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Musicmystery -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 5:39:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


~ FR ~

Let me see if I have the non-disputed part of this story correct. An underage 16-year old girl invites a boy to sneak into her bedroom at night while her father is home, and the idiot thinks this is a good idea. Cue a Darwin Award right there.

The rest of the story seems clouded by conflicting reports, but even granting that stupidity is not a capital offense, it is often rewarded.

So as we rush to line up the people responsible for this little drama, let's not forget the role played by Johran McCormick himself, who knowingly snuck into a house uninvited by its owners in furtherance of a purpose which was against their will.

K.


Ah, no. He was invited and not against her will.

The 16 year old wasn't the homeowner, it was her parents house.

I know. He was holding a gun, so he's automatically right.

Get help.




deathtothepixies -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 5:45:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: PyrotheClown




We give the dead kid a pass cause he was 17, we give the girl a pass because she is 16,
we give his parents a pass cause doesn't everyone let their teenagers run around at 2am?
But we put the father under the microscope because he isn't psychic.


how many of us would be dead if this situation repeated itself on a regular basis?

how many teenagers would be dead if this was the normal, expected response?

American streets would be jammed with hearses full of dead kids if every time a father caught their daughter/ son in a compromising position they decided to shoot the other kid involved.

Pro gunners must be Olympic standard gymnasts given the number of hoops they jump through to justify all the unnecessary shooting that goes on

Does this imply that it is right to give everyone but the father a pass in spite of the fact that it was
their screw ups that created the situation?


oh ffs, 3 people were involved, 2 of them were teenagers, 1 was an adult. the teenagers were trying to have some fun ( remember being a teen, trying to screw, trying to have fun? ) and the adult shot one of them. Do you think he deserved to die?

Would shouting and screaming have been enough? would a punch or a threat have been enough? Would pointing the gun at him have been enough?

I know, now we get the mind reader bullshit...if the dad had stormed in and been shot it would have been the kids fault, but that's not what happened, it's the dads fault, he shot a kid fooling around with his daughter. It was a massive and fatal over reaction




smileforme50 -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 5:49:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

,.... especially since she apparently invited him in.

The shooter suffered a mental breakdown and was hospitalized after the shooting, there is no word on the condition of the daughter, who in my opinion is more responsible for the death than anyone else.

A unique variation on the theme of; 'she asked for it'.

I thought we had all progressed beyond that. Not for the first time it seems I am too optimistic.



Tweakabelle, and the rest of you who seem to think that the daughter has no part of the responsibility for what happened.

Am I to understand that in your opinion, it is an acceptable thing for a 16 year old girl to invite a male friend to her home and her bedroom at a time of night when she knows her parents will be asleep?

If your answer is yes, then we have some definite differences in what is acceptable behavior.

If your answer is no, then you have to find answers to the following:

1) would the boy have been in the room at that time of night if she had not invited him?
2) If he was there for purely innocent reasons, why then did the daughter initially deny she knew him?

And you want to tell me that by her asking the boy over at that time of night had nothing to do with the fact that the father found a boy in his daughter's room that she claimed she did not know and shot him, she had absolutely nothing to do with causing the situation?


I won't say that the girl had not responsibility in the matter....but then I'm also known for being a bit of a hard-ass on teenagers and how I think they should "know better". BUT.....by the same token.....the boy could have just as easily said "No...that's not a good idea....if your parents found us....we'd be in big trouble". In other words...it takes two to tango. BOTH the teens were responsible.

I can understand the father over-reacting....but then....this is also why I don't think everybody out there needs to have a gun. This is also why I don't like the idea of more people carrying guns with them. People just get overly brave....and stupid.




BamaD -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 5:54:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


~ FR ~

Let me see if I have the non-disputed part of this story correct. An underage 16-year old girl invites a boy to sneak into her bedroom at night while her father is home, and the idiot thinks this is a good idea. Cue a Darwin Award right there.

The rest of the story seems clouded by conflicting reports, but even granting that stupidity is not a capital offense, it is often rewarded.

So as we rush to line up the people responsible for this little drama, let's not forget the role played by Johran McCormick himself, who knowingly snuck into a house uninvited by its owners in furtherance of a purpose which was against their will.

K.


Ah, no. He was invited and not against her will.

The 16 year old wasn't the homeowner, it was her parents house.

I know. He was holding a gun, so he's automatically right.

Get help.

No that doesn't make him right.
You need to read the new posting standards because you just violated them.




jlf1961 -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 5:55:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

The father should be tried for manslaughter.

The 16 year old is guilty of being 16, and grounded for a month.
The 17 year old, also guilty of being 17, should be home, alive, scared after her father chased him out.

Not shot.

Spin this anyway you like. It's bullshit.


As I read the statute for second degree murder, once she told daddy she did not know the boy, she became culpable if he ended up harmed in any way.

Now the first thing daddy did was call 911, and was detaining the "intruder" when the discussion turned into an argument. So far, there is no justification for shooting the boy, agree? Hell there is no justification for beating the shit out of him with a golf club for that matter.

So you now have one pissed off father who is going under the information given him by his "innocent" daughter, who, according to the investigators on the case, and the authorities speaking to reporters, admitted to telling her father she did not know the young man.

Now, what do you base your opinion on that she is just guilty of being 16?

Her actions either directly or indirectly led to the death of a young man, who, for all intents and purposes was making a perfectly legal (under Texas statutory rape law) booty call.

Even with all the other factors, her inviting him over, him being in her room at 230 in the morning, there was no justification for the shooting.

It was only after she said she did not know the young man did the possible use of deadly force become justified under Texas law. Sorry but that is the way the law is written, and it is your basic "castle doctrine" based law concerning defending home and family.

Add to that, there is a "heat of passion" rider to the law, which all the defense has to prove was that he was either angry beyond the ability to control his actions, and he walks.

The same is true if a man came home and found his wife in bed with another man. If he kills her or her lover alone, it becomes second degree murder, or in the very least manslaughter. If both are killed, it is "in the heat of passion" and he is not guilty. The same is true for a woman coming home to find her husband in bed with another woman.

The simple fact is that when she lied, while they were waiting for cops to arrive, and he dropped his hand, the 55 year old man pulled the trigger, during a heated argument.

Should the 17 year old boy be dead, hell no. I never said he should be.

And the legal experts all agree that under the information he had at the time, there is no way he can be indicted, and if he is, the chance of a conviction is slim to some astronomically high number of less value than zero.

Need to point out to those blaming his parents about him running the streets at 230 in the morning, they believed that the young man was in New Orleans for spring break, and therefore not in town. It is kinda hard to control a teenager when you think he is out of town.

Does a 16 year old have the authority to invite someone over without the knowledge of her parents, no.

Sorry but as a minor, parents have final say on who and when someone can visit the teenager.

So we have the following facts.

1) Due to the one year age difference between her and him, the sex act would have been consensual, under the law.

2) The girl invited a boy over to her home at 2:30 in the morning, brought him into the house and her bedroom.

3) Little brother say the teens feet under the bed and told daddy, (what the fuck was little brother doing up at 230 in the morning.)

4) Daddy investigates and upon discovering the boy, dialed 911, after his daughter told him she did not know the teen.

5) While waiting for police, father, teen and daughter are in an argument concerning just what the hell was going on, daughter claiming she did not know the boy, boy claiming she is not telling the truth, probably very loudly and using some very colorful language to describe the girl that has her father pissed off and holding a gun on him, and daddy trying to figure out who is telling the truth.

6) Boy drops his hands/arms and dad pulls the trigger.

So in the end the fact is that a 17 year old is dead, daddy killed him going by what the daughter told him (as confirmed by the authorities) and the daughter is more than a little responsible.




BamaD -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 5:58:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: PyrotheClown




We give the dead kid a pass cause he was 17, we give the girl a pass because she is 16,
we give his parents a pass cause doesn't everyone let their teenagers run around at 2am?
But we put the father under the microscope because he isn't psychic.


how many of us would be dead if this situation repeated itself on a regular basis?

how many teenagers would be dead if this was the normal, expected response?

American streets would be jammed with hearses full of dead kids if every time a father caught their daughter/ son in a compromising position they decided to shoot the other kid involved.

Pro gunners must be Olympic standard gymnasts given the number of hoops they jump through to justify all the unnecessary shooting that goes on

Does this imply that it is right to give everyone but the father a pass in spite of the fact that it was
their screw ups that created the situation?


oh ffs, 3 people were involved, 2 of them were teenagers, 1 was an adult. the teenagers were trying to have some fun ( remember being a teen, trying to screw, trying to have fun? ) and the adult shot one of them. Do you think he deserved to die?

Would shouting and screaming have been enough? would a punch or a threat have been enough? Would pointing the gun at him have been enough?

I know, now we get the mind reader bullshit...if the dad had stormed in and been shot it would have been the kids fault, but that's not what happened, it's the dads fault, he shot a kid fooling around with his daughter. It was a massive and fatal over reaction

The kid grabbed for something and maybe tried to grapple the father, that is the final mistake that
got him shot.
Being young may explain him being stupid but it doesn't excuse it.
And we are back to everyone gets a pass but the father.




Musicmystery -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 5:59:17 PM)

See, guns have these trigger-thingies you have to pull to make them shoot. Responsible gun owners are aware of this, and treat them carefully.

But OK. Shoot the girl. Bitch had it coming.





deathtothepixies -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 6:00:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


And we are back to everyone gets a pass but the father.


no we're back to another dead kid




BamaD -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 6:02:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


And we are back to everyone gets a pass but the father.


no we're back to another dead kid

Because his parents let him run around all night.
Because he thought it was cool to sneak into her fathers house to (presumably) have sex
Because she invited him over
Because she lied about knowing him
Because the father was protecting his daughter
And some want to give everyone who set up the situation a pass and dump it all on the father
who was the second victim here.




Moonhead -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 6:06:13 PM)

Given that he's the one who put a bullet through the young thug, why on earth should he get a free pass?
They can't try his daughter as an accessory without trying him for murder or (more likely) manslaughter, and he's very unlikely to get sent down in any case, so what are you pissing and moaning about?




PeonForHer -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 6:06:42 PM)

quote:

Being young may explain him being stupid but it doesn't excuse it.


Actually, I think it does excuse it, pretty often, and certainly in this case.

Jesus. Young people have to grow up fast in the US, don't they? Mature double quick, or die.




BamaD -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 6:10:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Given that he's the one who put a bullet through the young thug, why on earth should he get a free pass?
They can't try his daughter as an accessory without trying him for murder or (more likely) manslaughter, and he's very unlikely to get sent down in any case, so what are you pissing and moaning about?

Actually , as pointed out earlier, thanks to her lie the father was led to believe
the situation was different than it was.
She could be tried for using her father as the weapon as it was her lie that precipitated the violence.




deathtothepixies -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 6:10:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

dump it all on the father
who was the second victim here.


Fucking hell!

There is only one victim here, the dead kid.

How complicated is it?




Musicmystery -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 6:13:39 PM)

Plus I hear insurance won't pay to replace the blood-stained carpet. And he's out the cost of the bullet.

After all, the kid had a cock pointed right at him!

Poor gun-totting victim dude. [:(]




BamaD -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 6:13:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Given that he's the one who put a bullet through the young thug, why on earth should he get a free pass?
They can't try his daughter as an accessory without trying him for murder or (more likely) manslaughter, and he's very unlikely to get sent down in any case, so what are you pissing and moaning about?

Besides I didn't say he should get a pass but neither shout the 17 year old, or the 16 year old.




Musicmystery -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 6:15:07 PM)

I'm pretty sure the dead 17 year old isn't getting a pass.

Someone will explain it to you.




BamaD -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 6:16:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

dump it all on the father
who was the second victim here.


Fucking hell!

There is only one victim here, the dead kid.

How complicated is it?

From seeing the number of people who can't see that the father, who was hospitalized, is also a victim
it must be very complicated. To much of he had a gun so he can't be a victim.




Musicmystery -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 6:17:11 PM)

"Mommy . . . where do fired bullets come from?"




deathtothepixies -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 6:25:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

dump it all on the father
who was the second victim here.


Fucking hell!

There is only one victim here, the dead kid.

How complicated is it?

From seeing the number of people who can't see that the father, who was hospitalized, is also a victim
it must be very complicated. To much of he had a gun so he can't be a victim.



"The shooter was taken to the hospital with a panic attack".

not because he was beaten and battered but presumably ( none of us know all the facts) because he was in some sort of trauma after killing a child.

Please don't try an spin the dad as a hospitalised victim in this.

The victim is the dead kid




jlf1961 -> RE: Another shooting of an unarmed teen... (3/17/2014 6:31:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

See, guns have these trigger-thingies you have to pull to make them shoot. Responsible gun owners are aware of this, and treat them carefully.

But OK. Shoot the girl. Bitch had it coming.





Music, please explain why, in your opinion, she has no responsibility for that teenager being dead?

Seriously, I am at a loss to understand your reasoning.

And at what point did the father become an irresponsible gun owner?

He was armed when he found the boy, and did not fire then, he called the police. Score one for the gun owner.
While waiting for the police, he tried to find out what the hell was going on from both the boy and his daughter. Score two for the gun owner.
The verbal altercation, described as an argument, got heated, and father still did not pull the trigger. Score three for gun owner.
17 year old either reaches for the gun or some other object, at this point gun owner fires and shoots the teen in the head. At this point, I am not sure if irresponsible applies or angry/panicked/ or just squeezed the trigger without thinking. Up to this point, he was more than responsible, form the statements, he seemed to have done just about everything he could to not shoot the boy.

So, without sarcasm, please explain how he was an irresponsible gun owner?


According to records, the father was on a number of medications, for what we do not know. For all we know he could have had a heart condition, therefore not physically capable of dealing with the 17 year old in a hand to hand confrontation.




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