RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen...

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BamaD -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 10:57:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 ,.... especially since she apparently invited him in. The shooter suffered a mental breakdown and was hospitalized after the shooting, there is no word on the condition of the daughter, who in my opinion is more responsible for the death than anyone else. A unique variation on the theme of; 'she asked for it'. I thought we had all progressed beyond that. Not for the first time it seems I am too optimistic. No, doesn't have anything to do with "she asked for it". And while I am not sure I would say she was more responsible, she definitely played a part in it. Not sure how she thought lying about it was going to help. When she lied it turned him into a rapist. If he "only naturally" grabbed for the gun that forced the fathers actions. Had she told the truth the father wouldn't have had to force the issue. responsible 1 daughter for A. inviting the 17 year old over at 2 am B. lying 2 17 year old for A. sneaking into someone's house in the middle of the night B. trying to grapple the gun 3 17 year olds parents apparently, from their comments they have no problem with their 17 year old roaming around looking for sex at 2 am, a little parental control would have gone a long way. 4 the father for A. trying to protect his daughter B. lack of parental control. You left out 5 My fault for A. For owning firearms and supporting ownership for others B. For being one of those bloodthirsty NRA members C. For supporting SYG laws and can hardly wait for an excuse to shoot a teenager I also left out fathers fault for C. owning a firearm D. not being a mindreader

jlf1961 -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 11:10:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin You left out 5 My fault for A. For owning firearms and supporting ownership for others B. For being one of those bloodthirsty NRA members C. For supporting SYG laws and can hardly wait for an excuse to shoot a teenager First, there is the second amendment, and owning a firearm for hunting or self defense is not illegal, nor is it social unacceptable, except of course in the mind of crack pot liberals who seem to forget the constitution (unless it is for something they like) and the words of various liberal founding fathers who supported private gun ownership. Second, you know this guy was a member of the NRA how? This may be a shock to you, but not every gun owner is a member of the NRA, is not bloodthirsty, and actually support the idea of reasonable and responsible gun laws, just not the outright banning of guns. Last, this has nothing to do with a SYG law. It happened inside the man's home, at 230 in the morning and the victim was a boy his daughter denied knowing. The doctrine you are looking for is the Castle Doctrine which states that you have the right to use deadly force inside your home to protect family and property. Now, tell me, what should a 55 year old father do with a boy he thought was a rapist? Invite him to the dining room for a cup of coffee? Apologize for the intrusion? Even if I didnt have a gun, if I thought some male was raping my daughter, he would end up dead or missing an appendage normally found between his legs, in which case he is going to bleed out anyway. Now I suggest you look into some recent home invasions that have made the news, such as the one in Cheshire Connecticut in 2007. None gun owner victim, along with wife and two daughters. No way to defend himself or his family, nothing really major happened, unless you want to count the rape and murder of his wife and two daughters. Then there is the case of Pam Williams, Donetta Heyward, and quite a few others. I really like how the same people that oppose gun ownership oppose capital punishment for crimes so heinous as to be unbelievable. Then there have been the cases where witnesses to gang rapes did nothing and women scream that the witnesses should be held accountable as well.

Kirata -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 11:50:24 AM)
~ FR ~ Let me see if I have the non-disputed part of this story correct. An underage 16-year old girl invites a boy to sneak into her bedroom at night while her father is home, and the idiot thinks this is a good idea. Cue a Darwin Award right there. The rest of the story seems clouded by conflicting reports, but even granting that stupidity is not a capital offense, it is often rewarded. So as we rush to line up the people responsible for this little drama, let's not forget the role played by Johran McCormick himself, who knowingly snuck into a house uninvited by its owners in furtherance of a purpose which was against their will. K.

lovmuffin -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 11:52:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin You left out 5 My fault for A. For owning firearms and supporting ownership for others B. For being one of those bloodthirsty NRA members C. For supporting SYG laws and can hardly wait for an excuse to shoot a teenager First, there is the second amendment, and owning a firearm for hunting or self defense is not illegal, nor is it social unacceptable, except of course in the mind of crack pot liberals who seem to forget the constitution (unless it is for something they like) and the words of various liberal founding fathers who supported private gun ownership. Second, you know this guy was a member of the NRA how? This may be a shock to you, but not every gun owner is a member of the NRA, is not bloodthirsty, and actually support the idea of reasonable and responsible gun laws, just not the outright banning of guns. Last, this has nothing to do with a SYG law. It happened inside the man's home, at 230 in the morning and the victim was a boy his daughter denied knowing. The doctrine you are looking for is the Castle Doctrine which states that you have the right to use deadly force inside your home to protect family and property. Now, tell me, what should a 55 year old father do with a boy he thought was a rapist? Invite him to the dining room for a cup of coffee? Apologize for the intrusion? Even if I didnt have a gun, if I thought some male was raping my daughter, he would end up dead or missing an appendage normally found between his legs, in which case he is going to bleed out anyway. Now I suggest you look into some recent home invasions that have made the news, such as the one in Cheshire Connecticut in 2007. None gun owner victim, along with wife and two daughters. No way to defend himself or his family, nothing really major happened, unless you want to count the rape and murder of his wife and two daughters. Then there is the case of Pam Williams, Donetta Heyward, and quite a few others. I really like how the same people that oppose gun ownership oppose capital punishment for crimes so heinous as to be unbelievable. Then there have been the cases where witnesses to gang rapes did nothing and women scream that the witnesses should be held accountable as well. Sorry jlf, I forgot the self deprecating sarcasm font. I guess you've had me on ignore all these years up till now.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 11:53:27 AM)
RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... If ya shoot at the ones that are armed, they might shoot back. Advanced combat strategy, there. ETA: I don't think all the facts are in, yet but ... I have never raised a daughter but I could foresee something like: 0200 - I hear a noise and grab my weapon. 0202 - I get into my 16 year old daughter's room and find this guy on top of her. 0203 - I aim my weapon and ask her if she knows him. She replies: "No" 0205 - I'm on the phone with 9-1-1: "Hello, I just shot a guy that was attempting to rape my daughter." I'm not saying this is how it happened but, I could see that happening. By 16 all of my children knew that telling the truth was always their best option so, I'm quite sure that in my house, it would have gone differently. I'm not saying I would have been happy but I think the young man wouldn't have been shot - of course, I'm confident he'd have fallen down the stairs a half dozen times or so.

eulero83 -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 12:33:06 PM)
To me or the father is guilty of murder or the daughter is guilty of manslaughter.

Lucylastic -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 12:39:43 PM)
in texas, the daughter has a better chance of being prosecuted than the father does

Moonhead -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 12:53:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic in texas, the daughter has a better chance of being prosecuted than the father does That's the American way. [;)]

jlf1961 -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 12:55:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic in texas, the daughter has a better chance of being prosecuted than the father does Lucy, if daddy is armed, finds boy on top of daughter, and she claims she does not know the boy, how the fuck is daddy to know that a) daddy's little girl is lieing, and b) she invited the boy over. And unfortunately, most teens in this state know the following applies: The age of consent is 17. The minimum age is 14 with an age differential of 3 years; thus, those who are at least 14 years of age can legally have sex with those less than 3 years older. Daughter was 16, boy was 17, she was legally able to give consent, and all daddy can do is sit on his ass and wonder where he went wrong (even though as a teenager he probably nailed a few 16 year old girls.) I mean seriously, it seems to be one of the top internet searches in middle and high schools in the state. Once the daughter lied and told her father she did not know the boy, she basically put a target on her boyfriend which got him killed, just as if she pulled the trigger herself. As I said, that girl is more responsible for that boy's death than her father, he reacted to information he had.

Lucylastic -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 1:01:43 PM)
I have been a 16 year old girl, I have been the older sister of 16 year olds, and I have had three 16 year olds to bring up, I also had a rather strict, threatening(to the boys ) father with a gun and a reason to use it. And a hubby who was and is protective of his kids(4 boys and 3 girls) your opinion is just that, and Im still pissed at you so, please dont try and talk me around, its not working. you DONT KNOW that the daughter lied, you are using that as the crux of your argument please stop.

hlen5 -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 1:31:10 PM)
FR. The one news article referenced said she told her Dad initially that she didn't know him. The girl isn't blameless, but are you telling me they're boffing away, Dad comes in, he shouldn't be able to tell there was an invitation? The O N L Y way I see culpability on the girl's part for a dead kid, is if she shot up saying "I don't know him" or some such to the Dad. The fact that the kid got close enough to grab a gun implies a little conversation. I find it hard to believe that the kids didn't act like they were interrupted vs a rape going on. I wouldn't have been able to look my Dad in the eye. And I would hope I would have enough character to tell my armed Dad I let him in. But again, she didn't bring the gun into the room or shoot the kid. Let a trial sort it out. EFTyping

Lucylastic -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 1:36:26 PM)
The articles I read said that the family of the boy were told, that was what she had said, not a quote from the cops themselves:) im going towards letting the "facts" come out. not initial reports or heresay

eulero83 -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 1:45:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic in texas, the daughter has a better chance of being prosecuted than the father does I think most of what they told the police is bullshit to cover he acted because of rage. I don't have proofs it's my opinion based on the fuzzines of the versions reported. Anyway... if it's true when her father came in with a gun, maybe it was the time to get clean about having sneaked in a boy instead of drawing a target on him.

jlf1961 -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 1:52:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic The articles I read said that the family of the boy were told, that was what she had said, not a quote from the cops themselves:) im going towards letting the "facts" come out. not initial reports or heresay Lucy, you can be pissed at me all you want but the facts are that the daughter lied to her dad. quote: The shooting happened about 2:30 a.m. Thursday. Assistant Chief Deputy Constable Mark Herman says the 55-year-old homeowner heard noises coming from his 16-year-old daughter’s bedroom, investigated, found the boy with his daughter and shot him in the ensuing altercation. The father says he shot the boy when the teen dropped his hands as if to grab for something. Investigators say the girl let the boy into the house and into the bedroom, but then told her father that she did not know the boy. source quote: The boy's family said they were *told by authorities* and others that the girl denied she knew the young man in her bedroom** - sparking a deadly confrontation. They said they were also told that when Johran McCormick reached down for something, the girl's father thought he was going for a weapon and shot him in the head. source Now as I understand the term, authorities= police/investigators/law enforcement personnel assigned to the case. There is no she allegedly told her father that she did not know the boy, she evidently made a statement to the police that she told her father she did not know the boy. How you missed the word in both the articles I cited I dont know. Unless in Canada the term authorities is defined as some dip shit off the street that would not know the facts of the case if they were in a 2 ton safe dropped on his head. Unless you are going to take the stand that the news media lied to make an African American 17 year old male killed easier to swallow, the boys family are going along with it because they really dont want anything to happen to the girl just the dad. Or maybe you just dont want to admit that the authorities are the source of the information that she lied to her dad.

Owner59 -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 1:53:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 ,.... especially since she apparently invited him in. The shooter suffered a mental breakdown and was hospitalized after the shooting, there is no word on the condition of the daughter, who in my opinion is more responsible for the death than anyone else. A unique variation on the theme of; 'she asked for it'. I thought we had all progressed beyond that. Not for the first time it seems I am too optimistic. No, doesn't have anything to do with "she asked for it". And while I am not sure I would say she was more responsible, she definitely played a part in it. Not sure how she thought lying about it was going to help. When she lied it turned him into a rapist. If he "only naturally" grabbed for the gun that forced the fathers actions. Had she told the truth the father wouldn't have had to force the issue. responsible 1 daughter for A. inviting the 17 year old over at 2 am B. lying 2 17 year old for A. sneaking into someone's house in the middle of the night B. trying to grapple the gun 3 17 year olds parents apparently, from their comments they have no problem with their 17 year old roaming around looking for sex at 2 am, a little parental control would have gone a long way. 4 the father for A. trying to protect his daughter B. lack of parental control. You left out 5 My fault for A. For owning firearms and supporting ownership for others B. For being one of those bloodthirsty NRA members C. For supporting SYG laws and can hardly wait for an excuse to shoot a teenager Well....you seem unable to defend yourself with words.....that we know.

eulero83 -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 2:06:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic in texas, the daughter has a better chance of being prosecuted than the father does Lucy, if daddy is armed, finds boy on top of daughter, and she claims she does not know the boy, how the fuck is daddy to know that a) daddy's little girl is lieing, and b) she invited the boy over. I don't know how a raped girl looks like, but I think if she is not hurt nor crying and the window is intact there are good chances he's the boyfriend. ETA: but maybe she just picked a stranger to fuck and she really didn't know him.

PeonForHer -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 2:32:00 PM)
quote: Once the daughter lied and told her father she did not know the boy, she basically put a target on her boyfriend which got him killed, just as if she pulled the trigger herself. So . . . 'guns don't kill people, people do' . . . unless they're the people who actually hold the guns and shoot them?

jlf1961 -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 2:42:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: Once the daughter lied and told her father she did not know the boy, she basically put a target on her boyfriend which got him killed, just as if she pulled the trigger herself. So . . . 'guns don't kill people, people do' . . . unless they're the people who actually hold the guns and shoot them? Okay, the daddy is guilty of murder because he was too stupid and naive to believe his daughter would lie to him about not knowing a boy she invited to her room and bed. By all means, skip the trial and take the 55 year old idiot to the execution chamber. While we are at it, reward the daughter for getting a boy killed and making her idiot dad who actually believed his daughter the bad guy. And of course if guns were outlawed, the boy would still be alive, unless of course dear old dad had something else as a weapon, like a golf club. I repeat, I never said the death was justified, but with the information as reported and released by the investigators and authorities, I feel the dad is not criminally liable, and it would be a stretch to find him negligent in a civil trial in my opinion. Personally, I feel the daughter is guilty of second degree murder. quote: a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life. When she told her father she did not know the boy, seeing her father armed with a gun, the only concern she had was for her appearance in her father's opinion. She did not give a damn about the boy, or what happened to the boy.

PeonForHer -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 3:20:30 PM)
quote: By all means, skip the trial and take the 55 year old idiot to the execution chamber. For me it'd be self-evident that the shooter go on trial. Gawd, JLF, there are shades between black and white, you know!

eulero83 -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 3:28:23 PM)
I quote from this quote: According to detectives, the man's daughter let Johran in the house and snuck him into her bedroom. Her younger brother went to say good night and saw two feet sticking out under the bed, detectives said. He then went to get his father. The father walked in and asked questions, but his daughter claimed to not know Johran. The father then called 911, but an argument ensued with the teenage boy. The father told deputies that Johran dropped his hands as if to grab something, so the man opened fire. The teen died at the scene. Again I have no direct experience with rape but I don't know how many victims of rape try to hide an unarmed aggressor when their younger brother comes to visit them. Now seriously they had conversation... he also called 911... I don't think the boy spent that time confirming he was an intruder assoulting the big, upset and armed man's daughter, I'm quite sure part of the discussion was meant to proof he knew the girl.

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