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ORIGINAL: Marini

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ORIGINAL: njlauren

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ORIGINAL: Marini

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I don't know much about guns. I have a hard time imaging the rational reasons for owning an assault weapon, etc. Maybe you could explain it to me.

I would also like to hear a great reason for owning an assault weapon.

In my experience, there are two factors:
1)These guns look cool, and a bunch of men (and women) get their rocks off on looking like a bad ass navy seal or something by owning and shooting them (see one Lanza, Nancy)

2)With those guns, they are going to be able to take on the black helicopters and the government troops who are coming to force them into gay marriages and using unisex toilets (see militias, right wing)

Thanks for giving me a chuckle.

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ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

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ORIGINAL: njlauren

......a gun that is a semi automatic version of an AK47 or an AR15 that can shoot a hundred rounds a minute,......

.....a weapon that even in semi automatic mode can fire a hundred rounds a minute or more....

The bullshit gets even stupider. Does anyone really believe that crap ? I would like to see this demonstrated. However close to a minute you can manage to get, loading 3 more 30 round magazines firing a total of 100 rounds, I'd be interested to see how many of those rounds can hit 100 different targets.

The fact is, if someone is intent on committing mass murder with a gun, at a place where everyone is unarmed, it doesn't freakin matter what type of firearm you have. Most any type of weapon outside of the semi automatic class will suffice and create as much or more carnage.

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This thread is an excellent example of why women's suffrage and a free society cannot coexist.

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ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

The bullshit gets even stupider. Does anyone really believe that crap ? I would like to see this demonstrated. However close to a minute you can manage to get, loading 3 more 30 round magazines firing a total of 100 rounds, I'd be interested to see how many of those rounds can hit 100 different targets.

The fact is, if someone is intent on committing mass murder with a gun, at a place where everyone is unarmed, it doesn't freakin matter what type of firearm you have. Most any type of weapon outside of the semi automatic class will suffice and create as much or more carnage.

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ORIGINAL: Sanity

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ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

The bullshit gets even stupider. Does anyone really believe that crap ? I would like to see this demonstrated. However close to a minute you can manage to get, loading 3 more 30 round magazines firing a total of 100 rounds, I'd be interested to see how many of those rounds can hit 100 different targets.

The fact is, if someone is intent on committing mass murder with a gun, at a place where everyone is unarmed, it doesn't freakin matter what type of firearm you have. Most any type of weapon outside of the semi automatic class will suffice and create as much or more carnage.

Or just use a car or a truck as a weapon, or gasoline or propane, or swords, or derail a train...

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

no really???? or poison the water supply or hijack a tank, or fly a plane into a building, or make a pipe bomb.....or stab with a spork, or use poison gas on a subway, or a home made bomb at a stadium
are we having a game on how to kill multiple people???
I doubt you need viagra now boys

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

no really???? or poison the water supply or hijack a tank, or fly a plane into a building, or make a pipe bomb.....or stab with a spork, or use poison gas on a subway, or a home made bomb at a stadium
are we having a game on how to kill multiple people???
I doubt you need viagra now boys

Or just trick them into reading another gun thread on here so they die of boredom. ;-)

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ORIGINAL: LetstalkboutRAP3

The reason that the government wants to confiscate .223 and 7.62mm civilian variant firearms is because of their relatively light weight and low recoil. This allows WOMEN to effectively utilize those weapons in a combat situation while minimizing the likelihood of fatigue and injury. Removing them from the equation severly reduces the capacity of over half the population to serve in an infantry role during any sort of invasion or takeover from without or within.

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ORIGINAL: LetstalkboutRAP3
The reason that the government wants to confiscate .223 and 7.62mm civilian variant firearms is because of their relatively light weight and low recoil. This allows WOMEN to effectively utilize those weapons in a combat situation while minimizing the likelihood of fatigue and injury. Removing them from the equation severly reduces the capacity of over half the population to serve in an infantry role during any sort of invasion or takeover from without or within.

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The term "assult rife" is very misleading, it SOUNDS much, much scarier than "rifle". In reality, common "assault rifles" could more accurately be described as "sub-rifles". Full auto military issue firearms fall into three basic categories: machine guns (fully automatic rifles), submachine guns (fully automatic pistols), and assault rifles (fully automatic firearms which are more compact and fire rounds with a smaller powder charge than their larger cousins). Tactically, rifles work well best at long range, pistols at short range, and assault rifles at medium range. There is some overlap.

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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ORIGINAL: LetstalkboutRAP3
The reason that the government wants to confiscate .223 and 7.62mm civilian variant firearms is because of their relatively light weight and low recoil. This allows WOMEN to effectively utilize those weapons in a combat situation while minimizing the likelihood of fatigue and injury. Removing them from the equation severly reduces the capacity of over half the population to serve in an infantry role during any sort of invasion or takeover from without or within.

Oh dear God.
So whose sock are you?

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ORIGINAL: joether

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ORIGINAL: Mouth4Mistress
That is completely and blatantly false. There is a licensing system in EVERY state. It is impossible to procure a gun in a LEGAL manner in the United States, without going through some form of a check. ALL licensed dealers are required to run a background check - there goes 40-50% of the sales, and 40-50% of that argument. Even for private sales, you're required to either bring the sale to a licensed dealer (some states), or contact the state authorities with a request to approve the sale. In NO state are you allowed to knowingly sell to a convicted felon, or to a person with a court-ordered psychiatric treatment/commitment history.

And is that system uniform across all the states?

Or are some just more strict than others?

And that in itself is one of many of the problems encountered with this issue.

While dealers are not the problem, private sales are. That those can take place, off the radar, away from the beaten path, and STILL be considered legal in some states, should be worrying to anyone following the rules in good faith.

And while you are right, in that people can not knowing sell a firearm to a felon; how many are totally scrupulous? Even 1% of unscrupulous Americans is bad enough. While its fortunate that number is low (hopefully speaking), 'one bad apple can destroy the barrel' sort of mentality here. Demands for tighter security and processes come, as a result of it.

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ORIGINAL: Mouth4Mistress
The "gun show loophole" argument, which is repeated in the media over and over again, is simply bullshit. Here's one of many articles that explains it:

Washington Times: The Gun-Show Loophole Myth

'Gun Grabbers'? I find articles like this generally insulting and childish. Displays a real lack for being a professional writer. Be it as a report, editor, or op-piece. The article displays a sweeping number of fears and ignorances while at the same time attacking others for doing the exact same thing. The author had a chance of explaining the issue in a mature and honest manner, but resorted to name calling like a child. That's what I got out of the article. Was I suppose to learn something beyond being insulted?

To fix the problems, educating the public without the political slant is the first order of business. As all sides in this debate live on some fantasies mixed in with the evidence/facts. Explaining the nature of the problems is all together different from the history of how those problems came into the American culture. Deciding how to fix problems, improve systems, while allowing firearm ownership in a legal and safe manner, is a very hard task for this nation to perform successfully. It is entirely possible, if we, the citizens, wanted to.

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ORIGINAL: Mouth4Mistress

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...the loose gun laws in many states have led to tragedy, whether it was the crazy Korean kid in Virginia, or the 70% of guns pulled off the streets of NYC that were bought, legally, in a couple of states with notoriously lax laws.

That "crazy Korean kid" obtained his guns illegally. As in, he broke the law. So did Adam Lanza. Please explain how more laws would stop someone who intends on breaking or circumventing them anyway.

The Korean Kid obtained his arms legally. How he used them was also legal. Wait for the explanation....

Adam Lansa obtain the firearm he used in a legal manner as well. Ready?

In order for something to be...illegal....it has to be...found...illegal. Meaning, one has to be found in a court of law to be guilty of misusing a firearm in order for it to be illegal. Since in our form of government, all suspects are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. While neither should have had the ability to obtain the firearms, that would take two very different sets of laws to prevent (they are different characteristics in both episodes). Adam Lansa's mother, should NEVER, have been allowed a firearm, given the condition her child was in! And she paid a very heavy penalty for that foolish decision.

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ORIGINAL: Mouth4Mistress

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The same model IMO should be applied to guns. I think that people have the right to own guns, but there is also a strong case for regulation. You buy a gun and try selling it in the black market and it gets traced back to you, you are dead meat, and none of this "oh, I lost it" or "Oh, it was stolen bullshit"...if you didn't report it missing or stolen, then you are assumed to be liable.

Again, in many states, you ARE legally liable to report your firearm stolen to the police. States with mandatory loss/theft reporting requirements:

Connecticut
Delaware
District of Columbia
Illinois
Maryland
Massachusetts
Michigan
New Jersey
New York
Ohio
Rhode Island

Besides legal requirements, there are also civil penalties. As in, if your gun is lost or stolen, and you don't report it, and it's used in a crime, the victim's family can sue the hell out of you.

Hats off for answering this part in a factual and informative manner.

I feel it should be a requirement in all the states, not just those listed above. It makes one even more tempted to be unscrupulous when money is tight. This sort of attitude and action, cost legitimate and honest gun owners much in the way of credibility. That this might be adding to the 'gun show loop-hole' viewpoint that was not really addressed in that article you presented.

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ORIGINAL: Mouth4Mistress

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the position of the nutjobs at the NRA that guns should be without burdens is ludicrous, to say the least

It would be ludicrous if that was true. NRA Executive VP WayneLaPierre has REPEATEDLY said, in press and TV interviews, that the current system needs to be fixed rather than more laws being added to the already-unenforceable cluster****, and that the government REALLY needs to focus on mental health, which they seem to be completely ignoring at the present time.

The NRA really has created more problems than its solved to date. By being the lobbying arm of the Gun Industry, the only people they fool are the same folks that by memberships. In order to 'revamp' the system as Mr. LaPierre states, WOULD BE, adding laws onto the books. Again, this is how our form of government operates. For a law to be updated with new language, requires a new law to be passed that removes the old language and gives the updated language. There are a number of laws that could be updated to help things run more efficient. There are some laws that just don't work, and might be best in removing. And there are some ideas that could improve things, but would requiring adding those into law. As you might understand, both sides of this debate want their views to become 'the law of the land' over anyone else's.

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ORIGINAL: Mouth4Mistress
"We have a mental health system in this country that has completely and totally collapsed. We have no national database of these lunatics." - LaPierre on NBC's "Meet The Press", shortly after the Navy Yard shooting.

Mr. LaPierre, like the grand majority of Americans, really has no understanding of the mental and emotional health of Americans. There is no way to detect suicidal depression except through careful observation by someone trained to handle that sort of diagnosis. Most adults, that have depression, for example, may not even realize the illness is the true reason why life is sucking in their viewpoint(s). So obtaining treatment never comes up. Sadly, only after some moment, the person 'snaps', that most people 'understood' the warning signs. And that's only after the tragedy has taken place. There is no simple test, or pill, or even pray that will fix mental and/or emotional problems. It takes time, under the care of a trained professional, maybe with medication, to help an individual recover from depression.

One question that is often asked of depression suffers is "Do you access to firearms"? They are not asking because they are liberal and want to remove the guns; but to keep the patient safe. Most people that do not have depression, or a direct caregiving understand how depression affects the mind. While there are many ways one could kill themselves, firearms prove (sadly speaking) to be the most efficient manner. If a firearm is used, the person is 90% likely to succeed verse about 9-14% with all other methods.

Ever talk down someone with a loaded firearm, the intense desire to just...end it....and not understanding why they are in this state. It is not easy. While removing them from the gun is a good thing, in the greater picture, its only a tiny part of the full recovery.

Troubling here, is that while mass shooters have taken place by individuals suffering from one or more mental/emotional problems. Many others were not performed by someone with such impairments. Since healthy, normal (normal from a psychological point of view) people do kill each other is common. It would be logically to ask what sort of things are causing people to use firearms in this manner. As has been seen, someone wielding a knife can not cause as much destruction then if they had a firearm in the same time period.

So trying to weigh 'safety of the individual' with 'safety of the community' is not an easy problem to solve. Nor is it simple to understand.

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ORIGINAL: Mouth4Mistress
"We think it's reasonable to provide mandatory instant criminal background checks for every sale at every gun show" - LaPierre to House Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, in 1999.

etc, etc.

There's the media bullshit stance that the NRA is a bunch of slavering lunatics, and there are the FACTS.

Mr. LaPierre once stated that, is true. He doesn't state that in 2014. The stance he had in 1999 is about as different, as the Republican Party's stances on a wide range of issues right now.

There are lunatics on all sides. Making the ability of improving this concept, all the harder. There are lunatics in the NRA just as there are some in the 'Brady against Gun Violence' group. Some are prominent members of both organizations; most are not. That this nation is can not move forward because of the extreme views is a primary problem. That Gun Owners, and Concern Citizens can not get together, fix the problems, and move forward as a whole, is troubling. Those two groups out number the 'Gun Nuts' and 'Gun Controllers' nearly four to one!

Sadly, I think we as a nation will experience many more horrible moments in which firearms are used to maim and kill, before, we as a nation come to terms with things and try to make the nation better.

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Why was he allowed a gun with a restraining order against him? how many innocent people have to die at the hands of disgruntled people armed with a gun????