformin. The last doctor who prescribed it was an idiot though. I followed the "guidelines" he gave me about how many units based on BS. As most of you know, you are supposed to eat within 15 minutes after the shot, or your BS might drop danerously low. Once as an experiment, I took the prescribed number of units, but didn't eat right away. Checked my BS an hour later, and it hadn't even dropped 5 points. Plus he only prescribed the fast acting, not both fast and slow. I'm hoping this time will be different.

Pens are more popular here as well, but medicaid tries to force people into the vials and syringes. My only "ccomplaint is that either vials or pens requires me to get a sharps container. My current lancet pen uses barrels and doesn't rrequire special disposal. My local hospital used to give out sharps containers and you just exchanged full for empty. I'm hoping they still do. I'm going ther Monday to start the PT for my spine, so I will ask.

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RE: for insulin dependent diabetics - 2/22/2014 4:40:00 AM

AthenaSurrenders

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Fortunately, I'm not insulin dependant (yet) but that day may come in the future.

Not sure how it is over the pond LL, but to get hold of needles here, even for a legit purpose, is not always easy.
If I had to make a choice, I'd go for the pens.
Apart from having a needle phobia, I think the pens are generally better in many ways.
Apart from which, if you are ever stopped by the law and they find needles in your car, you are automatically assumed to be using or dealing in drugs of some sort. So unless you manage to be stopped by a very accommodating and understanding officer, you'd be cuffed and hauled away first, questioned later at the station. But by then, the damage is done and the inconvenience already caused.

So for me.... it would be the pens.

Has this ever actually happened to you? You can't be arrested for having just needles, unless you were trying to use them as a weapon. You can actually legitimately get free hypodermic needles, without a prescription, just by asking at many pharmacies, not to mention needle exchanges, as it's considered preferable to allow people to have free access to needles than risk needle-sharing (the reason we had to have needles special ordered is because the ones used for insulin are very narrow syringes as opposed to the standard type). Unless you had some sort of illicit substance on you what you describe would be a wrongful arrest, and certainly not the norm. Besides, if she's carrying a hypodermic needle chances are she also has the insulin vial with her name on it - diabetes is a well-known condition, not something that would totally baffle a police officer.

Back when my husband used the vials there was a slight problem flying with them - he had to carry his prescription and when we got to the gate they had to get the OK from the pilot for him to carry them on, because they could be used as a weapon. The pilot said it was OK, but I don't know what we'd have done otherwise. Never had that issue with the pens - don't know if anyone else has?

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RE: for insulin dependent diabetics - 2/22/2014 4:54:40 AM

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We don't have the access to syringes here in the states like exist throughout Europe. But I agree, if a cop tried to drag me in for having them without cause to think I was on drugs, I would have a serious problem.

As for the bottle having my name on it, it doesn't. The label is on the box, not the vial. Regardless, the bottle is clearly marked as insulin, so unles they figured I was trying to murder someone, there wouldn't be much reason to question whether it was mine or not under normal circumstances.

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RE: for insulin dependent diabetics - 2/22/2014 6:50:17 AM

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I think you can get some kind of letter or card to carry with you from your physician for this type of situation verifying that you are an insulin-dependent diabetic. And/or, you could pack the Rx label from your insulin box, or even the receipt that they usually staple to the bag any prescription comes in from the pharmacy, in the case you carry everything in to verify that you have a prescription. As others have said, it's very common. They might have initial suspicion because it's their job to be suspicious of everything, but they should be able to rule it out quickly.

< Message edited by windchymes -- 2/22/2014 6:51:18 AM >

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RE: for insulin dependent diabetics - 2/22/2014 6:58:06 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

We don't have the access to syringes here in the states like exist throughout Europe. But I agree, if a cop tried to drag me in for having them without cause to think I was on drugs, I would have a serious problem.

As for the bottle having my name on it, it doesn't. The label is on the box, not the vial. Regardless, the bottle is clearly marked as insulin, so unles they figured I was trying to murder someone, there wouldn't be much reason to question whether it was mine or not under normal circumstances.

I don't think that would happen.

There are way more diabetics than heroin junkies. Just don't crush your pills into powder and carry them in little baggies next to your syringes.

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RE: for insulin dependent diabetics - 2/22/2014 6:59:27 AM

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I'm actually not that concerned about it. Once the pre-authoriztion goes through, I will have the pens so it isn't a big deal.

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RE: for insulin dependent diabetics - 2/23/2014 12:27:02 AM

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Holy crap! I just looked at the cost of the two vials of Lantis. $527.99!!!!! That's insane. I can only imagine how much those pens cost. Thank God insurance covers it. How much are the pens across the pond? I know metformin is dirt cheap compared to her. I think the equivalent of 3-5 dollars.

When I think about the cost of the three different medications I was taking though, it comes out to not much less than the insulin.

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RE: for insulin dependent diabetics - 2/23/2014 3:44:21 AM

AthenaSurrenders

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It's free in the UK. Diabetics, plus various other people with life-long conditions get all their prescriptions free. If they didn't, I think the standard prescription cost is about £7 or £8 per item. So one vial or one box of pens, or one packet of test strips would be that much.

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RE: for insulin dependent diabetics - 2/23/2014 5:16:58 AM

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Himself uses the pens with the small disposable needles.

It's very easy to use plus he puts the needles in his pill container to ensure he's taken his daily dose.

He's also on Victoza, which is not cheap, $100 is the copay.

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RE: for insulin dependent diabetics - 2/23/2014 5:35:16 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Fortunately, I'm not insulin dependant (yet) but that day may come in the future.

Not sure how it is over the pond LL, but to get hold of needles here, even for a legit purpose, is not always easy.
If I had to make a choice, I'd go for the pens.
Apart from having a needle phobia, I think the pens are generally better in many ways.
Apart from which, if you are ever stopped by the law and they find needles in your car, you are automatically assumed to be using or dealing in drugs of some sort. So unless you manage to be stopped by a very accommodating and understanding officer, you'd be cuffed and hauled away first, questioned later at the station. But by then, the damage is done and the inconvenience already caused.

So for me.... it would be the pens.

I think most cops are aware of diabetes, when I was doing the leech therapy for the dog against arthritis, I ran out of needles to prick my own fingers (leeches bite dogs more readily if a drop of human skin is on them, dogs have thicker skin) and the vet was closed due to it being a weekend, on the way back from the park, I ran into a few cops and explained and asked where I could get needles or sharps, as my eyebrow shaper just messed up my fingers and it wasn't that pearl of blood but a smear (apart from hurting somewhat awful). They were super helpful and came with me to the chemist, where you can actually pick up a kit of disposable syringes and needles for free (one of them held the dog outside), it's all part of trying to stop junkies from getting infected with HIV etc. by sharing needles.

I think it depends very much on your appearance and where it happens, if you are near a crime scene and look super suspicious and strung out on drugs, they might react a bit harsher than if you tell them "diabetic, please check with my GP", in most areas the drug squad now works closely together with social workers to actively encourage people that are on H to make the switch to methadone and at our local police station there are tons of leaflets about not sharing needles, where to get help, drop in points. I think they're much more proactive.

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RE: for insulin dependent diabetics - 2/23/2014 11:21:28 AM

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Before Dad died in '07, he was taking insulin in pill form. I was not around (2 bipolar living in the same household is bad, especially unmedicated) so I did not know if he was doing pens or needles. He controlled his disease by diet.

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RE: for insulin dependent diabetics - 2/23/2014 5:33:37 PM

LeatherBentOne51

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I was using the pens, one for long acting insulin, another pen for short acting insulin for meals. Loved them. Unfortunately, I was hospitalized for 4 months with a life-threatening illness that caused my pancreas to make NO insulin at all. Now I must use a pump for insulin every hour 24/7 and a larger dose at mealtime depending on my carb intake. I only take the short acting with the pump. Unfortunately, my pump wigged out over the weekend (Sat) so Im using syringe and vial before meals with only 1 shot between meals, so my sugar is running very high for me. I will call for replacement tomorrow (Mon) since closed weekends. They will overnight it, so I'll get it Tuesday. Nothing beats a pump but you have to make NO insulin b4 insurance pays, $8200.00 not counting supplies and insulin.

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RE: for insulin dependent diabetics - 2/23/2014 6:30:54 PM

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SAthena,

Insuance covers the cost, but the information leaflet (instructions/side effects/precautions) also contain the "savings" ino. The actuual cost, co-pay and such, so I know how much everything I take would cost.

LC,

Have you considered a lancet pen for your needs? You are after all just pricking your finger and those are designed for that. Here, you can buy testing supplies without a prescription, althoug I usually just contact the manufacturer and they send the monitor with lancet pen for free. After all, the profit for them is in the strips.

I have several lancet pens, but prefer one that came with my aviva monitor. It uses barrels that each contain 6 needles. They can go in regular trash. I've found the others tend to be more like little razors the make a slice instead of poke a hole. Of course, now with the insulin I will need the sharps container anyway. I'm just hoping the hospital still takes the full ones at no charge.

LBO,

I'm just curious... does that mean you are now type 1 since you no longer produce insulin? I worked with a guy who had been using a pump since they first came out. I wish now we had talked more about the whole figuring out carbs thing. He and I were an odd pair. I could always tell just by looking at him for a second when he hadn't been eating and his levels were going off and he could do the same and know when my anxiety was rising. We worked in a restaurant. I would tell him he needed to eat something and he would tell me he would cover my tables so I could go out and have a smoke and relax for 5 minutes to get my anxiety under control.

I'm sorry you had to go through that, but be grateful those pumps are now available to help you have more of a normal life. I know for my friend it was like a gift from God. He had been type 1 since a toddler.

And I will have the fast acting and slow acting as well. I pick up the rest of the stuff tomorrow. I don't drive and my friend picked it up for me before he went to work. He didn't realize there were many parts to the script (or many scripts), lol. So when they said everything wasn't ready, he just took what they had ready. So I have two 100 units vials of Lantis in my fridge. But no syringes. And no Humolog. So basically useless.

Chatte,

I actually hadn't thought about transporting the needing even with the pens. If I remeber correctly, the pen will cap with one in place. I don't go out much, so I don't need to worry much about it, but it could be necessary. As ffor remembering, that is my bigger issue. Because I have sleep issues, I tend to not keep a regular schedule, especially for eating, which is probably my biggest issue with BS management. I just don't eat if I'm not hungry and kind of grateful for those times when I don't feel like eating everything ins sight, lol. My endo was very specific that I must eat three times a day and take the fast acting before eating. Especially for when I first get up. I really cantt tolerate food for about an hour. But I've already been making plans on how to rearrange my life a bit without making myself nuts. I almmost always have a great dinner and love my veggies.

I know you are a reputed to be a great cook and that you really know your stuff. Even though I didn't intend for this thread to be about diet, maybe you could so kind as to give a couple of suggestions? I've recently devolped a passion for mushrooms, but I only know to sautee them with seasoning (although I can eat a whole can or pint when I make them). I also am big on leavy greens like spinach, kale, chard, et. Again those are either sautee or salads. I would really apprciate and love it if you (and others) could give some ideass of other ways to prepare those things. I love how I make them, but the same thing over and over will get dull.

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RE: for insulin dependent diabetics - 2/24/2014 1:24:52 AM

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Mushrooms are great. I like them in scrambled eggs and bolognese (maybe using spaghetti squash instead of pasta to reduce the carbs?). I also do stuffed mushrooms with portobellos - cut off the stalk and chop it finely, mix with herbs, parmesan (or feta) and a tablespoon of breadcrumbs, stuff back into the mushroom and put it in a hot oven or under the grill until bubbly and golden. We usually do 15 minutes but it depends on how firm you want the mushroom and exactly what filling you use. You can stuff them with anything - my little girl always wants tomatoes and roasted peppers on it. You could skip the breadcrumbs entirely if you want but I like the crispy top.

For spinach, I like it with eggs. I line an oiled ramekin with spinach leaves and a slice of ham then crack an egg into it, add salt and pepper and bake until the whites are set. You can add sharp cheddar too, though it works best underneath the egg or it's hard to see how well cooked it is.
Swamp Monster Soup is also a hit in our house.
I like to add some spinach to curries because it adds a silkiness to them. Or for a really lazy supper, I cook cellophane noodles in beef broth, add some chilli powder, garlic and ginger, chop some leafy greens and green onions and mix it all together. Add a boiled egg or some leftover cooked meat. The noodles are carby but you only need a very small serving because it's a very filling soup. I use about an ounce dried noodles per person (compared to 3 ounces if we were having a non-soup noodle dish)

Have you made spinach or kale into chips? So yummy.

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RE: for insulin dependent diabetics - 2/24/2014 4:04:41 AM

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I actually don't need that many needles, it was just that weekend and the vet usually gives them to me and I bring them back so she can dispose them in the sharps container. I tried to buy the sharps for blood sugar testing from the chemist but they can't sell them without a prescription they claimed, I could have bought the whole kit with the machine without a prescription but that was madly expensive. A friend who had blood sugar problems just gave us a stack of them as well. It's really just every few month that I need it for my back and twice a year for the girlie's knee now.

As for mushroom recipes (I love shrooms) a super simple but super delicious recipe if I want to shed a few lbs is a simple broth, clean the mushrooms and throw them in and cook them in the broth, I tend to throw in a few onions and just the veg I have in the house and needs using.

As a soup, pretty much the same, add potatoes, if you are near an Asian supermarket, buy a big packet of red lentils and throw them in, they add a delicious nutty flavour, are high in protein and fibre (and they don't taste like green lentils, they don't have the typical lentil taste) and are very healthy and cheap source of protein. I usually blend it all down with a hand blender and then just add mushrooms.

You mentioned budget is a problem, how do you like pulses in general? Different beans and all that? You can pick up the dried variety very cheaply (again Mexican and Asian shops are much cheaper), I tend to soak them over night with a bit of vinegar (makes them much softer) and then cook them as some sort of stew with vegetables, again you can do all sorts of things with a hand blender, you can treat it then almost like hamburger meat and make patties and you mix in kale and all sorts of vegetables, also great as vegetable lasagne with a tomato sauce. Great stuff if you're on a budget and you can add almost any vegetable that's on sale.

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